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11-28-2013, 05:18 PM - 1 Like   #601
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Be careful when reading reviews, many of them get important things quite wrong as they rush to get their reviews out and drawing traffic / earning ad revenue.
You even have to be careful of YouTube video 'tests' as there's no way to actually prove the video you see was shot by the camera they say it was shot with. Stick with known and trusted camera reviewers like Chris and Jordan (TheCameraStoreTV), Blunty (DigiDirect) and Ed (photouniverse).

Also, download the PDF manuals and study them, read threads and posts by people who own the camera. I only use review sites for sample JPG/PEF/DNG images - anything else isn't of much interest to me - which is why I read forum posts from people who actually have a K-3.

11-29-2013, 05:53 AM   #602
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
And regarding that plant: on 60i, it was nicely stabilised. I don't understand how come?
Does anyone know? I'd like to find out. And i'm not sure what the implications are of shooting 60i...
11-29-2013, 03:06 PM   #603
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60i has been part of the ntsc standard for decades... the video signal is recorded into two fields; odd scan lines in one field, even scan lines in the other field... on the old crt televisions, it was displayed as odd/even fields.

of course, no lcd/plasma monitor/tv can display odd/even fields, so it's kind of funny to see nearly all tv signals broadcast like that, and to have video recorded as 60i... but that's how most camcorders still do it.

when the 60i fields are combined into 30p frames, you'll lose picture resolution(compared to shooting in 60p/30p mode).

however, 60i can look very good; for instance, the picture quality of 60i broadcast tv is much better than any cable/satellite signal in america... that's largely due to the increased bitrate you get with free broadcast television.

k-3 60i video appears to be avchd, the same thing that many camcorders use; if it's compressed right after editing, it can look very good.

i think that the far bigger concern is how you as the shooter handle the k-3, especially wrt the typical dslr jellocam problems... another thing to look at is shutter speed, to help mask issues with panning and such:
11-29-2013, 11:08 PM   #604
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You CAN convert 60i to 60p with VERY good results... in most cases you won't be able to spot the difference. However that is extremely CPU intensive... even at PAL resolution on a fast PC it will take a while. And if you don't deinterlace... 50i/60i just looks bad.


Interestingly the Panasonic HC-X900M, a rather expensive consumer camera from Panasonic from the 2012 season seems to do some crazy interlacing/deinterlacing stuff... IIRC shooting at 50p you will get 50i deinterlacing artefacts. But that's OT.


I have uploaded a raw video I've shot last week with my K-5 and the 18-55 at 18mm. Basically I'm walking up some stairs at a restaurant, and then just walking towards my table. I didn't pay much attention on panning smoothly (and slowly), so the 25p and lack of (easily accessible) shutter speed control really shows it's ugly face. The only stabilizing equipment used was the built in SR system and my Rieker shoes with Antistress feature. With my Puma sneakers it would probably look a bit different, they don't absorb bumps as good as the Rieker. I also held the camera a bit higher than I would usually, around the same height as my chin is. That seems to help a bit too.


I must say that aliasing can be a very big problem, as well as moire, and the low frame rate can be quite problematic too (my monitor also seems to exaggerate it with the overdrive system...). I have seen better cameras in those regards. So if you have stabilizing gear anyway, other cameras may make more sense. But if you don't have/don't want to use those things...

This video was shot at 200mm (so after crop it's 300). It starts with some panning, after that I'm trying to hold it steady while some airport staff is throwing around and smashing luggage.

My observations are there IS rolling shutter when I pan quickly, but it just doesn't wobble around. So this sort of rolling shutter artifact might be fixed in post (there is a feature for that in Premiere Pro CS6?). Also, at 200mm holding the camera steady is a bit of the challenge. It works best when holding the tip of the lens with one hand (which I wasn't doing, at least not while focusing. Can't remember how I did it the rest of the time). Stabilizing works, but it can't do wonders. I didn't notice wobble, though there is motion blur and some shakiness due to the SR not being able to keep up. The shakiness might be fixed in post with stabilization plugins, if the shutter speed is short enough. Might try that one day... Also there is little of the panning back after a pan that some have observed... perhaps it is more likely to happen/visible when shooting with a wide angle lens? I do notice it sometimes when shooting at 18mm.


