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12-11-2013, 09:48 PM   #631
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Or quit screwing around with a still camera form factor and get something purpose-built for ultra res video that's available now, like a BMCC, along with a real, robust stabilization system rather than a jury-rigged solution.

I LOVE Pentax DSLRs, but a viable serious video platform they ain't, nor will they ever likely be, given the inherent tradeoffs inherent in what is essentially a "bonus" feature in any high-end enthusiast DSLR. Heck, after the initial 5d2 excitement, the warts of even Canon's vaunted video-capable DSLRs have become increasingly apparent over time, leading to the new focus on dedicated EOS video cams among Canon-oriented pros and other serious videographers.
For me video is just a bit of fun, it's nothing serious at this point. Stills is what I really need. Of course having a better tool for video would be nice, but I wouldn't invest in it.

12-11-2013, 10:49 PM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
Thanks !
Yes, the only thing better about the K-5 seems to be the full HD resolution.
K-5II is just the same as K-5 in every video-function ? Nobody knows ... ?

I have watched the 720p to be the reason for superimposing a certain pattern
while being scaled up / magnified / to the Full-HD-screen.
So the image of the K-5 looks better, more detailed, and more smooth.
If the K-5 full bitrate really is just as high as the for the K-7 that's good news.

Anything else will just be as poor as for the K-7. I do get that right that nothing is worse ?
Alliasing I have too quite heavily in my K-7 - so that must be same also ... ?

The K-5 can only be a step inbetween Pentax and a Lumix GH3 for example ... yes, I know.
But to get minimal access to a parfocal fast MFT-glass, will be another 700,- Ä just for one
wide-angle-zoom-lense ... and another 800,- for a fast tele-zoom ... I must earn this first.

With a used K-5(or5II) I can use my old Pentax-glasses. And with adapters I guess not all functions
really get transported towards the MFT-body, I guess. And I would run out of a good wide-angle then.

---

About polarization filter and variable ND-filter I didn't get the difference here, kadajawi.
I got no variable ND filter- but just a pole-filter (two glasses in that as well) You mean
the difference is in userfriendlyness - you are talking about the differentiated steps I guess.
But it sounds as if the principle is just the same ?
And if I buy the right filter I don't think there sholud be anything disturbing in the corners.
Right ?
You wrote:
A variable ND filter is 2 polarized filters stacked on top of each other. They may be thicker than your variable ND filter though,
so when shooting wide angle you may see the corners of the filters. Also I suppose variable ND filters are more user friendly?
I'm not sure about the K-5 and K-5 II being identical... they should be AFAIK, according to what Pentax is supposed to have changed. But... if they actually are...? At this point I'd rather get a K-5 II though, for the better AF. What features would you like to have transported over to the mFT body? The crop is different, that's the major difference. And you will lose AF, not a big deal if you ask me cause the normal CDAF systems are pretty useless with these big sensors (they work, but you can really see them at work. With video cameras it seems less obvious, even though they too use such a system...). Apertures could be an issue, not sure about that. But there are plenty of people using Pentax glass on their Panasonic... basically for video shooting all those automatic features aren't too important.
12-13-2013, 07:22 AM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The wobble near the end is quite bad...
Yes, this video is full of wobbles - but why ?

Did he / did you / put SR on while shooting on tripod ?
Is that wobbling the usual jello in this camera ? ... Really ?

I just don't get it why all footage of Pentax K-01/-30/-3 is that unstable.
But I start doubting my own sanity to still ask these things in despair.

And the owner of that camera is even proud on what he got out of it.
So let's just keep quite - we may just be on the wrong marriage here.
I doubt I will get more answers, and: I don't just want be a Ney-sayer.
12-13-2013, 09:45 AM   #634
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
Yes, this video is full of wobbles - but why ?

Did he / did you / put SR on while shooting on tripod ?
Is that wobbling the usual jello in this camera ? ... Really ?

I just don't get it why all footage of Pentax K-01/-30/-3 is that unstable.
But I start doubting my own sanity to still ask these things in despair.

And the owner of that camera is even proud on what he got out of it.
So let's just keep quite - we may just be on the wrong marriage here.
I doubt I will get more answers, and: I don't just want be a Ney-sayer.
I haven't rewatched the video, but sure he used a tripod?


