K3 Sensor - It's SONY - PF is wacked out ;-)

Transit · 10-10-2013, 03:39 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

There are no "exclusive periods penalties" now with Ricoh in the game.
It's an all new game.

I had been wondering about that

Kunzite · 10-10-2013, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

So I thought that it was simply a fact that the K-3 uses a Toshiba sensor. After all, I should believe Adam, shouldn't I?

I thought the same

But apparently "confirmed" means "I read it on a site".
It was just a supposition after all, and a false one. And we found out we would have to question any information coming from this site.

pinholecam · 10-10-2013, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think Pentax is honest with where they get their sensors. Nikon is the issue since they need to have the appearance of having "special, made only for Nikon" sensors. Even if Sony/Toshiba supplies 95 percent of the tech and owns the fab where Nikon sensors are made, Nikon insists that the sensors are theirs. Pentax doesn't have any particular reason to hide where they get their sensors, since everyone knows they don't own a sensor fab.

This is common practice in many industries.
Large customers 'customize' their versions of the vendors components.
The simple ones are just a change in serial label.
The more complicated (usually the bigger companies) go to the extent of custom 'lock codes', eeprom information, etc.

falconeye · 10-10-2013, 05:26 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Adam

Nowhere did I say I knew who the manufacturer was for certain, nor did I confirm this spec.

As it appears to me from other member's archived versions, your original wording has been very clear that it is a confirmed fact.

Silent editing w/o apology doesn't make it any better, Adam. I don't really care, just trying to provide guidance in this possibly reputation-damaging situation.

Note:
The accepted way by bloggers is to add an updated note (and date) at the end of articles if they ever change the original version.

D1N0 · 10-10-2013, 06:10 AM

Dpreview thinks it's a Toshiba as well. When it's the old 24mp Sony then it will relatively suck at high iso. So there is a new Sony we don't know anything about? People on fora shouting it's this or that don't convince me. Logic says it's a Toshiba if it's a sony it might also be a Samsung or Aptina or whatever. Just a load of people wanting to be right. To me it's a Toshiba until Ricoh tells us something different or somebody takes apart a production k-3 and finds out.

jaad75 · 10-10-2013, 06:15 AM

I would rather prefer to have Pentax fighting with slightly more noisy but uniform Sony sensor output, than have the lower noise with banding texture from Toshiba.

**monochrome** · 10-10-2013, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

To me it's a Toshiba until Ricoh tells us something different or somebody takes apart a production k-3 and finds out.

To me, I don't know until somebody takes apart a production k-3 and finds out, takes a photo of the sensor and posts it in an article on, say, PetaPixel.

jogiba · 10-10-2013, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by Couscousdelight

Maybe, just maybe, Sony and Toshiba sensors are the same, Sony sells a sensor factory to Toshiba, with technology transfert in 2011 :
Image Sensors World: Toshiba and Sony Execute Manufacturing Transfer Agreement

"Nikkei adds that Sony controls about 70% of the market for image sensors for digital cameras. Sony aims to double its image sensor production capacity to 50,000 wafers a month by March 2012, from 25,000 currently. "

jaad75 · 10-10-2013, 06:21 AM

It's the old news. And Toshiba have their own sensor plant.

derekkite · 10-10-2013, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

There are no "exclusive periods penalties" now with Ricoh in the game.
It's an all new game.

Indeed. Sony could probably ignore a call from Pentax, but when Ricoh calls....

**monochrome** · 10-10-2013, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by derekkite

Indeed. Sony could probably ignore a call from Pentax, but when Ricoh calls....

You say that, and Uluru (changing his tone 180 degrees from just last week) says that, but I still don't get it. How many more sensors will Ricoh sell through than Pentax did? Does Ricoh buy that much more product from Sony in OE components? Or is Ricoh in fact a Sony competitor?

It's not like they're in the same keiretsu or something.

And I'm not being sarcastic. I really don't understand what difference Ricoh makes versus Hoya.

