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04-10-2015, 09:44 PM   #16381
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
who actually have to take painkillers regularly because they suffer from chronic pain etc.
We be hanging out here...


Steve

04-10-2015, 09:59 PM   #16382
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QuoteOriginally posted by TinaS Quote
Of course, I am. I have a takumar 135 that could knock someone's lights out. If that doesn't work, I'll start spraying velveeta at people.
NOO not the VELVEETA!
04-10-2015, 11:21 PM   #16383
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
NOO not the VELVEETA!


I know this is an allusion to something, but what? It eludes me just now.
04-11-2015, 01:19 AM   #16384
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QuoteOriginally posted by jac Quote
Why are you talking about liver? This is a cheese thread.
I haven't had a good liver and onions in ages ... had one in a small town family restaurant a few years ago which was to die for ...



04-11-2015, 03:25 AM   #16385
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Yep, it would kill me to have to eat it.
04-11-2015, 03:33 AM   #16386
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QuoteOriginally posted by TinaS Quote
Tylenol isn't as bad as a lot of meds out there, but taken daily for a long period of time is hard on your liver, among other things. You're probably right about eating some "brownies"...
Actually it IS, that's the point I was trying to make. The latest studies that were released suggest the "safer" medication isn't so safe after all. Taking Tylenol etc they've found it ups your stroke quite a bit. It's not just the liver thing. That's been known for a while. That there is a real stroke risk that's new info. For years it was thought Tylenol and the generics were much safer than taking Motrin, Aleve, etc. Unfortunately it's apparently not. It was all over the news recently. All these people, like me, who have major chronic pain and who have been told so long as they keep the dosage within safe limits every day are now apparently supposed to stop taking or at least extremely limit the only OTC painkiller that wasn't a proper NSAID. Me, I can't take NSAIDS at all so losing Tylenol is a real problem for me.

Between that and the limits on the harder scripted painkillers it's getting harder and harder to find anything you can take for chronic pain. My one doctor he won't script anything for anyone now that's not OTC unless they've just had surgery and even then it's only Tylenol 3 or Stronger Ibuprofin if his patient can take that. His days of handing out Vico, Darvo, Oxy, long gone apparently. He doesn't care how much pain there is, he's too afraid of being busted for pill pushing to go there anymore even when the need is legit. Fortunately for me my Dad's doctor isn't that strict and Dad doesn't really like to take the Vico's he's been given anyway. :P I don't resort to it often because opioid drugs make me sick to my stomach and in the end it only deadens the pain so far anyway, but there are times when Tylenol just doesn't cut it and I break out the Vico just so I can function. A bottle of 100 of them lasts me a very long time but still it's nice to have the option.

The pain is really bad sometimes but that's not actually the only reason I want to try weed. I have neural problems related to my autoimmune disease and to damage my back has taken. I have symptoms that are very suggestive of MS but I don't actually have MS I have several autoimmune disease the main one being Lupus. Supposedly using medical marijuana helps people with MS and similar conditions sometimes. I want to see if it will help me on that score. If it can help with pain too that would be great but I'm more worried about the muscle weakness, tremors and that than I am the pain. The pain can be bad, but the other stuff can affect my ability to do my work a lot when it gets bad.

You know it's funny I never think while I am taking it that the pain killers and muscle relaxants they gave me do any real good, but then when I have to go without completely for a while I realize that while I am still hurting they actually do take the edge off at least. I had just run out and so I went completely without for a few days after I read about the stroke risk thing. I figured why take it at all if it wasn't going to help that much if it was a stroke risk? Yeah, right, beginning of the warm weather, my worst time of the year, 4 days sans any Tylenol and I was practically bedridden. I would be sitting here in my computer chair trying just to read an email and I'd be near to tears I'd be hurting so bad.

