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10-08-2013, 02:04 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake14mw Quote
I think we need to see how real IQ and AF results before we declare the K-3 the only pro level APS-c body. I hope they turn out to be pro level.AF is not pro level
I agree regarding the AF needs to be tested....but regarding IQ I think the K-3 no doubt will have much better IQ than the D300s which was considered a prolevel APS-C

10-08-2013, 02:19 PM   #17
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Funnily, I don't regard autofocus as a "pro" feature at all....
10-08-2013, 03:52 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
The K-3 is THE only pro level aps-c body right now. The question is, does pentax have the pro level lenses to match? I contend they do not until they address the SDM issue. If they already have, then they need something more official than some second hand wishy washy leak.
This is the exact reason I've been avoiding SDM lens. If they put a 5 year warranty on it, I'll order 3-4 today. It's that simple.
10-08-2013, 04:19 PM - 1 Like   #19
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By Thom K-3 (aka Nikon D400 :) )

This is a very interesting take on the K-3 by Thom; jealous of Pentax -- all good stuff.
He rightly cans the flash 1/180th, but otherwise is impressed.

Meanwhile, Meet the Pentax D400 | byThom | Thom Hogan

QuoteQuote:
While Nikon dithers on replacing the D300s, we're slowly seeing other companies sneaking into the high-end APS territory. Today it's Ricoh with the Pentax K-3. 24mp, 8.3fps, an improved AF system, a Nikon-style metering sensor, dustproof and weather-resistent construction in a full metal body frame, and USB 3.0 support, all with the usual Pentax straight-forward controls and design. Oh, and throw in some extras, including a sensor-based stabilization system that can also vibrate to simulate an anti-aliasing effect (the sensor filtration doesn't have an AA component to it). All for a body cost of US$1300.


Before the Pentax folk get too cocky: 1/180 flash sync is an issue for some, and once again we have a camera maker who isn't listening to serious users about which bracketing variations would be most useful (no 1 or 2 stop bracket steps, only 1/3 and 1/2). There's also no built-in WiFi or EyeFi card support (only a strange new proprietary Flucard support; why the camera makers keep re-inventing the wheel I don't know, and most of the time they make the wheel less round when they do so).
I've long written that Pentax has a more logical and interesting prime lens set for APS than Nikon does for DX. I suspect a lot of those primes are going to go to back-order status soon if the K-3 gets any traction in the market.



Nikon's long replacement cycle on the D400 is now to the point where a lot of the audience is slowly drifting elsewhere. The lack of top end DX lenses doesn't give anyone any confidence that Nikon actually understands the high-end DX user. So let me put it as plainly as I can: people want a top DX (or as in the case of the Pentax K-3, APS) system for a reason: everything scales. Size, weight, and price. Sure, the D800 is a great camera. Now stick the f/2.8 or f/4 zooms on it and add up the size, weight, and price. You've left a lot of folk out of the market for a top-end, serious camera. I know a lot of college sports shooters and other pros who are using DX for those reasons: size, weight, and price. They can't afford a full out FX system, nor do they want to travel with one given the airline carry-on hassle we get these days.
Put another way, Nikon either doesn't see a whole group of users, or has chosen to ignore them for a long while. That's not how you defend your position as one of the top two DSLR makers.


Every time we get another launch from someone else or even a new Nikon DSLR that isn't a D300 replacement, a few of those previously dead loyal Nikon users start making other decisions. Sometimes they stick with a Nikon, but I'm seeing more and more of them pick something else. The remaining D300 and D300s users are not currently a happy crowd, yet from 2007 to 2009 they were amongst the most vocal in telling people how great Nikon DSLRs were. Here's the thing: the more time passes, the more impressive a D400 is going to have to be. Hope you've got something great in the wings, Nikon.


10-08-2013, 04:45 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Thom Hogan:
once again we have a camera maker who isn't listening to serious users about which bracketing variations would be most useful (no 1 or 2 stop bracket steps, only 1/3 and 1/2)
What does this even mean? I can bracket using +/-1 or +/-2 steps all day long on the K-5.

EDIT: Ah, never mind. I see people have beaten this subject to death already on this other thread.
10-08-2013, 04:58 PM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by CypherOz Quote
He rightly cans the flash 1/180th, but otherwise is impressed.
It would take a complete shutter system re-design to incorporate a 1/250th sync speed:


Pentax K5IIs @ 1/250th synch speed -Sigma 180mm f/3.5 APO EX DG Elinchrom BRX 500 flash with a Nikon D4 used to send the sync signal.

Let us just be content that Ricoh/Pentax has added some significant upgrades to the AF system.
10-08-2013, 07:30 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by ducdao Quote
I thought the Nikon 7100 was meant to be the successor of D300/D300s series.
Nah, Nikon butched it up by giving it crappy fps, which the Pentax D400 delivers in spades. Nikon likes to play this game they eliminate one or two critical functions out of a lower tier camera body so that you buy the higher one. Sometimes these issues could be addressed by firmware, but they have a history not to do this kind of updates.

If your ideal camera is the D800, you're in luck, otherwise your camera is probably not going to be perfect.

I feel that Pentax OTOH always give their customers their very best effort in every camera body for a given price point.

