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10-09-2013, 08:52 PM   #31
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One option is, give the built in flash HSS ability. i don't know if it is possible for such a small flash, but if they do, it is such a great thing to have. Sometime I just need a little fill-in light under strong sun, GN12 is fine in this case; and more importantly, we can wirelessly trigger HSS off camera flash for more dedicated job.
Or a wireless radio trigger built in, with the ability for HSS and PTTL.
Apparently, pentax cannot or don't want to do it.

10-10-2013, 03:58 AM   #32
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Apparently, they added HSS option to the pop-up flash, so it can do both, probably. Just remember that GN12 on-board flash in HSS mode won't give you even half of that, but using it as a controller for off-camera HSS flash should be ok.
10-10-2013, 04:21 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
Apparently, they added HSS option to the pop-up flash, so it can do both, probably. Just remember that GN12 on-board flash in HSS mode won't give you even half of that, but using it as a controller for off-camera HSS flash should be ok.
Only half the story

If the flash has a GN12 @ <=1/180 iso 100 then it would have a (aprox) GN15@ 1/1000 iso400 hss
10-10-2013, 04:44 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by grahame Quote
One option is, give the built in flash HSS ability. i don't know if it is possible for such a small flash, but if they do, it is such a great thing to have. Sometime I just need a little fill-in light under strong sun, GN12 is fine in this case; and more importantly, we can wirelessly trigger HSS off camera flash for more dedicated job.
Or a wireless radio trigger built in, with the ability for HSS and PTTL.
Apparently, pentax cannot or don't want to do it.
They sell a couple of flashes that can do that and certainly far better than you could ever hope for with the pop up flash.

10-10-2013, 04:58 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
Only half the story

If the flash has a GN12 @ <=1/180 iso 100 then it would have a (aprox) GN15@ 1/1000 iso400 hss
Now that's a half of the story, cause it's usually more important to have HSS in bright sunlight, where you are stuck at ISO100 and there is no way to get the regular sync shutter speed other than closing the aperture far beyond the diffraction limit.
10-10-2013, 05:21 AM   #36
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Why bother so much? Canon 6D has 1/180, Nikon D600 has 1/200 .
For fill flash you can use HSS.
Can you please give me examples, when 1/180 limits you so much, if you have HSS? Of course if you shoot with x-sync 1/250, you can open more aperture then you dont need so much flash power for fill, so you will save battery in flash. Is there anything else?

Thank you.
10-10-2013, 05:29 AM   #37
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It's about overpowering the sunlight mostly not just filling the shadows.
10-10-2013, 05:36 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
It's about overpowering the sunlight mostly not just filling the shadows.
Really ...... with GN12!!!

nothing is going to help you with the bult in flash if thats what this is about
as I said on the other forum

the elegant soltuion isn;t 1/180 > 1/250 it's get a bigger gun

With multiple flashes you can use low ISO , HSS and controll the light whilst overpowering the sun.

I really can't understand the 1/180 angst but then again I own 7 high power HSS capable flashes so maybe I wouldn't.

10-10-2013, 05:46 AM   #39
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Hi Awaldram, could explain me how did u control 4 guns into a softbox in wireless, using hss mode ?? A flash into an Octo can't see the master signal
I've found the Aokatec but this solution seems a little tinkered... whe've got no compatibility with PW or Odin :/ (sorry for my english)
10-10-2013, 05:48 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
Really ...... with GN12!!!
Of course not. I was talking about having shorter x-sync in general, not HSS.
And the most important thing about HSS enabled pop-up is having the ability to trigger remote HSS flash.
QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
the elegant soltuion isn;t 1/180 > 1/250 it's get a bigger gun
It might be, but then you need to close the aperture half stop further and go from let's say 400Ws to 600Ws...
10-10-2013, 05:53 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by p38arover Quote
No idea. Ken was referring to using a camera with a different shutter system
Newer cameras are CMOS. The older CCD based nikons had a hybrid electronic shutter.
10-10-2013, 06:02 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
the elegant soltuion isn;t 1/180 > 1/250 it's get a bigger gun
We all agree that we need bigger gun for perfect shots. But how many times did you realize you need a HSS flash but you didn't have one with you? It happened to me a lot.
I hope a built-in flash (low power is OK) that can do HSS and of course PTTL, so we can always have one in hand, plus it can trigger the off camera big gun wirelessly, in case you bring only one flash with you. YOu can do what ever you want/need in studio, but outdoor in the field, I prefer light load in my bag.
10-11-2013, 06:02 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
Of course not. I was talking about having shorter x-sync in general, not HSS.
And the most important thing about HSS enabled pop-up is having the ability to trigger remote HSS flash.
It might be, but then you need to close the aperture half stop further and go from let's say 400Ws to 600Ws...
If your using portable flashes not studio lights then its irrelevant what you set the aperture to as far as flash goes.

Your point was you needed 1/250 to overpower the sun without ND filters and HSS was to weak (power loss)
I suggested bigger gun i.e more power to overcome hss power loss was a better solution as then you can use whatever shutter take your fancy to deliver the ambient/flash mix you envision.

Why would you need to close the aperture half stop further

i.e if GN 12 in HSS gave you 2 stop underpowered @1/1000
then you would need a gun GN36 (assuming you use gn12 in master) or 48 if not.
If you had two gn48 flashes then you could shoot past 1/2000 still with the same power.
10-11-2013, 06:12 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by grahame Quote
We all agree that we need bigger gun for perfect shots. But how many times did you realize you need a HSS flash but you didn't have one with you? It happened to me a lot.
I hope a built-in flash (low power is OK) that can do HSS and of course PTTL, so we can always have one in hand, plus it can trigger the off camera big gun wirelessly, in case you bring only one flash with you. YOu can do what ever you want/need in studio, but outdoor in the field, I prefer light load in my bag.
Never my bag has a flash in always
your second point I'm all over having in body hss is brilliant (if true).

I don't have the luxury of a studio for my work so always use portable flashes sometimes X-synced sometimes P-ttl always Radio wireless and 4 + flashes.
This demonstrates my concept of fill light and what I try to achieve
Strobist: Lighting 101:Balancing Flash With Ambient, Pt 2

But when holiday snapping I'll only have 1 p-ttl flash with me so an in-body that can control it opens up so many new ideas.
10-11-2013, 06:35 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
I suggested bigger gun i.e more power to overcome hss power loss was a better solution as then you can use whatever shutter take your fancy to deliver the ambient/flash mix you envision.

Why would you need to close the aperture half stop further
I thought you meant regular sync with regular studio/portable flashes (not HSS enabled speedlights). I wouldn't call 70Ws speedlight "a bigger gun"...:P So, if you're stuck with the lowest ISO and x-sync shutter speed you need to close the aperture to kill the ambient and then in fact need a bigger gun to get the proper exposure of your subject.
BTW, if your "bigger gun", let's say 540FGZ, regular GN is 39 (@35mm, ISO100), then at 1/1000s in HSS mode it's just 10.1...
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