People who scoff at any kind of pain management and think anyone who takes regular pain killers is just an addict type sometimes they just don't understand how bad chronic pain can be. I try to be kind to my liver, tough it out as much as I can, but I'm not a masochist and I really don't enjoy the level of pain I have to endure sometimes. When I was in my 20's and I was first getting the warning signs of all this I took not being in pain most of the time completely for granted. The only time I took Tylenol was for cramps and migraines. In the end the stroke risk, the potential liver damage, it scares me, but the chronic pain wins. It's a quality of life issue. I mean what's the point of having a longer life if you're in so much pain it sucks all the time?

You'd think by now, 2015 and all, they could come up with an OTC pain killer that doesn't come with a nasty trade off in side effects or risks, but apparently not, sigh. I wish I could just get a card and go find a weed clinic, but unfortunately the legislators in my state are a bunch of hard arsed lunatics when it comes to medical pot. Not going to happen, not for a long time, if ever, unfortunately, which is why when my Dad goes I'm heading west if I can still make it by then...
04-11-2015, 06:32 AM   #16387
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Enough taken in a short period of time will simply kill you outright!


Steve
Not only that, but most people would be surprised to find out how relatively little is enough to kill you if ingested all at once. It's been many years since my medic days, but as I remember it, 10 grams (20 extra strength tabs) will turn your liver into a yellow-green mush.
04-11-2015, 06:53 AM   #16388
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Not only that, but most people would be surprised to find out how relatively little is enough to kill you if ingested all at once. It's been many years since my medic days, but as I remember it, 10 grams (20 extra strength tabs) will turn your liver into a yellow-green mush.
My wife is a Pharmacist, and she reminds now and then about the danger here ... she thinks that I forget.

I rarely take any, and if so, it's a few normal doses over the recommended time spans.

04-11-2015, 07:03 AM   #16389
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As you get older chronic pain gets to be crippling. Nothing you can do about it. it's a matter of when, not if.... at least if something else doesn't get you first. My doctor encourages me not to take more than 50 Ibuprofen a month. When you don't sleep well when you don't take it, and the level of inflammation in your joints increases every day you don't have at least one, that gets to be quite problematic. So you end up gambling with the odds. If I don't take it, the lack of sleep could lead to serious health consequences. If I do take it I could get into the cycle of it being less and less effective and needing more and more. I try and get two or three days at a time when I don't take anything. But by the end of those three days, I'm barely moving and completely sleep deprived. Every year older, it's like being squeezed. The problems are worse, the treatment options are fewer. Pain management becomes part of the game plan. But it's better than the alternative... and I still get out and play volleyball with the local kids once a week. ( And I still go airborne to hit and block. My hang time isa small fraction of what it was even 10 years ago, but I still drove a ball into the floor 3 feet from the net a couple weeks ago.) It hurts, but it's my way of never giving in. And I have to say, having Tess as my personal live in trainer keeps me on the exercise machines and weights. It used to be about being fit and looking good. Now it's about keeping myself as healthy as possible. Nothing is better for joints and pains than a tailor made work out. Some of my exercises now, I can't even lift any weight, just the empty bar, but it keeps me flexible and moving. It hurts if I do it, but it hurts more if I don't do it, a week or two later. You learn to handle a bit of discomfort now, to avoid really serious , mobility influencing issues later. And to manage those pain drugs. Pain management should be a mandatory course for anyone getting on, and in fact is offered free to seniors at the nearest community college to us.

It's not about curing anything, it's all about managing the downward spiral. And I've seen guys close to a 90 who could still move a bit, so don't be thinking it can't be done or is a waste of time.