Ok, I've also stabilized the second video using the warp stabilizer at default settings. It pretty much looks like what you'd expect from a K-01/K-3, without the wobbling. Not sure if that is because Adobe is able to reduce rolling shutter, or because rolling shutter was already eliminated by SR system (during the fast pans there is still lots of rolling shutter). The occasional motion blur is there, and very badly so. Otherwise the video is of course smoother, but personally I think I'd rather have it jerk around a little than to have these weird artifacts.


Last edited by kadajawi; 11-30-2013 at 05:06 AM.
12-07-2013, 03:16 AM   #605
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I have made a test of SR on K-01, K-5IIs, K-3
I can not say K-3 stabilization is much better or much worse.
12-07-2013, 01:02 PM   #606
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QuoteOriginally posted by CtrlAltDel_ru Quote
I have made a test of SR on K-01, K-5IIs, K-3
I can not say K-3 stabilization is much better or much worse.
Video SR test (K-01, K-5IIs, K-3) - YouTube
Thanks !
Good test in tele - wide angle is to slow for this test

K-3 is by far the best ... K-5 just wobbles terribly as usual ! (just like K-7)
(AF is a nuisance, btw.)
12-07-2013, 01:14 PM   #607
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
K-3 is by far the best
I agree
12-07-2013, 02:18 PM   #608
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the proof is in the eating
walked around in my dad's garden as if i was a tourist.
All shots handheld with SR on

ignore the under/over exposures...



Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/75-video-pentax-hdslrs/244233-test-video-...#ixzz2mpHeEKPh

12-07-2013, 09:09 PM   #609
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QuoteOriginally posted by CtrlAltDel_ru Quote
I have made a test of SR on K-01, K-5IIs, K-3
I can not say K-3 stabilization is much better or much worse.
Video SR test (K-01, K-5IIs, K-3) - YouTube
Ok... so the K-5 does move back a bit after a pan, while the others don't. You'd only notice it when you look for it though, and it looks to me like something they could have fixed in the firmware with some more sophisticated algorithms... which they probably have in the K-01 and K-3, since those SHOULD have the same problem, unless Pentax is using a more sophisticated algorithm there. Basically I think they could just port that over to a mechanical system.


In this case, perhaps due to faster shutter speeds the K-3 looked rather good... but you just can't always do that. The K-5 corrects less than the others, but it doesn't have the artifacts. To me I'd rather have less artifacts... the warp stabilizer can take care of the last bit of shake IF necessary (though that might put back some artifacts, but I'd expect less than you'd get by relying on a fully electronic system.


Warp stabilizer is a more sophisticated system than the electronic SR used in the K-3... and it can analyze the whole video to smooth it out perfectly, rather than having to guess where you are going to go. The only disadvantage is a slight loss in resolution compared to the built in systems, and that it can get confused by objects moving in front of the camera (while the camera thanks to accelerometer data can avoid it... it would be great if the camera could also record that data, and whatever stabilizing software you want to use can make use of the data). But combining warp and mechanical SR seems to be the way to go for me, as you get a sort of stable video into the camera, with less artifacts, and the electronic SR in the computer will take care of the rest.


Ok, a couple of days ago I had the K-3 in my hands for a short while. We were mostly trying out some bug (?) in combination with the DA 50 1.8, but for a short while I also put in my SD card and took a short video to test the stabilizing system. On the screen there didn't seem to be any stabilization when I shaked the camera left/right a bit... or at least very little. I've just looked at the footage though... and it looks stabilized. Very stabilized. And absolutely awful. lots of jello, blurrying, ... Obviously you wouldn't shoot like that in real life, but... a K-5 wouldn't look like that. And if it falls apart so badly in that test, chances are it will also, to a lesser degree, in real life.

Last edited by kadajawi; 12-07-2013 at 10:03 PM.
12-08-2013, 06:06 AM   #610
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Ok... so the K-5 does move back a bit after a pan, while the others don't. You'd only notice it when you look for it though, and it looks to me like something they could have fixed in the firmware with some more sophisticated algorithms... which they probably have in the K-01 and K-3, since those SHOULD have the same problem, unless Pentax is using a more sophisticated algorithm there. Basically I think they could just port that over to a mechanical system.

