No upgrade in flash on K3?

**grahame** · 10-08-2013, 02:03 PM

Anyone knows if there is any retouch in the flash system? Is max sync speed is 180? Built-in wireless? revised chip to solve the problem of inaccuracy of bouncing flash?
-- Flash was a limit factor on all earlier models.
A very lovely camera. But I would like it more if it has new flash, and if it has a "new" 16 mp sensor with much better high ISO behavior instead of 24 mp. But that is the market. None else likes 16 mp anymore

.

Adam · 10-08-2013, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by grahame

Anyone knows if there is any retouch in the flash system? Is max sync speed is 180? Built-in wireless? revised chip to solve the problem of inaccuracy of bouncing flash?
-- Flash was a limit factor on all earlier models.
A very lovely camera. But I would like it more if it has new flash, and if it has a "new" 16 mp sensor with much better high ISO behavior instead of 24 mp. But that is the market. None else likes 16 mp anymore

.

The flash is the only thing that wasn't touched. As for the sensor, you should still see a marginal improvement in terms of noise (24mp scaled to 16 mp = less noisy), but it's close to the current limits of the APS-C format.

**grahame** · 10-08-2013, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by grahame

revised chip to solve the problem of inaccuracy of bouncing flash?

I ment the chip controls the flash (I am sure it is part of the whole board, but don't know what to call that part). Bounce flash on K5 was a problem, as many of us experienced. Don't if it is the camera or flash to blame to. Maybe someone can report back here, with new combo of K3+ NEW flash.
in terms of imagine sensor, i am sure of pentax spent the effort they put on the new 24 mp sensor on a 16 mp one, the high ISO noise level should be better controlled. but, as I said, I understand pentax had to add some numbers there.

jaad75 · 10-08-2013, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by grahame

Anyone knows if there is any retouch in the flash system?

New metering chip.

Originally posted by grahame

Is max sync speed is 180?

Yes.

Originally posted by grahame

Built-in wireless?

Yes. With HSS and manual on a pop-up flash.

Originally posted by grahame

revised chip to solve the problem of inaccuracy of bouncing flash?

It was solved with K-5II - it is very accurate.

Originally posted by grahame

Flash was a limit factor on all earlier models.

It was behaving strange on original K-5, but after one of the last firmware updates it is pretty good.

And of course there are areas to improve (groups, remote power adjustments in manual mode, x-sync), but it is usable already and it looks like it is much better with K-3

**grahame** · 10-08-2013, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by jaad75

Yes. With HSS and manual on a pop-up flash.

So the built-in pop-up flash can wirelessly trigger a flash with HSS model now? That is a great upgrade if true! Right now I have to mount the flash on the camera for HSS, or use another flash on camera to trigger a wireless flash for HSS.

An dI hope to see an electricity signal wireless control on camera. Sometime, particularly outdoor, light trigger is not very reliable.

jaad75 · 10-08-2013, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by grahame

So the built-in pop-up flash can wirelessly trigger a flash with HSS model now?

Yes - didn't you read the specs?

Originally posted by grahame

An dI hope to see an electricity signal wireless control on camera. Sometime, particularly outdoor, light trigger is not very reliable.

Buy a radio trigger. You can even buy the one which works as a radio link transferring light signals, so you can use the P-TTL.

p38arover · 10-08-2013, 02:40 PM

I came across this on Ken Rockwell's review of the Nikon D600 whilst surfing for info about the D600 sensor oil and dust I saw mentioned on PF.

Quote:

1/200 Flash Sync

No big deal, 1/200 is the same as 1/250 — only a third of a stop different than Nikon's hottest D3 and D4 pro cameras, and the same as the Canon 5D Mark III. (1/250 is available in an FP mode on the D600.)

No one makes DSLRs with 1/500 sync anymore. What happened is that the older DSLRs used hybrid electronic shutters that let them sync perfectly up to their top shutter speed (1/16,000 on the D1, D1H and D1X), and this was limited to 1/500 with dedicated strobes as not to lose any light. You could go straight to top speed with a non-dedicated flash in manual modes.

When resolutions grew above about 10 MP, the electronic shutters went away, so we're back to being limited by the mechanical focal plane shutter.

No big deal; 1/200 is the same as 1/250 as far as trying to get enough light on the subject is concerned. If I need 1/4,000 sync, I'll shoot my D70 or D40 — or my D1 at 1/16,000!

Maybe 1/180th isn't as bad as we are led to believe.

**grahame** · 10-08-2013, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by jaad75

Buy a radio trigger.

Radio trigger does not do Pttl

Originally posted by p38arover

Maybe 1/180th isn't as bad as we are led to believe.