Rupert · 10-10-2013, 06:58 AM - **2 Likes**

I read this entire thread......don't know why really...but when you're laid up with a broken foot you'll read most anything to keep from going insane....and sometimes, it only makes you more insane!

I admit, I'm not a technical person, just an old squirrel shooter, at best......but I really don't care what sensor is in the K-3 as long as it works.
This sort of reminds me of back in high school when I landed a date for the prom with one of the most beautiful and popular girls in school. She had all the right specs, like the K-3, and I was certainly thrilled to give her a twirl, you can bet! Looking back, I don't recall having the slightest concern as to what brand of panties she might wear? Maybe I should have been more concerned....but I just wasn't....and my lack of concern was fully justified...I guarantee that too!

Still, not complaining about you guys, you helped me pass off another half hour of time......just a couple of months to go now!

Best Regards!

D1N0 · 10-10-2013, 07:01 AM

I think Sony's sensor division wants to sell as many sensors as possible, despite what the camera division says. It will make the sensor cheaper for both camera-makers because of economies of scale. Toshiba will have the same reasoning. They know Nikon will just as easily dump them for Sony next time so they also will have no problem giving the sensor to Ricoh.

konraDarnok · 10-10-2013, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

changing tone 180 degrees

Happens so often around here, I don't know who to take seriously.

derekkite · 10-10-2013, 07:09 AM

Bankruptcy, getting out of the business. Ricoh sitting down with Sony, laying out their investment plans and future design goals would get their attention. The engineer not talking over coffee of how insecure the job is, probing for opportunities.

How many folks were sitting on their hands before buying K mount lenses being uncertain whether the mount would be around?

Look at what Ricoh has done over the last year and a bit. They have a 4 step DSLR line now, from the K500 K50 K5II(s) and now K3. They have the GR, the Q, the MX the optio waterproof line. Most of them compelling offerings. More to come. There is always a risk involved in agreements like this, but dealing with someone with a solid cash flow, a clearly stated interest in a market and the evidence that they intend to go after it methodically would be noticed by Sony.

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10-10-2013, 03:39 AM	#61
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	Originally posted by Uluru There are no "exclusive periods penalties" now with Ricoh in the game. It's an all new game. I had been wondering about that

10-10-2013, 05:07 AM	#62
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Asahiflex So I thought that it was simply a fact that the K-3 uses a Toshiba sensor. After all, I should believe Adam, shouldn't I? I thought the same But apparently "confirmed" means "I read it on a site". It was just a supposition after all, and a false one. And we found out we would have to question any information coming from this site.

10-10-2013, 05:17 AM	#63
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Originally posted by Rondec I think Pentax is honest with where they get their sensors. Nikon is the issue since they need to have the appearance of having "special, made only for Nikon" sensors. Even if Sony/Toshiba supplies 95 percent of the tech and owns the fab where Nikon sensors are made, Nikon insists that the sensors are theirs. Pentax doesn't have any particular reason to hide where they get their sensors, since everyone knows they don't own a sensor fab. This is common practice in many industries. Large customers 'customize' their versions of the vendors components. The simple ones are just a change in serial label. The more complicated (usually the bigger companies) go to the extent of custom 'lock codes', eeprom information, etc.

10-10-2013, 05:26 AM - 1 Like	#64
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Adam Nowhere did I say I knew who the manufacturer was for certain, nor did I confirm this spec. As it appears to me from other member's archived versions, your original wording has been very clear that it is a *confirmed* fact. Silent editing w/o apology doesn't make it any better, Adam. I don't really care, just trying to provide guidance in this possibly reputation-damaging situation. Note: The accepted way by bloggers is to add an updated note (and date) at the end of articles if they ever change the original version.

10-10-2013, 06:10 AM	#65
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Dpreview thinks it's a Toshiba as well. When it's the old 24mp Sony then it will relatively suck at high iso. So there is a new Sony we don't know anything about? People on fora shouting it's this or that don't convince me. Logic says it's a Toshiba if it's a sony it might also be a Samsung or Aptina or whatever. Just a load of people wanting to be right. To me it's a Toshiba until Ricoh tells us something different or somebody takes apart a production k-3 and finds out.