In this case, perhaps due to faster shutter speeds the K-3 looked rather good... but you just can't always do that. The K-5 corrects less than the others, but it doesn't have the artifacts. To me I'd rather have less artifacts... the warp stabilizer can take care of the last bit of shake IF necessary (though that might put back some artifacts, but I'd expect less than you'd get by relying on a fully electronic system.
I find the jello/swaying in the electronic stabilization more disconcerting than any judderyness in the mechanical stabilization, the latter being something I find I can avoid in my K-5 video with careful panning, and/or largely correct in post production. I'd like to see K-5 vs. K-3 comparisons all done at the kind of slow/careful panning that I do, slowest at the start and end of pans; all the test videos I've seen to far seem to focus on unfeasibly fast or sudden panning of the kind that I for one would not do and expect to see good results. We now know the limitations of both systems so it would be good to see what can be achieved handheld within each camera's limits, but with similar 'as smooth as possible' panning techniques used for each, rather than attempting to test the limits.

Last edited by Dave L; 12-08-2013 at 06:16 AM.
12-09-2013, 08:28 AM   #611
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dave L Quote
all the test videos I've seen to far seem to focus on unfeasibly fast
or sudden panning of the kind that I for one would not do and expect to see good results.
If you watched that video of the green pool in the forest and the old house,
you could see most pans were very slow and not as fast as you described it.
(You really saw it ?) This kind of roll-back is completely unacceptable of course.
No need to be indifferent.

That quicker tree-to-house-pan could to be avoided, with SR on
but it shows what is happening there mechanically, and with usual
cameras that speed of course is acceptable (and without SR too)

I won't use the SR anymore - while panning with my K-7 - same for K-5
(Or will try to learn new ways of moving, which I doubt now will really work)

The K-3 does the panning-job much better seen in that private-room up above.
(I would have switched to that software-SR while panning if this always works so well)

In my K10 I do have a switch for SR at the camera-body. A shame they put that down.
Nowadays - with two ways of SR possible - and the third choice to simply put it off,
this switch would be the only way to satisfy the user when in search for stabilisation.
12-09-2013, 02:54 PM   #612
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
In my K10 I do have a switch for SR at the camera-body. A shame they put that down.
Nowadays - with two ways of SR possible - and the third choice to simply put it off,
this switch would be the only way to satisfy the user when in search for stabilisation.
On the K-3, you can program the RAW/Fx-button to turn SR on and off. I wish they would add that to my K-5 with a firmware update!
12-09-2013, 06:25 PM   #613
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
If you watched that video of the green pool in the forest and the old house,
you could see most pans were very slow and not as fast as you described it.
(You really saw it ?) This kind of roll-back is completely unacceptable of course.
Thank you and yes, I remember it now! But it looks jerky at times when viewing the pans on Youtube in a browser so I downloaded the 720p version and hey presto! No jerkiness in VLC Player! The green pool pan and most of the others I find to be acceptable with the mechanical K-7 shake reduction but there is of course that "roll-back" effect at the end of all but the very slowest pan and tilts (though oddly, it didn't bother me).

I was interested to see what happened when running your video through the software shake reduction in Powerdirector 12, so I tried it. I set it at the maximum that allowed all your captions to remain on screen, 75%, and haven't tried any of the other settings. Obviously, as a third generation re-encode via a low-bitrate Youtube 720p video there is a loss of definition but I hope you don't mind if I share it with you? I uploaded it anyway and will remove it if you wish.

I found that some parts were improved, some were the same and in a few sections, it was slightly worse but I think it's good to have the option to apply software SR to all *or parts* of a mechanical SR video. I think that's why I prefer mechanical SR but I don't know if computer software SR on top of camera software SR would work as well. If you can download my file, the differences show up most clearly when playing both versions side by side and synchronized, in two instances e.g. of VLC Player.


Last edited by Dave L; 12-10-2013 at 04:47 AM. Reason: Updated video title
12-09-2013, 07:29 PM   #614
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Doesn't software SR need extra resolution?
It's too bad you can't save whatever readout the chip had so you can do SR on your desktop.
H.264's next resolution up from 1080p is apparently 2,560◊1,920 which I doubt the K-3 is doing :-P
H.264/MPEG-4 AVC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
12-09-2013, 07:46 PM   #615
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Doesn't software SR need extra resolution?
It's too bad you can't save whatever readout the chip had so you can do SR on your desktop.
H.264's next resolution up from 1080p is apparently 2,560◊1,920 which I doubt the K-3 is doing :-P
H.264/MPEG-4 AVC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You lose a bit, depending on how much has to be corrected and how you set it, but it can work without being very noticeable.
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