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10-16-2013, 10:46 PM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
No...neither am I really. It just galls me that so many on this forum seem to care so little about Pentax as a brand that they not only willingly roll over and let this happen, they seem to actively support it instead of fighting back. I know it seems like a little thing, but it really isn't. It is a big thing. If this happened to Canon or Nikon all h-e-double toothpicks would break out. But somehow there are a lot of us here on the biggest Pentax forum who not only think this is a good thing, we throw up 17 pages of posts to run down the only guy who has the cajones to bring the subject up.
It seems to me everyone is getting rather upset about something which is yet to occur, and appears unlikely to occur. Unless it has escaped your notice, Pentax is written in bold letters on the front of the prism housing on the K-3, the same as it has been on Pentax brand cameras for a long time. The fact that Ricoh is on the back is pretty much irrelevant isn't it?

10-16-2013, 10:53 PM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
No...neither am I really. It just galls me that so many on this forum seem to care so little about Pentax as a brand that they not only willingly roll over and let this happen, they seem to actively support it instead of fighting back. I know it seems like a little thing, but it really isn't. It is a big thing. If this happened to Canon or Nikon all h-e-double toothpicks would break out. But somehow there are a lot of us here on the biggest Pentax forum who not only think this is a good thing, we throw up 17 pages of posts to run down the only guy who has the cajones to bring the subject up.
It's funny how the guy who brought up the subject of Ricoh not being loyal to Pentax just spent $9,000 on his new Canon lens. I always get a kick that people who value choice and value deciding what is best for them expect that businesses that do that same are not being loyal.

It's either a good product or it isn't.
10-16-2013, 10:53 PM - 1 Like   #258
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Did people boycott Pentax when Honeywell was on the prism?

"Pentax" was a word invented by Zeiss for a camera with a Pentaprism..... It was simply a name owned by Zeiss. Now it is a name owned by Ricoh.
10-16-2013, 11:12 PM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Did people boycott Pentax when Honeywell was on the prism?

"Pentax" was a word invented by Zeiss for a camera with a Pentaprism..... It was simply a name owned by Zeiss. Now it is a name owned by Ricoh.
Ah yes, but what's in a name? It may have started life that way but that name now contains the history and heritage of a great camera. But I guess tradition, history and heritage don't mean a lot anymore. But once you have lost it, it is gone. It becomes just another footnote in history.

Pentax is not just the K-Mount. It is also the M42 mount, which was also borrowed from Germany, just like many things in the early days of the Japanese camera industry. Before that it was the M37 mount and the very first Japanese built SLR. Way before Nikon got into SLRs.

But, like you said, it is only a name...who cares.

10-16-2013, 11:18 PM - 2 Likes   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
Ah yes, but what's in a name? It may have started life that way but that name now contains the history and heritage of a great camera. But I guess tradition, history and heritage don't mean a lot anymore. But once you have lost it, it is gone. It becomes just another footnote in history.

Pentax is not just the K-Mount. It is also the M42 mount, which was also borrowed from Germany, just like many things in the early days of the Japanese camera industry. Before that it was the M37 mount and the very first Japanese built SLR. Way before Nikon got into SLRs.

But, like you said, it is only a name...who cares.
At the risk of being accused of repeating myself. Have you not noticed PENTAX is written in bold letters in the prism housing of the K-3?
There is no evidence at all to suggest Ricoh has any intention of dropping the Pentax brand name. This thread really is ridiculous.
10-16-2013, 11:39 PM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
This is supposedly one of the most influential Pentax forums in existence. If everyone on this website actively boycotted the K-3 until Ricoh agreed to take their name off the back of the camera do you think they would change their minds?
Of course they wouldn't. They would just think everyone on this website had lost sight of reality! But of course there is no chance that this would happen - lots of people in these forums want the K-3.

My first SLR said Asahi Pentax on the front. Its lenses were Takumar lenses from Asahi Optical - there were no such things as Pentax lenses. The camera strap didn't say Pentax.

