No upgrade in flash on K3?

**grahame** · 10-09-2013, 08:52 PM

One option is, give the built in flash HSS ability. i don't know if it is possible for such a small flash, but if they do, it is such a great thing to have. Sometime I just need a little fill-in light under strong sun, GN12 is fine in this case; and more importantly, we can wirelessly trigger HSS off camera flash for more dedicated job.
Or a wireless radio trigger built in, with the ability for HSS and PTTL.
Apparently, pentax cannot or don't want to do it.

jaad75 · 10-10-2013, 03:58 AM

Apparently, they added HSS option to the pop-up flash, so it can do both, probably. Just remember that GN12 on-board flash in HSS mode won't give you even half of that, but using it as a controller for off-camera HSS flash should be ok.

awaldram · 10-10-2013, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by jaad75

Apparently, they added HSS option to the pop-up flash, so it can do both, probably. Just remember that GN12 on-board flash in HSS mode won't give you even half of that, but using it as a controller for off-camera HSS flash should be ok.

Only half the story

If the flash has a GN12 @ <=1/180 iso 100 then it would have a (aprox) GN15@ 1/1000 iso400 hss

IchabodCrane · 10-10-2013, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by grahame

One option is, give the built in flash HSS ability. i don't know if it is possible for such a small flash, but if they do, it is such a great thing to have. Sometime I just need a little fill-in light under strong sun, GN12 is fine in this case; and more importantly, we can wirelessly trigger HSS off camera flash for more dedicated job.
Or a wireless radio trigger built in, with the ability for HSS and PTTL.
Apparently, pentax cannot or don't want to do it.

They sell a couple of flashes that can do that and certainly far better than you could ever hope for with the pop up flash.

jaad75 · 10-10-2013, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by awaldram

Only half the story

If the flash has a GN12 @ <=1/180 iso 100 then it would have a (aprox) GN15@ 1/1000 iso400 hss

Now that's a half of the story, cause it's usually more important to have HSS in bright sunlight, where you are stuck at ISO100 and there is no way to get the regular sync shutter speed other than closing the aperture far beyond the diffraction limit.

fyby · 10-10-2013, 05:21 AM

Why bother so much? Canon 6D has 1/180, Nikon D600 has 1/200 .
For fill flash you can use HSS.
Can you please give me examples, when 1/180 limits you so much, if you have HSS? Of course if you shoot with x-sync 1/250, you can open more aperture then you dont need so much flash power for fill, so you will save battery in flash. Is there anything else?

Thank you.

jaad75 · 10-10-2013, 05:29 AM

It's about overpowering the sunlight mostly not just filling the shadows.

awaldram · 10-10-2013, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by jaad75

It's about overpowering the sunlight mostly not just filling the shadows.

Really ...... with GN12!!!

nothing is going to help you with the bult in flash if thats what this is about

as I said on the other forum

the elegant soltuion isn;t 1/180 > 1/250 it's get a bigger gun

With multiple flashes you can use low ISO , HSS and controll the light whilst overpowering the sun.

I really can't understand the 1/180 angst but then again I own 7 high power HSS capable flashes so maybe I wouldn't.

novsky · 10-10-2013, 05:46 AM

Hi Awaldram, could explain me how did u control 4 guns into a softbox in wireless, using hss mode ?? A flash into an Octo can't see the master signal
I've found the Aokatec but this solution seems a little tinkered... whe've got no compatibility with PW or Odin :/ (sorry for my english)

jaad75 · 10-10-2013, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by awaldram

Really ...... with GN12!!!

Of course not. I was talking about having shorter x-sync in general, not HSS.
And the most important thing about HSS enabled pop-up is having the ability to trigger remote HSS flash.

Originally posted by awaldram

the elegant soltuion isn;t 1/180 > 1/250 it's get a bigger gun

It might be, but then you need to close the aperture half stop further and go from let's say 400Ws to 600Ws...

yakky · 10-10-2013, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by p38arover

No idea. Ken was referring to using a camera with a different shutter system

Newer cameras are CMOS. The older CCD based nikons had a hybrid electronic shutter.

**grahame** · 10-10-2013, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by awaldram

the elegant soltuion isn;t 1/180 > 1/250 it's get a bigger gun

We all agree that we need bigger gun for perfect shots. But how many times did you realize you need a HSS flash but you didn't have one with you? It happened to me a lot.
I hope a built-in flash (low power is OK) that can do HSS and of course PTTL, so we can always have one in hand, plus it can trigger the off camera big gun wirelessly, in case you bring only one flash with you. YOu can do what ever you want/need in studio, but outdoor in the field, I prefer light load in my bag.

awaldram · 10-11-2013, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by jaad75

Of course not. I was talking about having shorter x-sync in general, not HSS.
And the most important thing about HSS enabled pop-up is having the ability to trigger remote HSS flash.
It might be, but then you need to close the aperture half stop further and go from let's say 400Ws to 600Ws...

If your using portable flashes not studio lights then its irrelevant what you set the aperture to as far as flash goes.