It is a limit if you want to use a radio trigger or any flash does not support HSS model. But I know 240 doesn't help too much. And I will be unreasonable if I want 500.

jaad75 · 10-08-2013, 02:52 PM

It's not a matter of 1/180s as much (by the way you can get 1/200s with a simple trick, so Pentax DSLRs are capable of this), as cutting the signal to trigger manual flashes on hot shoe and sync port. If I want to to sync at whatever shutter speed, just let me do this, even at cost of getting the shadow of shutter curtain on my photo.

jaad75 · 10-08-2013, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by grahame

Radio trigger does not do Pttl

I told you about the one which does.

**grahame** · 10-08-2013, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by jaad75

I told you about the one which does

I
I saw one like this: Aokatec AK-TTL(TX+RX) Radio Wireless TTL Flash Trigger.
But it does not support HSS.
Can you recommend one?
Anyway, we all agree it is a good feature to have. I wish penatx will have it built-in.

jaad75 · 10-08-2013, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by grahame

But it does not support HSS.

Really? Never checked it personally, but I was sure it did. Of course if you use it with a controller that supports it.

tabl10s · 10-08-2013, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by p38arover

I came across this on Ken Rockwell's review of the Nikon D600 whilst surfing for info about the D600 sensor oil and dust I saw mentioned on PF.

Maybe 1/180th isn't as bad as we are led to believe.

p38arover:

How does an increase in MP's negate the use of higher synch speed?

asp1880 · 10-08-2013, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by grahame

I
I saw one like this: Aokatec AK-TTL(TX+RX) Radio Wireless TTL Flash Trigger.
But it does not support HSS.
Can you recommend one?

I don't think there is one then. Then there's the pttl cable option, but sometimes that's not practically possible.

Regards,
--Anders.

**Digitalis** · 10-08-2013, 11:54 PM

This image is from a Pentax K5IIs with the flash synced @ 1/250th

Originally posted by jaad75

I want to to sync at whatever shutter speed, just let me do this, even at cost of getting the shadow of shutter curtain on my photo.

The unexposed portion of the frame gets considerably larger even with a 1/3rd increase in shutter speed. At a 1/320th sync speed slightly less than half the frame is left unexposed. To allow for higher sync speeds, the shutter unit will need a complete re-design.

10-08-2013, 02:03 PM	#1
grahame Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,041	No upgrade in flash on K3? Anyone knows if there is any retouch in the flash system? Is max sync speed is 180? Built-in wireless? revised chip to solve the problem of inaccuracy of bouncing flash? -- Flash was a limit factor on all earlier models. A very lovely camera. But I would like it more if it has new flash, and if it has a "new" 16 mp sensor with much better high ISO behavior instead of 24 mp. But that is the market. None else likes 16 mp anymore .

10-08-2013, 02:08 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	Originally posted by grahame Anyone knows if there is any retouch in the flash system? Is max sync speed is 180? Built-in wireless? revised chip to solve the problem of inaccuracy of bouncing flash? -- Flash was a limit factor on all earlier models. A very lovely camera. But I would like it more if it has new flash, and if it has a "new" 16 mp sensor with much better high ISO behavior instead of 24 mp. But that is the market. None else likes 16 mp anymore . The flash is the only thing that wasn't touched. As for the sensor, you should still see a marginal improvement in terms of noise (24mp scaled to 16 mp = less noisy), but it's close to the current limits of the APS-C format. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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10-08-2013, 02:16 PM	#3
grahame Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,041 Original Poster	Originally posted by grahame revised chip to solve the problem of inaccuracy of bouncing flash? I ment the chip controls the flash (I am sure it is part of the whole board, but don't know what to call that part). Bounce flash on K5 was a problem, as many of us experienced. Don't if it is the camera or flash to blame to. Maybe someone can report back here, with new combo of K3+ NEW flash. in terms of imagine sensor, i am sure of pentax spent the effort they put on the new 24 mp sensor on a 16 mp one, the high ISO noise level should be better controlled. but, as I said, I understand pentax had to add some numbers there.

10-08-2013, 02:26 PM	#4
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by grahame Anyone knows if there is any retouch in the flash system? New metering chip. Originally posted by grahame Is max sync speed is 180? Yes. Originally posted by grahame Built-in wireless? Yes. With HSS and manual on a pop-up flash. Originally posted by grahame revised chip to solve the problem of inaccuracy of bouncing flash? It was solved with K-5II - it is very accurate. Originally posted by grahame Flash was a limit factor on all earlier models. It was behaving strange on original K-5, but after one of the last firmware updates it is pretty good. And of course there are areas to improve (groups, remote power adjustments in manual mode, x-sync), but it is usable already and it looks like it is much better with K-3

10-08-2013, 02:35 PM	#5
grahame Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,041 Original Poster	Originally posted by jaad75 Yes. With HSS and manual on a pop-up flash. So the built-in pop-up flash can wirelessly trigger a flash with HSS model now? That is a great upgrade if true! Right now I have to mount the flash on the camera for HSS, or use another flash on camera to trigger a wireless flash for HSS. An dI hope to see an electricity signal wireless control on camera. Sometime, particularly outdoor, light trigger is not very reliable.

