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10-17-2013, 07:20 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by rjm Quote
Thom Hogan, and his fans, views things though a narrow prism. Specifically, the needs and wants of wildlife photographers mostly.

For one thing, they cannot accept that Nikon killed the "high-end" APSC camera. They wait in perpetuity for a D400 that will never come because Nikon has no plans to go there. .

You got it wrong way around. It is APS that have "killed" FF. In spite of the D600 and the 6D FF marketshare seems to be fairly constant. A D400 would steal sales from Nikon FF bodies. Thats probably why it takes so long. It will be here, though, unless Nikon will let Pentax and Canon take this market for themselves (the 7D is a best seller) . The K-3, provided it delivers, have the potential of being Pentax all time bestselling DSLR
The general consumer have no interest in carrying bigger bodies and lenses for the sake of it. Bigger formats is not an asset if you do not need or want the boost in image quality. And it better have a boost in image quality; would anyone see the difference between a K-3 print and a D600 print except for the higest ISO?
In addition, better sensors makes the need for larger sensors less. Within 5 years APS will provide 32-40mp; at this level the law of diminishing returns set in; - you need an enormous increase in MP to make a real difference at this level.
But whats more important, a new generation of photo enthusiast come from cell phone usage being used to portable and unobtrusive devices. There are no reasons to expect these people to be happy with a D800 sized camera and F:2.8 zoom lenses. The future of smaller sensored cameras is great. You don't need to be a wildlife photographer to appreciate it.


Last edited by Pål Jensen; 10-17-2013 at 07:25 AM.
10-17-2013, 09:40 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
But whats more important, a new generation of photo enthusiast come from cell phone usage being used to portable and unobtrusive devices. There are no reasons to expect these people to be happy with a D800 sized camera and F:2.8 zoom lenses. The future of smaller sensored cameras is great. You don't need to be a wildlife photographer to appreciate it.
They may not be happy with a D800 sized camera and a f2.8 lens because of the size, but how does a APS DSLR fare any better? Yes its smaller than full frame, but the difference between an iphone and a APS is much much greater than APS to FF. If your a "cell cam" user, both APS and FF cameras look giant and obtrusive, so neither is really appealling, especially at over $1000.
You can't fit either in your pocket. And if all you are doing is posting to facebook and instagram, you won't notice a difference in IQ either.
10-18-2013, 08:47 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
This is the exact reason I've been avoiding SDM lens. If they put a 5 year warranty on it, I'll order 3-4 today. It's that simple.
should be on the Ricoh boardroom wall...warranty = sales
10-18-2013, 11:01 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
should be on the Ricoh boardroom wall...warranty = sales
How much more money would you pay for (name your Pentax lens) if it came with a five year warranty?

10-18-2013, 11:43 PM   #80
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Depends...
am I paying for quality control and design improvement or just the ambulance beneath the cliff ?

Sigma seems to be pulling off high quality, good price and long warranties
10-19-2013, 02:02 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
Depends...
am I paying for quality control and design improvement or just the ambulance beneath the cliff ?

Sigma seems to be pulling off high quality, good price and long warranties
Well, good QC and long warranties go hand in hand. Tighten up QC, less poor and defective samples get through, and you can plonk on longer warranties on account of less repairs and returns needed. And you get praised for the long warranty, you sell more, etc. etc.
10-19-2013, 07:03 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
Depends...
am I paying for quality control and design improvement or just the ambulance beneath the cliff ?
You understand well the factors in pricing decisions. Don't forget each warranty is a current liability on the books of the company. It has a real money cost on the Balance Sheet. Manufacturing processes and sample testing are real costs that must be allocated to each item produced. While they should reduce the eventual total cost of warranty claims they are balanced against warranty reserves.

QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
Sigma seems to be pulling off high quality, good price and long warranties
And for the money you get a Sigma lens with a long warranty.

I believe Pentax sells a Warranty Card for a two-year warranty extension on camera bodies for $20 US. That should indicate something about the cost of a warranty.
10-19-2013, 03:35 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That should indicate something about the cost of a warranty.
Not sure what dealer markup on this is. Has to be something. Even if it is zero (which it is not) this is a great deal. So great that I don't understand why it is not just added to the camera price and added automatically. Say Pentax gets $15 for it just for argument.
What sounds better:
1) A new camera with a 3 year warranty that costs $15 more or
2) A new camera with a 1 year warranty that you can buy an extended warranty for

I think this is USA only and other countries have different warranty periods, but this has always stuck out as particularly dumb in my mind. I always buy the extra 2 years, it's worth it. But from a marketing view just giving it a 3 year warranty is much more powerful.

10-19-2013, 08:38 PM   #84
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Long warranty may mean that it is cheaper to repair/replace than to build it right in the first place.


Steve
10-20-2013, 08:11 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by rjm Quote
Thom Hogan, and his fans, views things though a narrow prism. Specifically, the needs and wants of wildlife photographers mostly.

For one thing, they cannot accept that Nikon killed the "high-end" APSC camera. They wait in perpetuity for a D400 that will never come because Nikon has no plans to go there. The D90 was upgraded to the D7000 line (with AI coupling ring), and the D700 downgraded to the D600. This, in Nikon's view, fills the gap. There are some, very vocal, people for whom this is a poor product layout : neither the D7000 nor the D600 are as rugged or as fast (or as deep a buffer) as the D300. Nikon has no APSC "action cam" like the 7D for example. So Thom is correct to say that the K-3 is what his people wanted in the Nikon D400.

However, I think Nikon called it correctly: given the choice a APSC dSLR and a full frame dSLR at the same price, most people are going to opt for full frame even if it means taking a hit in performance. The D400 would have had to cost $2000. There isn't the market for that camera at that price like there was when the D200, D300 were released.

The cynical side of me also notes that Nikon has moved to ever-cheaper construction in ever more-expensive camera lines. "profit margins" being the operating principle here, clearly.

Will Nikonians pining for a D400 move to Pentax for the K-3? Honestly, I doubt it.
A friend has the D7100. He likes the IQ, the AF drives his 300 f2.8 like the professional bodies. The buffer sucks. And interestingly, both of his bodies have broken. The glass on the back cracked on one, and the diopter adjustment broke on the other. He is not rough with his equipment, but is a wildlife shooter, in and out of vehicles, trudging through the bush. My K5 has taken some serious abuse when I've fallen with no more than some scratched paint.
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