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10-17-2013, 05:23 AM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
Ah yes, but what's in a name? It may have started life that way but that name now contains the history and heritage of a great camera. But I guess tradition, history and heritage don't mean a lot anymore.
Actually Ricoh putting its name on the camera is no different than Honeywell or Asahi Optical Co. Ricoh putting its name on the back of the camera fits in with "tradition".

I get the feeling you just don't like it and are looking for something to complain about.

10-17-2013, 05:24 AM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
S

Four - As indicated in the announcement in August 2013 Ricoh puts their brand name in a visible location on the first camera officially distributed after the announcement.
I think the point that's being missed here is not so much the addition of RICOH to the rear of the camera but the complete absence of PENTAX from the rear. On the margin, for some people undecided whether to upgrade to K-5II(s) or K-3, it may push them towards the K-5 series option or even another brand altogether, therefore harming the prospects of success of K-3. Whether the logic of such people is flawed or not matters not; what matters is the result.

But I do wonder if RICOH simply made too hurried a decision, without thinking it through. Clearly, it was a last minute decision, otherwise the pre-production K-3s would also have had just RICOH on the back. It smacks of someone high up, from outside the RICOH optical division, reviewing the (almost) finished product and forcing so a late policy change that it couldn't be implemented well in the timescale to launch... and that "someone" not realising that everyone would know about their late decision, because of the pre-production versions already out in the wild.

As I said earlier, the best way to have implemented this would have been to put PENTAX by Ricoh or similar on the back, either where it is or with the two names separated. But they didn't (I suspect) have time to think it through and do it what I would call properly. However many times PENTAX is emblazoned on the camera front, it should not be missing completely from the rear.

My verdict is: cock-up not conspiracy (as we Brits would say). I don't think Ricoh will sell any more K-3s because of it, but they may sell a few less - and that is not good.

Last edited by Dave L; 10-17-2013 at 05:30 AM.
10-17-2013, 06:02 AM - 4 Likes   #273
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With apologies to Shakespeare

'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Ricoh.
What's Ricoh? it is nor lens, nor shutter,
Nor prism, nor body, nor any other part
Belonging to a camera. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So K-3 would, were it not K-3 call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which it owes
Without that title. K-3, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.
10-17-2013, 06:10 AM   #274
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LOL - I think that whirring sound is the Bard spinning in his grave!

10-17-2013, 06:27 AM - 1 Like   #275
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This thread would not even exist if Ricoh had decided to print "Manufactured by Ricoh Imaging Co., Ltd." on the bottom of the camera as Hoya and Pentax did. Pentax is a much stonger brand backed by Ricoh than it was backed (or NOT backed) by Hoya; and much stonger than it was alone.

I think printing Ricoh on the LCD is a very positive decision - it reminds potential new buyers that the brand is actively supported by the 279th largest company on earth, not merely custodied until sale by a disinterested corporate raider.

For that reason - because Ricoh has manned-up and printed their name visibly on the camera - I will refrain from sellinge everything and buying Nikon.

I will buy a Pentax K-3 made by the proud company Ricoh.
10-17-2013, 06:37 AM   #276
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Wow! The things that make a thread, here. I check in from a long absence to get some 411 on the new body, and the threads are about the brand name on the back and whether the moderator of the board accurately stated the brand of the sensor.

Why I probably won't buy the K3 (right now) is that I don't know whether, on balance, an actual production copy is likely to improve upon my K5. I still remember the sensor stains and all kinds of other glitches which usually keep me from being an early adopter.

Last edited by GeneV; 10-17-2013 at 06:51 AM.
10-17-2013, 07:05 AM - 1 Like   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Wow! The things that make a thread, here. I check in from a long absence to get some 411 on the new body, and the threads are about the brand name on the back and whether the moderator of the board accurately stated the brand of the sensor.
Good to see ya Gene; well said.

I won't be buying a K-3 unless the DR or ISO performance is significantly better than my incoming K-5iis. I'd rather save up for the mythical full frame. Then again, I primarily use manual focus, so the AF improvements to the K-3 aren't for me. I do like the new metering system, and the .95 VF magnification.
10-17-2013, 07:24 AM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
No...neither am I really. It just galls me that so many on this forum seem to care so little about Pentax as a brand that they not only willingly roll over and let this happen, they seem to actively support it instead of fighting back. I know it seems like a little thing, but it really isn't. It is a big thing. If this happened to Canon or Nikon all h-e-double toothpicks would break out. But somehow there are a lot of us here on the biggest Pentax forum who not only think this is a good thing, we throw up 17 pages of posts to run down the only guy who has the cajones to bring the subject up.
I know what you mean. As with you, the name ' Pentax' does mean something to me.

The brand has been my prime camera for 45 years and I've got and bought (new) an awful lot of Pentax equipment over those years.

To a certain extent I'm a traditionalist and a brand loyalist.

An analogy...good or bad is the automotive enthusiast scene.

I'm part of that. I'm also a car guy or as they phrase it now...a gearhead.

I've been a Chevy fan for over half a century. As other motor fans know the biggest rivalry in motordom...North American motordom anyways... is Ford vs Chevy . Sales, which is the 'best', which wins races, etc.