Almost every camera has rolling shutter problems (since most use CMOS now, even dedicated video cameras, and only very few have a global shutter). Usually it is hidden though, either through the whole picture shaking anyway, or through optical/mechanical stabilization. But if you shoot with a K-5 without SR, and then use a computer to stabilize it, you will get bad wobbling.

12-15-2013, 12:11 AM   #635
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12-15-2013, 09:44 PM   #636
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Why aren't those motorbikes moving?
12-15-2013, 09:45 PM   #637
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Long time lapse?
12-15-2013, 11:38 PM   #638
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Why aren't those motorbikes moving?
That's how good the K-3 shake reduction is... It even freezes time!

12-16-2013, 10:36 PM   #639
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QuoteQuote:
Or quit screwing around with a still camera form factor and get something purpose-built for ultra res video that's available now, like a BMCC, along with a real, robust stabilization system rather than a jury-rigged solution.

I LOVE Pentax DSLRs, but a viable serious video platform they ain't, nor will they ever likely be, given the tradeoffs inherent in what is essentially a "bonus" feature in any high-end enthusiast DSLR. Heck, after the initial 5d2 excitement, the warts of even Canon's vaunted video-capable DSLRs have become increasingly apparent over time, leading to the new focus on dedicated EOS video cams among Canon-oriented pros and other serious videographers.
Ah,... But.
Anyone 'serious' enough to want the BMD-CC won't be using the SR systems anyway, they'll be using a shoulder mount rig or a tripod.

THE BMD-CC has a Rolling Shutter sensor, it's skew is about the same as the 5D3.

And yes, the EOS-C range uses the same sensors as the the DSLR range, but IMHO they are extremely over priced for what they are. Yes they have advantages, but if you need to spend that much money on a Canon for good footage, you'd be better off buying several XF-105 and XF-305 series cameras.

Or a second hand XL-H1s with the EOS to XL mount adaptor.

For price point, for those of us Video Shooters who have a bag full of K-mount lenses, don't use SR, don't use AF, the K3 is looking very good, with the exceptions of the on-board CoDec and HDMI Clean Feed.
At it's price point, there is very little else that can compete with it.
And the BMD-PC is out of the running until they fix it's firmware to get ride of the White Orb issue.
12-17-2013, 03:06 AM   #640
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I've been watching this thread for a while now, and figured I might jump in.
I got my K3 when they first landed in Aus. I'm a budding video shooter and produce a lot of short media productions for my church.
Previously I've owned both the K5 and K5II, but found the video time limit a real pain to work with when shooting interviews, plus they overheated quite often when shooting handheld. Not ideal :P
From there I bought an Olympus EM5, which has killer stabilisation, but couldn't work with the limited frame rates and funky audio issues. The codec was pretty lame too, with footage breaking up with any fast movement.
When I heard about the K3 with improved video, I took a shot. I can safely say it was worth it. The limitations the K3 has are far easier to work around than any of the other cameras I've used. My kit of nice M lenses are stunning for giving my video that certain look. I will be adding more though :P
SR isn't a big deal for me. As I've progressed in my video skill, handheld footage grows tiring and properly panned or dolley'd scenes look far more appealing.
I will add this though: Mechanical SR is functional in live view mode for stills. I noticed this today as I was tinkering and pondered why not for video?
12-17-2013, 05:55 AM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by JonDawg Quote
K5 and K5II ... video time limit a real pain to work with
... they overheated quite often when shooting handheld.
... limitations the K3 has are far easier to work around than any of the other cameras I've used.
You are very right about those nasty limitations ...
but those K-5'ers have a good strong codec - K-3 is weaker there.
In K-3 many things have been done better - but still no display-flap helps.

SR-wobble / rolling shutter / "AF-trembling" and what not ... are mixed sometimes here.
I show you a movie with a rolling shutter starting at minute 1:30 Bad but quite good:
Watch and enjoy the best DSLM yet:


12-17-2013, 08:40 PM   #642
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Ah,... But.
Anyone 'serious' enough to want the BMD-CC won't be using the SR systems anyway, they'll be using a shoulder mount rig or a tripod.
Exactly what I meant by "robust stabilization system"

QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
THE BMD-CC has a Rolling Shutter sensor, it's skew is about the same as the 5D3.
Yet it still has better skew characteristics than any SLR/mirrorless still camera platform currently available. In native 2.5k (without a kludged, unsupported firmware).

QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
And yes, the EOS-C range uses the same sensors as the the DSLR range, but IMHO they are extremely over priced for what they are. Yes they have advantages, but if you need to spend that much money on a Canon for good footage, you'd be better off buying several XF-105 and XF-305 series cameras.
Agreed about the price on the EOS-Cs, but do you really want the teensy tiny sensors and non-inerchangeable lenses of the XFs, especially when large sensors and interchangeable lenses are the whole reasons SLR video took off in the First place, given the other massive tradeoffs in ergonomics, accessory costs, etc.?


QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
For price point, for those of us Video Shooters who have a bag full of K-mount lenses, don't use SR, don't use AF, the K3 is looking very good, with the exceptions of the on-board CoDec and HDMI Clean Feed.
At it's price point, there is very little else that can compete with it.
BMCC is only $2k, and can support manual K glass either the EOS or m4/3 mount versions. Plus you get 2.5k video, record straight to SSHD, native CinemaDNG, pro color grading software, uncompressed HDMI, no sensor overheating, etc. etc. I'd say if you are serious about video, the extra $500-$700 is well worth it.


At this point, the BM pocket cam is basically a consumer-grade HD camcorder with a few extra features and really doesn't belong in a discussion about serious video cams. But then again neither does the K-3. It's an excellent stills cam, but a marginal video tool.
12-18-2013, 03:40 AM   #643
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I also like to talk on other subjects as well ...
There are other cameras we all look up to ...

But there must be some of us who looked
deeper into the K-3 ... some may have even
worked with a K-5 before ...

Please show what you learned by doing
with the new K-3 "video camera". Thanks !
12-25-2013, 08:09 AM   #644
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Ok, so I've had the chance to see more real life Sony alpha 57 footage. Moire/aliasing is a big problem too, I'd say like the K-5, and probably the K-3. The electronic IS seems to work ok in bright daylight with short shutter speeds (though that also means you get sturrery motion at 25 fps, or even at 50 fps), when it gets darker it falls apart. I didn't notice much wobble, perhaps the software actually corrects for that, to a certain degree. I would have to actually test the camera to see if that is the case. So it does seem to do a better job than the K-3. It seems to, occasionally, do the "overshoot" thing when panning. Not sure if it is better or worse than the K-5, but at least this suggests that it stabilizes immediately, based on sensor data rather than image analysis (which is what the Pentaxes do, and which IMHO isn't as good as it can be easily confused and lead to ugly results). However it's still unuseable due to the random stationary motion blur... and there is no way electronic IS can fix that, unless they do the de-shaking that is in Photoshop CC 25 to 50 times a second in the camera. Not going to happen anytime soon I suppose.


Though it would be very interesting if we could have that for stills... maybe to give the camera an extra boost? i.e. the mechanical IS will fix it as good as possible, and the software can then use the sensor data, substract what the SR system could remove already and do the rest in software! It'd crop depending on how much more you've shaken the camera, but that is probably better than a blurry photo. Imagine handheld tele shots at 1/10 By using the actual movement data recorded by the camera this could work much better than something like Photoshop... and perhaps be rather trivial).



What else... the a57 seems to apply quite a bit of sharpening, which does make it look quite video-like (as opposed to the rather film-like K-5). Not sure if you can fix this in the settings. The built in microphone is much better than what we have in the K-5. Video AF is ridiculously fast, and spot on (on whatever the camera thinks should be in focus ). One problem is that there are only a couple of PDAF sensors, so if the object you're tracking is moving out of the sensor coverage it will focus on something else. Also, the AF motor is being moved too fast. It's too noticeable.

Btw. I followed a small dog today with my K-5, just the K-5 being held closely above the ground, no stabilization apart from the built in SR. Sometimes I was moving quite fast. The video looks pretty good. I keep getting impressed by what the K-5 can do, if you manage to keep the range of movement small. Many quick and small movements/jerks it will perfectly stabilize.

Last edited by kadajawi; 12-25-2013 at 08:17 AM.
12-27-2013, 02:08 AM   #645
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Ok, so I've had the chance to see more real life Sony alpha 57 footage.
Have you had a chance to play with the avchd files in post? I wonder if you consider it to be easier in grading than H264? If any different...
And in comparison to the GH series? (disregarding SR, AF,... just IQ-wise)

I'm asking because I bought an A77 (basically the same as A57 for video) before the K3 came out. Now, with a K3, a k01 and an A77, I feel tempted to sell the A77, now that it still has value..
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