Your point was you needed 1/250 to overpower the sun without ND filters and HSS was to weak (power loss)
I suggested bigger gun i.e more power to overcome hss power loss was a better solution as then you can use whatever shutter take your fancy to deliver the ambient/flash mix you envision.

Why would you need to close the aperture half stop further

i.e if GN 12 in HSS gave you 2 stop underpowered @1/1000
then you would need a gun GN36 (assuming you use gn12 in master) or 48 if not.
If you had two gn48 flashes then you could shoot past 1/2000 still with the same power.

awaldram · 10-11-2013, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by grahame

We all agree that we need bigger gun for perfect shots. But how many times did you realize you need a HSS flash but you didn't have one with you? It happened to me a lot.
I hope a built-in flash (low power is OK) that can do HSS and of course PTTL, so we can always have one in hand, plus it can trigger the off camera big gun wirelessly, in case you bring only one flash with you. YOu can do what ever you want/need in studio, but outdoor in the field, I prefer light load in my bag.

Never

my bag has a flash in always
your second point I'm all over having in body hss is brilliant (if true).

I don't have the luxury of a studio for my work so always use portable flashes sometimes X-synced sometimes P-ttl always Radio wireless and 4 + flashes.
This demonstrates my concept of fill light and what I try to achieve
Strobist: Lighting 101:Balancing Flash With Ambient, Pt 2

But when holiday snapping I'll only have 1 p-ttl flash with me so an in-body that can control it opens up so many new ideas.

jaad75 · 10-11-2013, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by awaldram

I suggested bigger gun i.e more power to overcome hss power loss was a better solution as then you can use whatever shutter take your fancy to deliver the ambient/flash mix you envision.

Why would you need to close the aperture half stop further

I thought you meant regular sync with regular studio/portable flashes (not HSS enabled speedlights). I wouldn't call 70Ws speedlight "a bigger gun"...:P So, if you're stuck with the lowest ISO and x-sync shutter speed you need to close the aperture to kill the ambient and then in fact need a bigger gun to get the proper exposure of your subject.
BTW, if your "bigger gun", let's say 540FGZ, regular GN is 39 (@35mm, ISO100), then at 1/1000s in HSS mode it's just 10.1...

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
K3 officially released in Australia	WA-surfer	Pentax K-3 & K-3 II	21	01-19-2014 12:17 PM
K3 on Pentax forums banner	lurchlarson	Pentax News and Rumors	9	10-07-2013 06:34 PM
K7 - Upgrade to K30, buy a "cheap" K5 or Wait for the K3?	EstimatedEyes	Pentax K-30 & K-50	13	07-18-2012 04:14 PM
No focus assist beam with third-party flash on Kx	pete_pf	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	3	10-25-2011 02:01 PM
'No Go' on external flash.	NLAlston	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	9	03-07-2007 05:36 PM

10-09-2013, 08:52 PM	#31
grahame Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,041 Original Poster	One option is, give the built in flash HSS ability. i don't know if it is possible for such a small flash, but if they do, it is such a great thing to have. Sometime I just need a little fill-in light under strong sun, GN12 is fine in this case; and more importantly, we can wirelessly trigger HSS off camera flash for more dedicated job. Or a wireless radio trigger built in, with the ability for HSS and PTTL. Apparently, pentax cannot or don't want to do it.

10-10-2013, 03:58 AM	#32
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Apparently, they added HSS option to the pop-up flash, so it can do both, probably. Just remember that GN12 on-board flash in HSS mode won't give you even half of that, but using it as a controller for off-camera HSS flash should be ok.

10-10-2013, 04:21 AM	#33
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Originally posted by jaad75 Apparently, they added HSS option to the pop-up flash, so it can do both, probably. Just remember that GN12 on-board flash in HSS mode won't give you even half of that, but using it as a controller for off-camera HSS flash should be ok. Only half the story If the flash has a GN12 @ <=1/180 iso 100 then it would have a (aprox) GN15@ 1/1000 iso400 hss

10-10-2013, 04:44 AM	#34
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by grahame One option is, give the built in flash HSS ability. i don't know if it is possible for such a small flash, but if they do, it is such a great thing to have. Sometime I just need a little fill-in light under strong sun, GN12 is fine in this case; and more importantly, we can wirelessly trigger HSS off camera flash for more dedicated job. Or a wireless radio trigger built in, with the ability for HSS and PTTL. Apparently, pentax cannot or don't want to do it. They sell a couple of flashes that can do that and certainly far better than you could ever hope for with the pop up flash.

10-10-2013, 04:58 AM	#35
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by awaldram Only half the story If the flash has a GN12 @ <=1/180 iso 100 then it would have a (aprox) GN15@ 1/1000 iso400 hss Now that's a half of the story, cause it's usually more important to have HSS in bright sunlight, where you are stuck at ISO100 and there is no way to get the regular sync shutter speed other than closing the aperture far beyond the diffraction limit.