10-08-2013, 02:39 PM	#6
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by grahame So the built-in pop-up flash can wirelessly trigger a flash with HSS model now? Yes - didn't you read the specs? Originally posted by grahame An dI hope to see an electricity signal wireless control on camera. Sometime, particularly outdoor, light trigger is not very reliable. Buy a radio trigger. You can even buy the one which works as a radio link transferring light signals, so you can use the P-TTL.

10-08-2013, 02:40 PM	#7
p38arover Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Western Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,084	I came across this on Ken Rockwell's review of the Nikon D600 whilst surfing for info about the D600 sensor oil and dust I saw mentioned on PF. Quote: 1/200 Flash Sync No big deal, 1/200 is the same as 1/250 — only a third of a stop different than Nikon's hottest D3 and D4 pro cameras, and the same as the Canon 5D Mark III. (1/250 is available in an FP mode on the D600.) No one makes DSLRs with 1/500 sync anymore. What happened is that the older DSLRs used hybrid electronic shutters that let them sync perfectly up to their top shutter speed (1/16,000 on the D1, D1H and D1X), and this was limited to 1/500 with dedicated strobes as not to lose any light. You could go straight to top speed with a non-dedicated flash in manual modes. When resolutions grew above about 10 MP, the electronic shutters went away, so we're back to being limited by the mechanical focal plane shutter. No big deal; 1/200 is the same as 1/250 as far as trying to get enough light on the subject is concerned. If I need 1/4,000 sync, I'll shoot my D70 or D40 — or my D1 at 1/16,000! Maybe 1/180th isn't as bad as we are led to believe.

10-08-2013, 02:46 PM	#8
grahame Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,041 Original Poster	Originally posted by jaad75 Buy a radio trigger. Radio trigger does not do Pttl Originally posted by p38arover Maybe 1/180th isn't as bad as we are led to believe. It is a limit if you want to use a radio trigger or any flash does not support HSS model. But I know 240 doesn't help too much. And I will be unreasonable if I want 500.

10-08-2013, 02:52 PM	#9
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	It's not a matter of 1/180s as much (by the way you can get 1/200s with a simple trick, so Pentax DSLRs are capable of this), as cutting the signal to trigger manual flashes on hot shoe and sync port. If I want to to sync at whatever shutter speed, just let me do this, even at cost of getting the shadow of shutter curtain on my photo.

10-08-2013, 02:54 PM	#10
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by grahame Radio trigger does not do Pttl I told you about the one which does.

10-08-2013, 03:05 PM	#11
grahame Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,041 Original Poster	Originally posted by jaad75 I told you about the one which does I I saw one like this: Aokatec AK-TTL(TX+RX) Radio Wireless TTL Flash Trigger. But it does not support HSS. Can you recommend one? Anyway, we all agree it is a good feature to have. I wish penatx will have it built-in.

10-08-2013, 03:09 PM	#12
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by grahame But it does not support HSS. Really? Never checked it personally, but I was sure it did. Of course if you use it with a controller that supports it.

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10-08-2013, 10:07 PM	#13
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424	Originally posted by p38arover I came across this on Ken Rockwell's review of the Nikon D600 whilst surfing for info about the D600 sensor oil and dust I saw mentioned on PF. Maybe 1/180th isn't as bad as we are led to believe. p38arover: How does an increase in MP's negate the use of higher synch speed?

10-08-2013, 11:30 PM	#14
asp1880 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lyngby, Copenhagen Photos: Albums Posts: 742	Originally posted by grahame I I saw one like this: Aokatec AK-TTL(TX+RX) Radio Wireless TTL Flash Trigger. But it does not support HSS. Can you recommend one? I don't think there is one then. Then there's the pttl cable option, but sometimes that's not practically possible. Regards, --Anders.

10-08-2013, 11:54 PM	#15
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	This image is from a Pentax K5IIs with the flash synced @ 1/250th Originally posted by jaad75 I want to to sync at whatever shutter speed, just let me do this, even at cost of getting the shadow of shutter curtain on my photo. The unexposed portion of the frame gets considerably larger even with a 1/3rd increase in shutter speed. At a 1/320th sync speed slightly less than half the frame is left unexposed. To allow for higher sync speeds, the shutter unit will need a complete re-design.