Last edited by normhead; 04-11-2015 at 07:23 AM.
04-11-2015, 07:25 AM   #16390
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And I've seen guys close to a 90 who could still move a bit, so don't be thinking it can't be done or is a waste of time.
My paternal grandfather is 93 now and moving, but not much. He declined quite rapidly over the last two years or so after a couple of injuries, both physically and mentally. Until he was 88 or so he was still happily cycling around.
04-11-2015, 08:46 AM   #16391
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Actually it IS, that's the point I was trying to make. The latest studies that were released suggest the "safer" medication isn't so safe after all. Taking Tylenol etc they've found it ups your stroke quite a bit. It's not just the liver thing. That's been known for a while. That there is a real stroke risk that's new info. For years it was thought Tylenol and the generics were much safer than taking Motrin, Aleve, etc. Unfortunately it's apparently not. It was all over the news recently. All these people, like me, who have major chronic pain and who have been told so long as they keep the dosage within safe limits every day are now apparently supposed to stop taking or at least extremely limit the only OTC painkiller that wasn't a proper NSAID. Me, I can't take NSAIDS at all so losing Tylenol is a real problem for me.

Between that and the limits on the harder scripted painkillers it's getting harder and harder to find anything you can take for chronic pain. My one doctor he won't script anything for anyone now that's not OTC unless they've just had surgery and even then it's only Tylenol 3 or Stronger Ibuprofin if his patient can take that. His days of handing out Vico, Darvo, Oxy, long gone apparently. He doesn't care how much pain there is, he's too afraid of being busted for pill pushing to go there anymore even when the need is legit. Fortunately for me my Dad's doctor isn't that strict and Dad doesn't really like to take the Vico's he's been given anyway. :P I don't resort to it often because opioid drugs make me sick to my stomach and in the end it only deadens the pain so far anyway, but there are times when Tylenol just doesn't cut it and I break out the Vico just so I can function. A bottle of 100 of them lasts me a very long time but still it's nice to have the option.

The pain is really bad sometimes but that's not actually the only reason I want to try weed. I have neural problems related to my autoimmune disease and to damage my back has taken. I have symptoms that are very suggestive of MS but I don't actually have MS I have several autoimmune disease the main one being Lupus. Supposedly using medical marijuana helps people with MS and similar conditions sometimes. I want to see if it will help me on that score. If it can help with pain too that would be great but I'm more worried about the muscle weakness, tremors and that than I am the pain. The pain can be bad, but the other stuff can affect my ability to do my work a lot when it gets bad.

You know it's funny I never think while I am taking it that the pain killers and muscle relaxants they gave me do any real good, but then when I have to go without completely for a while I realize that while I am still hurting they actually do take the edge off at least. I had just run out and so I went completely without for a few days after I read about the stroke risk thing. I figured why take it at all if it wasn't going to help that much if it was a stroke risk? Yeah, right, beginning of the warm weather, my worst time of the year, 4 days sans any Tylenol and I was practically bedridden. I would be sitting here in my computer chair trying just to read an email and I'd be near to tears I'd be hurting so bad.

People who scoff at any kind of pain management and think anyone who takes regular pain killers is just an addict type sometimes they just don't understand how bad chronic pain can be. I try to be kind to my liver, tough it out as much as I can, but I'm not a masochist and I really don't enjoy the level of pain I have to endure sometimes. When I was in my 20's and I was first getting the warning signs of all this I took not being in pain most of the time completely for granted. The only time I took Tylenol was for cramps and migraines. In the end the stroke risk, the potential liver damage, it scares me, but the chronic pain wins. ..
I haven't see the study to which you're referring. I checked a couple of my resources and can't find it. But I'll definitely not go against anything your doctor tells you. The reason I mentioned the risk to the liver is because in your previous post you had mentioned you had a bad liver.

In most cases, NSAIDs aren't bad. The exception is if someone is sensitive to them, like you, or if they have other risk factors that would increase risk of stroke, etc. NSAIDs are an anti inflammatory, and sometimes people need that. The problem with any meds, is long-term daily use can lead to serious problems (or overdose would naturally). Unfortunately, people who suffer from chronic pain aren't left with many options. The fact is, we depend on man made chemicals, and our bodies have to process those chemicals. It's a catch 22 for those who need something to deal with pain.