10-10-2013, 05:21 AM	#36
fyby Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 46	Why bother so much? Canon 6D has 1/180, Nikon D600 has 1/200 . For fill flash you can use HSS. Can you please give me examples, when 1/180 limits you so much, if you have HSS? Of course if you shoot with x-sync 1/250, you can open more aperture then you dont need so much flash power for fill, so you will save battery in flash. Is there anything else? Thank you.

10-10-2013, 05:29 AM	#37
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	It's about overpowering the sunlight mostly not just filling the shadows.

10-10-2013, 05:36 AM	#38
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Originally posted by jaad75 It's about overpowering the sunlight mostly not just filling the shadows. Really ...... with GN12!!! nothing is going to help you with the bult in flash if thats what this is about as I said on the other forum the elegant soltuion isn;t 1/180 > 1/250 it's get a bigger gun With multiple flashes you can use low ISO , HSS and controll the light whilst overpowering the sun. I really can't understand the 1/180 angst but then again I own 7 high power HSS capable flashes so maybe I wouldn't.

10-10-2013, 05:46 AM	#39
novsky Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 63	Hi Awaldram, could explain me how did u control 4 guns into a softbox in wireless, using hss mode ?? A flash into an Octo can't see the master signal I've found the Aokatec but this solution seems a little tinkered... whe've got no compatibility with PW or Odin :/ (sorry for my english)

10-10-2013, 05:48 AM	#40
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by awaldram Really ...... with GN12!!! Of course not. I was talking about having shorter x-sync in general, not HSS. And the most important thing about HSS enabled pop-up is having the ability to trigger remote HSS flash. Originally posted by awaldram the elegant soltuion isn;t 1/180 > 1/250 it's get a bigger gun It might be, but then you need to close the aperture half stop further and go from let's say 400Ws to 600Ws...

10-10-2013, 05:53 AM	#41
yakky New Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 17	Originally posted by p38arover No idea. Ken was referring to using a camera with a different shutter system Newer cameras are CMOS. The older CCD based nikons had a hybrid electronic shutter.

10-10-2013, 06:02 AM	#42
grahame Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,041 Original Poster	Originally posted by awaldram the elegant soltuion isn;t 1/180 > 1/250 it's get a bigger gun We all agree that we need bigger gun for perfect shots. But how many times did you realize you need a HSS flash but you didn't have one with you? It happened to me a lot. I hope a built-in flash (low power is OK) that can do HSS and of course PTTL, so we can always have one in hand, plus it can trigger the off camera big gun wirelessly, in case you bring only one flash with you. YOu can do what ever you want/need in studio, but outdoor in the field, I prefer light load in my bag.

10-11-2013, 06:02 AM	#43
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Originally posted by jaad75 Of course not. I was talking about having shorter x-sync in general, not HSS. And the most important thing about HSS enabled pop-up is having the ability to trigger remote HSS flash. It might be, but then you need to close the aperture half stop further and go from let's say 400Ws to 600Ws... If your using portable flashes not studio lights then its irrelevant what you set the aperture to as far as flash goes. Your point was you needed 1/250 to overpower the sun without ND filters and HSS was to weak (power loss) I suggested bigger gun i.e more power to overcome hss power loss was a better solution as then you can use whatever shutter take your fancy to deliver the ambient/flash mix you envision. Why would you need to close the aperture half stop further i.e if GN 12 in HSS gave you 2 stop underpowered @1/1000 then you would need a gun GN36 (assuming you use gn12 in master) or 48 if not. If you had two gn48 flashes then you could shoot past 1/2000 still with the same power.

10-11-2013, 06:12 AM	#44
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Originally posted by grahame We all agree that we need bigger gun for perfect shots. But how many times did you realize you need a HSS flash but you didn't have one with you? It happened to me a lot. I hope a built-in flash (low power is OK) that can do HSS and of course PTTL, so we can always have one in hand, plus it can trigger the off camera big gun wirelessly, in case you bring only one flash with you. YOu can do what ever you want/need in studio, but outdoor in the field, I prefer light load in my bag. Never my bag has a flash in always your second point I'm all over having in body hss is brilliant (if true). I don't have the luxury of a studio for my work so always use portable flashes sometimes X-synced sometimes P-ttl always Radio wireless and 4 + flashes. This demonstrates my concept of fill light and what I try to achieve Strobist: Lighting 101:Balancing Flash With Ambient, Pt 2 But when holiday snapping I'll only have 1 p-ttl flash with me so an in-body that can control it opens up so many new ideas.

10-11-2013, 06:35 AM	#45
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by awaldram I suggested bigger gun i.e more power to overcome hss power loss was a better solution as then you can use whatever shutter take your fancy to deliver the ambient/flash mix you envision. Why would you need to close the aperture half stop further I thought you meant regular sync with regular studio/portable flashes (not HSS enabled speedlights). I wouldn't call 70Ws speedlight "a bigger gun"...:P So, if you're stuck with the lowest ISO and x-sync shutter speed you need to close the aperture to kill the ambient and then in fact need a bigger gun to get the proper exposure of your subject. BTW, if your "bigger gun", let's say 540FGZ, regular GN is 39 (@35mm, ISO100), then at 1/1000s in HSS mode it's just 10.1...