I've pre-ordered the K-3. Its specifications, and the way Ricoh have talked about it and promoted it, have restored my confidence in the continuation of K-mount family. And unlike my first SLR, it says just "Pentax" on the front, and all the lenses say "Pentax" (etc). I will not use the Pentax strap that comes with the camera - my straps will say "Peak Design" instead.
10-16-2013, 11:46 PM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merts Quote
At the risk of being accused of repeating myself. Have you not noticed PENTAX is written in bold letters in the prism housing of the K-3?
There is no evidence at all to suggest Ricoh has any intention of dropping the Pentax brand name. This thread really is ridiculous.
Sorry I have not yet responded to your point, which btw I acknowledge. My concern has to do with the dilution of that brand by prominently adding the Ricoh brand to the back of the camera where every user looks at it every time they pick up and use their camera.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I will wait and see but so far I am not encouraged. Maybe we can explore why I feel that way.

One - Pentax Ricoh Imaging Corporation was formed in October 2011. In August 2013 that was quietly changed to Ricoh Imaging Company. Why?

Two - Change the name of the website. Ricoh is prominently displayed at the top of the page. The Pentax name still appears on some of the cameras being displayed.

Three - "The company’s goal is to leverage the tremendous strength and awareness of the Ricoh brand along with the superior technical innovation of Pentax products to deliver a world- class consumer experience." This is a quote. The stated intent here is to promote the Ricoh brand using Pentax technology. Pretty clear.

Four - As indicated in the announcement in August 2013 Ricoh puts their brand name in a visible location on the first camera officially distributed after the announcement.

Where does this lead? What are the next steps? Like everyone else, I don't know. As I already said, I will have to wait and see. But this certainly looks like a pretty clear pattern to me. Ricoh clearly intends to promote their brand using Pentax technology.

I do hope I am wrong. I really, really do.
10-16-2013, 11:51 PM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
Of course they wouldn't. They would just think everyone on this website had lost sight of reality! But of course there is no chance that this would happen - lots of people in these forums want the K-3.

My first SLR said Asahi Pentax on the front. Its lenses were Takumar lenses from Asahi Optical - there were no such things as Pentax lenses. The camera strap didn't say Pentax.

I've pre-ordered the K-3. Its specifications, and the way Ricoh have talked about it and promoted it, have restored my confidence in the continuation of K-mount family. And unlike my first SLR, it says just "Pentax" on the front, and all the lenses say "Pentax" (etc). I will not use the Pentax strap that comes with the camera - my straps will say "Peak Design" instead.
Thanks Barry. I hope you enjoy the camera, it looks like it will be a good one.

BTW, my straps are leather, they don't have anyone's brand on them.

10-16-2013, 11:53 PM   #264
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Out of interest, is anyone so Pentax pure that they wouldn't have a lens with "Tokina" or "Sigma" or even "Takumar" on the front of their camera? Isn't that "diluting the brand"?
10-17-2013, 12:02 AM   #265
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God Forbid!!!

Of course. It is great fun.

Two of my favorite lenses; a very nice Sigma 50/2.8 Macro; a CV Apo Lanthar 90/3.5. The first one lives on my PZ-1p, I am not sure it will even come off anymore. The second one is almost a permanent attachment to my LX.
10-17-2013, 12:09 AM   #266
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Don't get me wrong: I am sad that Pentax couldn't make it on their own. I was sad when Hoya took it over, but perhaps my sadness was tinged with a bit of relief when Ricoh bought the camera division from them, as Hoya didn't seem to include the Pentax camera brand in their long-term plans. What would have made me even sadder would have been if Pentax had died on the vine, and no-one made K-mount cameras any more. That would have left me with a lot of lenses, and a few hard choices.
10-17-2013, 12:18 AM - 1 Like   #267
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Possible answers in red:
QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
Sorry I have not yet responded to your point, which btw I acknowledge. My concern has to do with the dilution of that brand by prominently adding the Ricoh brand to the back of the camera where every user looks at it every time they pick up and use their camera.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I will wait and see but so far I am not encouraged. Maybe we can explore why I feel that way.