10-10-2013, 06:15 AM	#66
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	I would rather prefer to have Pentax fighting with slightly more noisy but uniform Sony sensor output, than have the lower noise with banding texture from Toshiba.

10-10-2013, 06:16 AM	#67
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by D1N0 To me it's a Toshiba until Ricoh tells us something different or somebody takes apart a production k-3 and finds out. To me, I don't know until somebody takes apart a production k-3 and finds out, takes a photo of the sensor and posts it in an article on, say, PetaPixel.

10-10-2013, 06:18 AM	#68
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by Couscousdelight Maybe, just maybe, Sony and Toshiba sensors are the same, Sony sells a sensor factory to Toshiba, with technology transfert in 2011 : Image Sensors World: Toshiba and Sony Execute Manufacturing Transfer Agreement "Nikkei adds that Sony controls about 70% of the market for image sensors for digital cameras. Sony aims to double its image sensor production capacity to 50,000 wafers a month by March 2012, from 25,000 currently. "

10-10-2013, 06:21 AM	#69
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	It's the old news. And Toshiba have their own sensor plant.

10-10-2013, 06:30 AM	#70
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by Uluru There are no "exclusive periods penalties" now with Ricoh in the game. It's an all new game. Indeed. Sony could probably ignore a call from Pentax, but when Ricoh calls....

10-10-2013, 06:45 AM	#71
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by derekkite Indeed. Sony could probably ignore a call from Pentax, but when Ricoh calls.... You say that, and Uluru (changing his tone 180 degrees from just last week) says that, but I still don't get it. How many more sensors will Ricoh sell through than Pentax did? Does Ricoh buy that much more product from Sony in OE components? Or is Ricoh in fact a Sony competitor? It's not like they're in the same keiretsu or something. And I'm not being sarcastic. I really don't understand what difference Ricoh makes versus Hoya.

10-10-2013, 06:58 AM - 2 Likes	#72
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	I read this entire thread......don't know why really...but when you're laid up with a broken foot you'll read most anything to keep from going insane....and sometimes, it only makes you more insane! I admit, I'm not a technical person, just an old squirrel shooter, at best......but I really don't care what sensor is in the K-3 as long as it works. This sort of reminds me of back in high school when I landed a date for the prom with one of the most beautiful and popular girls in school. She had all the right specs, like the K-3, and I was certainly thrilled to give her a twirl, you can bet! Looking back, I don't recall having the slightest concern as to what brand of panties she might wear? Maybe I should have been more concerned....but I just wasn't....and my lack of concern was fully justified...I guarantee that too! Still, not complaining about you guys, you helped me pass off another half hour of time......just a couple of months to go now! Best Regards!

10-10-2013, 07:01 AM	#73
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	I think Sony's sensor division wants to sell as many sensors as possible, despite what the camera division says. It will make the sensor cheaper for both camera-makers because of economies of scale. Toshiba will have the same reasoning. They know Nikon will just as easily dump them for Sony next time so they also will have no problem giving the sensor to Ricoh.

10-10-2013, 07:07 AM	#74
konraDarnok Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Albums Posts: 969	Originally posted by monochrome changing tone 180 degrees Happens so often around here, I don't know who to take seriously.

10-10-2013, 07:09 AM	#75
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Bankruptcy, getting out of the business. Ricoh sitting down with Sony, laying out their investment plans and future design goals would get their attention. The engineer not talking over coffee of how insecure the job is, probing for opportunities. How many folks were sitting on their hands before buying K mount lenses being uncertain whether the mount would be around? Look at what Ricoh has done over the last year and a bit. They have a 4 step DSLR line now, from the K500 K50 K5II(s) and now K3. They have the GR, the Q, the MX the optio waterproof line. Most of them compelling offerings. More to come. There is always a risk involved in agreements like this, but dealing with someone with a solid cash flow, a clearly stated interest in a market and the evidence that they intend to go after it methodically would be noticed by Sony.