But other....much smaller.... automotive brands have their strong, vocal adherents which are just as loyal. Dodge, Buick fans are examples.


The camera equivalent is the Canon vs Nikon wars that have been going on for many a year.
Now Pentax isn't Ford or Chevy...but it certainly could be considered the equivalent of Dodge or Buick....in the camera enthusiast world. There are a number of strong Pentax fans....yes fewer than the big two (Canikon)...but still out there.

During the past 45 years there were two times I considered switching brands from Pentax. Both times....early '70's it was Nikon (almost bought a Nikon F Photomic) and then in 2007 after much decision decided to get the Pentax K10D and associated equipment (digital lenses, etc.) as opposed to making a clean break of it and choosing a new brand....Nikon (Nikon D200) .

A good part of this decision came down to the fact that my favoured brand...even though I've had Mamiya, Olympus and Leica over the years....is Pentax.

I have said before that I'm very appreciative of what Ricoh has done/is doing for the Pentax brand.....but in the end I do hope that Ricoh realizes that there are a lot of long term customers who are Pentaxians....and who if they have their druthers...wish to stay that way.

Pentax is a well known brand with a long history and recognized 'name' in photography. The name has that intangible factor...value.


Last edited by lesmore49; 10-17-2013 at 07:34 AM.
10-17-2013, 07:51 AM   #279
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Maybe it would have been better if they'd put Pentax on the back, and Ricoh on the front.

Then at least the brand die-hards would see Pentax when they picked up the camera, and it wouldn't grate so much, and the people that they point it at, that probably don't care, would see the company name, which is possibly what Ricoh were hoping for anyway.

Seems daft to me, to stick the bit they want to publicise on the back where only the owner (who doesn't need to be marketed at) will see it.

It's this that makes me think that it was a bit of a pointless exercise anyway, putting Ricoh on the back.
10-17-2013, 08:10 AM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Wow! The things that make a thread, here. I check in from a long absence to get some 411 on the new body, and the threads are about the brand name on the back and whether the moderator of the board accurately stated the brand of the sensor.
Yes, making mountains out of mole hills.
10-17-2013, 10:46 AM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I will refrain from sellinge everything and buying Nikon.
Good decision!!

I was in Costco yesterday and handled the D7100. All apologies to the Nikon folk, but it feels cheap in the hand and has a terrible tunnel-visioned viewfinder. Perhaps Mitsubishi branding might be a good idea there.


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10-17-2013, 11:32 AM   #282
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I don't really get it. There was a time, not too long after Hoya purchased Pentax, that I was sure that they were going to kill the camera business and just keep the Pentax medical business alive. The move to digital cameras had been botched earlier and the camera division was bleeding red ink. My best hope for continued K mount support was actually that Samsung would continue to make photos in the line of the GX 10.

The Ricoh purchase puts things on solid footing. They have invested a lot of money in R and D. They are keeping the K Mount. They are getting good sensors from Sony. They may put out a full frame camera next year. And if the price of those things is a prominent display of the Ricoh name on the camera, so be it.

To me, the K3 looks to have the bones and genetics of the Pentax line of cameras and that's what matters.

Pentax is just a brand and that's all it has been for several years now. But it is being supported by a company that sees a future in the brand and that's all I can ask for.
10-17-2013, 12:23 PM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't really get it. There was a time, not too long after Hoya purchased Pentax, that I was sure that they were going to kill the camera business and just keep the Pentax medical business alive. The move to digital cameras had been botched earlier and the camera division was bleeding red ink. My best hope for continued K mount support was actually that Samsung would continue to make photos in the line of the GX 10.

The Ricoh purchase puts things on solid footing. They have invested a lot of money in R and D. They are keeping the K Mount. They are getting good sensors from Sony. They may put out a full frame camera next year. And if the price of those things is a prominent display of the Ricoh name on the camera, so be it.

To me, the K3 looks to have the bones and genetics of the Pentax line of cameras and that's what matters.

Pentax is just a brand and that's all it has been for several years now. But it is being supported by a company that sees a future in the brand and that's all I can ask for.
Apparently Hoya had always intended to sell of the camera business when they bought Pentax. So they did it and I would have to say that at least Ricoh looks like they really want it and are proud of it so they want their name on the products. All good and positive looking as long as they maintain the brand.
10-17-2013, 12:26 PM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffshaddix Quote
Good to see ya Gene; well said.

I won't be buying a K-3 unless the DR or ISO performance is significantly better than my incoming K-5iis. I'd rather save up for the mythical full frame. Then again, I primarily use manual focus, so the AF improvements to the K-3 aren't for me. I do like the new metering system, and the .95 VF magnification.
I'm glad to hear it. I recently bought my K5II and would have to agree that its not been made obsolete by the K3. In fact I'm just discovering some of its features like lens correction. It works great! My DA17-70 has nice straight edge RAW images now!
10-17-2013, 01:58 PM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffshaddix Quote
Good to see ya Gene; well said.

I won't be buying a K-3 unless the DR or ISO performance is significantly better than my incoming K-5iis. I'd rather save up for the mythical full frame. Then again, I primarily use manual focus, so the AF improvements to the K-3 aren't for me. I do like the new metering system, and the .95 VF magnification.
Good to hear from another 'Burque Pentaxian.
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