One - Pentax Ricoh Imaging Corporation was formed in October 2011. In August 2013 that was quietly changed to Ricoh Imaging Company. Why?
Integration of Pentax Ricoh Imaging Corporation within Ricoh was complete. Ricoh has much larger plans than consumer cameras...
Two - Change the name of the website. Ricoh is prominently displayed at the top of the page. The Pentax name still appears on some of the cameras being displayed.
Because of the previous point.
Three - "The company’s goal is to leverage the tremendous strength and awareness of the Ricoh brand along with the superior technical innovation of Pentax products to deliver a world- class consumer experience." This is a quote. The stated intent here is to promote the Ricoh brand using Pentax technology. Pretty clear.
Misinterpreted. Ricoh repeatedly stated they will continue to use the Pentax brand.
Four - As indicated in the announcement in August 2013 Ricoh puts their brand name in a visible location on the first camera officially distributed after the announcement.
And the Pentax brand is very visible, on the pentaprism.
Where does this lead? What are the next steps? Like everyone else, I don't know. As I already said, I will have to wait and see. But this certainly looks like a pretty clear pattern to me. Ricoh clearly intends to promote their brand using Pentax technology.
Next step is a stream of Pentax-branded and Ricoh-branded products for consumer camera business, security, factory automation and whatever other fields Ricoh Imaging will want to pursue.
I do hope I am wrong. I really, really do.
You are wrong. You really, really are - just don't want to see it.
I posted on the News and Rumors section a link about a Ricoh presentation - Pentax was mentioned a lot for a small acquisition. And what do you make out of: "Further strive to enhance a strong brand built around interchangeable lens cameras"?
http://www.ricoh.com/IR/pdf/presentation_text_2013.pdf
http://www.ricoh.com/IR/data/pre/pdf/ir_pre2013.pdf
10-17-2013, 01:54 AM   #268
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Just ... wow.

If I was an event shooter, I would tape over the camera logos on principle. Any camera. If someone asked me what camera I was using, I'd give them the evil eye and tell them it doesn't matter.

I have owned several Ricoh cameras, including a really nice Ricoh rangefinder from the 1950's. I'd have no problem with them moving to Ricoh branding on the prism of their dSLR's... but I do think out of respect (and prudence) they should not re-brand what are existing model lines. And I see no indication to suggest they will. Ricoh logo on the back of the K-3? Why anyone would be at all bothered by this I cannot imagine...
10-17-2013, 02:01 AM - 1 Like   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
Sorry I have not yet responded to your point, which btw I acknowledge. My concern has to do with the dilution of that brand by prominently adding the Ricoh brand to the back of the camera where every user looks at it every time they pick up and use their camera.

...........

I do hope I am wrong. I really, really do.
Kunzite saved me from having to respond to all of your points Pioneer, so I will just comment on what I've left in the quote above. I don't think the RICOH on the back of the K-3 is even all that prominent. To be honest I don't notice PENTAX on the back of my K-5 II either. Generally when I'm using it I will be looking through the viewfinder. I reckon other people might notice the large PENTAX on the front of the camera though.

I'm also quite confident that Ricoh wouldn't have spent the amount of time and money they have promoting the brand and developing products if they intended to shelve it. It really doesn't make any sense.
10-17-2013, 03:36 AM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
...I guess tradition, history and heritage don't mean a lot anymore.
They do...and they don't. They do matter because they carry weight with consumers and people will buy products based upon them. But they don't matter because they can be bought and sold and often have no real connection to that history and tradition beyond a name. It's a bit of a placebo. I love Pentax cameras. I'm about the only one left in my camera club still shooting them. There used to be a lot of us, but the others have all switched. So I'm fairly loyal to the brand. For me, Cynog Ap Brychan said it well a few post back. I'm sad that Pentax couldn't make it on their own, but I would have been sadder still if the Pentax brand and K-mount had vanished completely. The reason I'm not upset about "Ricoh" being on the back of the K3 is because the time when I was mad was a few years ago when Pentax got sold to Hoya. Since then, I've been waiting and watching to see where things are headed. You see the "Ricoh" on the back of the K3 and are unhappy. I see the great camera it looks to be and the promise it holds...and am not.
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