---------- Post added 04-11-15 at 11:11 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
As you get older chronic pain gets to be crippling. Nothing you can do about it. it's a matter of when, not if.... at least if something else doesn't get you first. My doctor encourages me not to take more than 50 Ibuprofen a month. When you don't sleep well when you don't take it, and the level of inflammation in your joints increases every day you don't have at least one, that gets to be quite problematic. So you end up gambling with the odds. If I don't take it, the lack of sleep could lead to serious health consequences. If I do take it I could get into the cycle of it being less and less effective and needing more and more. I try and get two or three days at a time when I don't take anything. But by the end of those three days, I'm barely moving and completely sleep deprived. Every year older, it's like being squeezed. The problems are worse, the treatment options are fewer. Pain management becomes part of the game plan. But it's better than the alternative... and I still get out and play volleyball with the local kids once a week. ( And I still go airborne to hit and block. My hang time isa small fraction of what it was even 10 years ago, but I still drove a ball into the floor 3 feet from the net a couple weeks ago.) It hurts, but it's my way of never giving in. And I have to say, having Tess as my personal live in trainer keeps me on the exercise machines and weights. It used to be about being fit and looking good. Now it's about keeping myself as healthy as possible. Nothing is better for joints and pains than a tailor made work out. Some of my exercises now, I can't even lift any weight, just the empty bar, but it keeps me flexible and moving. It hurts if I do it, but it hurts more if I don't do it, a week or two later. You learn to handle a bit of discomfort now, to avoid really serious , mobility influencing issues later. And to manage those pain drugs. Pain management should be a mandatory course for anyone getting on, and in fact is offered free to seniors at the nearest community college to us.

It's not about curing anything, it's all about managing the downward spiral. And I've seen guys close to a 90 who could still move a bit, so don't be thinking it can't be done or is a waste of time.
My husband and I are in our 40's. We deal with pain on a regular basis. We try to manage pain without meds most of the time, but will use Advil when it's really bad. Like you, it will keep me from sleeping a lot of nights, so sometimes that Advil has to come more often than I would like. I can't do my job on no sleep, and my health gets worse without it. I don't like narcotics - my body is sensitive to a lot of drugs. I'll only take them in extreme circumstances, and then only half the dose. I find yoga to be my best friend in pain management. When I do yoga regularly, I don't hurt as much, or at all. I know I need to start doing more strengthening exercises as well, but it's something I have to work toward. I've been trying to get my husband on board with exercising, but he has been pretty resistant. He usually only sees the need when his back has a flare up. My best bet to get him to get some exercise is to say, "hey let's grab our cameras and go for a hike." With warmer weather here, I'm hoping we can do some more of that. I would like to start playing tennis again, but I don't think his back is up to that right now.

Last edited by TinaS; 04-11-2015 at 09:15 AM.
04-11-2015, 09:51 AM   #16392
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QuoteOriginally posted by TinaS Quote
With warmer weather here, I'm hoping we can do some more of that. I would like to start playing tennis again, but I don't think his back is up to that right now.
Have you tried swimming? Very enjoyable, can be anything from relaxing to extremely exhausting (depending on how far/fast you go) and is pretty gentle on the joints/back.
04-11-2015, 10:01 AM   #16393
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Have you tried swimming? Very enjoyable, can be anything from relaxing to extremely exhausting (depending on how far/fast you go) and is pretty gentle on the joints/back.
You're right about that. We usually only swim maybe once a year. It's something to think about though.
04-11-2015, 10:08 AM   #16394
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QuoteOriginally posted by TinaS Quote
You're right about that. We usually only swim maybe once a year. It's something to think about though.
My grandfather swam in his pool every morning until he was 91, I think it's one of the main things that kept him up and healthy for so long
04-11-2015, 10:22 AM   #16395
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
My grandfather swam in his pool every morning until he was 91, I think it's one of the main things that kept him up and healthy for so long
I just hate chlorine....
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