At the moment D700 (low MP high FPS FF) and D300s (high FPS pro built DX) have no true successor. The K-3 is through and through a D300s successor, other than the pentax logo and K mount.
10-08-2013, 07:57 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
"There's also no built-in WiFi or EyeFi card support (only a strange new proprietary Flucard support; why the camera makers keep re-inventing the wheel I don't know, and most of the time they make the wheel less round when they do so)."
I think I disagree with him on this as well. Designing your own built-in WiFi is re-inventing the wheel. Licensing an existing WiFi solution and building on top of that, is well, NOT re-inventing the wheel.

According to their website Flu-Card has been around for awhile but the web-site has not been updated since 2011, when they announced the availability of an SDK. Maybe the availability of the SDK or the willingness of the Flu-Card people to help develop the tethering app was the reason they were selected over Eye-Fi?

According to the website their apps will work with iOS, Android, Windows and Mac. But this is for the Flu-Card apps, not necessarily any tethering software developed by Pentax.

10-08-2013, 08:38 PM   #24
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Well, Hogan sees the K-3 as a serious threat to Nikon because of Nikon's failure to deliver a true high-end APS-C camera or a sufficiently complete APS-C lens selection. The K system has an extensive set of compact, high-performance primes, but Nikon has no direct equivalents to these lenses. He does point out some limitations of the K-3 (1/180s flash sync being the most significant) in a manner that shows his strong bias towards Nikon, but he states clearly that Nikon needs to step up its game or risk having a lot of its users migrating to other systems for a better APS-C solution.

--DragonLord
10-08-2013, 08:58 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
Nah, Nikon butched it up by giving it crappy fps, which the Pentax D400 delivers in spades. Nikon likes to play this game they eliminate one or two critical functions out of a lower tier camera body so that you buy the higher one. Sometimes these issues could be addressed by firmware, but they have a history not to do this kind of updates.
...and a shallow buffer especially with RAW shooting.

33 JPEG/6 RAW @ 6 fps is not how you compete with other enthusiast-class APS-C cameras. The EOS 70D can shoot 65 JPEG/16 RAW @ 7 fps (though at a slightly lower resolution of 20 megapixels).

In the face of a new camera from a rather unlikely competitor that handles 60 JPEG/23 RAW @ 8.3 fps, this is a sure-fire way to lose customers.

--DragonLord
10-08-2013, 09:03 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
Well, Hogan sees the K-3 as a serious threat to Nikon because of Nikon's failure to deliver a true high-end APS-C camera or a sufficiently complete APS-C lens selection.
Interesting perspective by Thom. Despite all the clamor here for a Pentax FF, perhaps Ricoh is targeting their competition's weakness by focusing on being THE best APS-C lineup. Ricoh sees numbers and trends we do not, so perhaps they have recognized that there is a market to exploit. Just precisely where Thom stated:
QuoteQuote:
"You've left a lot of folk out of the market for a top-end, serious camera. I know a lot of college sports shooters and other pros who are using DX for those reasons: size, weight, and price. They can't afford a full out FX system, nor do they want to travel with one given the airline carry-on hassle we get these days."
Makes a lot more sense to capitalize on an area where the competition is weak than to risk a lot by going head to head with them at their strong point...
10-08-2013, 09:11 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Interesting perspective by Thom. Despite all the clamor here for a Pentax FF, perhaps Ricoh is targeting their competition's weakness by focusing on being THE best APS-C lineup. Ricoh sees numbers and trends we do not, so perhaps they have recognized that there is a market to exploit. Just precisely where Thom stated:

Makes a lot more sense to capitalize on an area where the competition is weak than to risk a lot by going head to head with them at their strong point...
This is playing to Pentax's biggest strength. Pentax has a long history of making well-designed cameras with superior performance for their size. Targeting the high-end APS-C market, which Nikon has seemingly disregarded, is precisely the right thing for Ricoh-Pentax to do.

--DragonLord
10-08-2013, 09:12 PM   #28
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I don't listen to Thom much, he seems to complain about some pretty trivial things:

"..again we have a camera maker who isn't listening to serious users about which bracketing variations would be most useful (no 1 or 2 stop bracket steps, only 1/3 and 1/2)"

Is it really THAT hard to turn the dial that extra bit to get to the 1 stop position? When I do HDR, I bracket in 1.7 stop increments. Providing your initial exposure is accurate, a 1 stop difference is a rather trivial amount of light when you take into account the DR and noise characteristics of modern DSLR sensors.
10-08-2013, 09:28 PM   #29
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Not being a professional, nor someone who uses flash often, I am at a loss to understand why the 1/180 sec flash sync speed is such a big deal. The Nikon D600 only has 1/200, and even 1/250 is only half a stop or so. I know there is a need sometimes to match the flash with ambient lighting when using fill-in, etc, but is half a stop really that important? Can't one just stick an ND filter on the lens, or something (OK, there might be a small hit in IQ)? Would someone please explain, so that if someone with a Canikon ever sneers at me, I'd at least know where they're coming from?
10-08-2013, 11:24 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
if someone with a Canikon ever sneers at me, I'd at least know where they're coming from?
If anyone did that to me, I'd chalk it up to sheer arrogance and snobbery. Considering that I already use Canon, Nikon and Leica camera systems I'm well aware of their deficiencies - which is one of the reasons I also use Pentax.
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