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11-21-2017, 02:44 AM - 2 Likes   #41986
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
I would not want to try it on for a 4x4 offroad adventure. For that I'd prefer my scratchy old Landrover!
I just tried imagining travelling around Namibia in a Tesla.

Well, at least I tried

11-21-2017, 02:45 AM - 1 Like   #41987
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
The numbers I have found say that about 25% of new cars sold in Norway so far this year are fully electric, with another 25% being hybrid dinosaur/electric driven. The increase in electric cars has come very quickly indeed, and it doesn't look like the trend is about to turn.
And running cost is a major factor. A full charge for a Tesla Model 3 costs $11.25 at night and $21 during the daytime. And that's for almost 500km. Try filing a car up for that! We pay nearly $2 per litre of petrol. So, a 500km journey would cost somewhere between $70 and $140 depending on the car's engine size and efficiency. That's petrol cost only - not accounting for servicing etc.
11-21-2017, 02:51 AM - 2 Likes   #41988
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
And running cost is a major factor. A full charge for a Tesla Model 3 costs $11.25 at night and $21 during the daytime. And that's for almost 500km. Try filing a car up for that! We pay nearly $2 per litre of petrol. So, a 500km journey would cost somewhere between $70 and $140 depending on the car's engine size and efficiency. that's petrol cost only - not accounting for servicing etc.
Where I live there's also no VAT for electrical vehicles (25% for dino driven ones), no import tax, no road tax, no congestion fees, and no parking fees. And they can use the bus lanes (with exceptions). Which means that a Tesla Model S will cost about the same as any (slightly expensive) family car, and is cheaper to run.
11-21-2017, 04:33 AM - 1 Like   #41989
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PF is about to hit the big 4,000,000 posts:

According to the stats we're now at 3,999,975 posts - shouldn't the big one belong to this thread?

WAKE UP!!!

11-21-2017, 04:47 AM - 1 Like   #41990
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QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
But my problem is, I can afford one car (like many people), so the same car I commute in is the one I take when I go on a longer journey. The solution needs to be satisfactory for both uses.
Comments on two of your posts, both of which hit the nail:

1) The notion of a universal, standard, drop-in, lift-out battery would absolutely solve the problem of long-distance travel with electric cars. Essentially you would exchange batteries at a "filling station," plus a fee to cover the cost of the service and the charging of the battery. Car design would have to be standardized (=when the hood/bonnet is opened the battery is right there, and some kind of power lift would be required as the batteries are and almost certainly will remain far to heavy to be muscled by hand. It would be akin to multiple kinds of hand tools operated by one design of rechargeable battery. I will note that multiple tool manufacturers all use different batteries, just as camera makers cannot agree on one battery design much less one lens-mount design (excepting the semi-successful M42 mount, but is it possible to patent a screw-thread or a registration distance?). A downside: you might be exchanging a brand new battery for one that is how old? Would you be OK with that?

2) Precisely correct in objecting to the "how often do you drive more than 400 miles" argument. Perhaps I do that only once a year, but do I need to keep an "old technology" gasoline car for that two week period? Must I rent for a trip, which means the local rental agency must offer a fleet of gasoline-powered cars? Perhaps. It would be akin to renting rather than buying an "RV" or "camper."
11-21-2017, 05:33 AM - 1 Like   #41991
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
For that I'd prefer my scratchy old Landrover!
Picture!!! Landrovers are probably my favourite cars
11-21-2017, 05:37 AM - 1 Like   #41992
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
The notion of a universal, standard, drop-in, lift-out battery would absolutely solve the problem of long-distance travel with electric cars.
With the weight of batteries I'd think the best placement is as low and near the centre as possible, so maybe have more of a lift-in, drop-out solution under the car? To get around the potential problem of replacing your shiny new battery with an older would be to rent batteries rather than buying them.

QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Must I rent for a trip, which means the local rental agency must offer a fleet of gasoline-powered cars?
For me this is the obvious solution (and it is, since we no longer own a car), but a lot of people will live a fair distance from the nearest rental office.

But I don't think the range will be a problem for long with electrical cars. Now that the industry is investing heavily in battery tech it's a matter of time before someone makes a break-through. Another thing is that there are other alternatives to petrol as a fuel. I know hydrogen has its own issues, being both explosive and corrosive etc, but it is at least clean burning. Although, as with electricity, how clean it really is depends on how you make it.

I can't really imagine city dwellers to own private cars for much longer, though. A waste of resources and space to have cars parked for 20+ hours a day. More and more cities are shutting cars out of the city centre. Real estate is getting costly, so reducing the amount of road surface makes sense in built-up areas.

Things don't look quite the same if you live 500km from your nearest neighbour

11-21-2017, 05:38 AM - 1 Like   #41993
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Picture!!! Landrovers are probably my favourite cars
Me too!

I wouldn't want to own one, though. I'm no mechanic
11-21-2017, 05:39 AM   #41994
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...and now the question is: Who was it??

4,000,003 posts
11-21-2017, 06:24 AM   #41995
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
...and now the question is: Who was it??

4,000,003 posts
Not me this time, I'm pretty sure
11-21-2017, 06:26 AM   #41996
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
I very much doubt we'll break the grid any time soon. There's huge surplus capacity at night and the take-up of electric cars is slow.
See, for instance, Will Electric Cars Break The Grid? | CleanTechnica

Here by us, greater than 81% of our electricity is from renewable sources (mainly hydro and wind). In your case, that may not apply.
Environmentalists will not allow any more hydroelectric dams to be built int the US. To me wind farms are an abomination on the land. They are ugly and very high maintenance. They only exist in the US due to massive government subsidies. And to most people they are only good when they are built in somebody else's back yard. Just like landfills. Energy plants and landfills should always be built locally. That would really drive conservation.

Surprisingly there is a nuclear power plant technology that will solve a lot of the nuclear waste disposal problem. It can use spent fuel rods. The waste products from these reactors can be held in your hands without any harm. In the USA there is enough of this type of waste to power these plants for some 200 years. And the reactors are much safer too.
11-21-2017, 06:45 AM - 3 Likes   #41997
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The solution is simple, put a small wind turbine on the roof of electric cars to generate enough power to keep the batteries topped off.
But hey, I'm no physicist.
11-21-2017, 06:45 AM - 2 Likes   #41998
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I, and some of my colleagues who were thinking about energy-environment-conservation, long since came to the conclusion that nuclear plants was the only viable long-term solution to the the growing* and long-term need for electricity. And the notion of cars taking up street space that would be better used for structures, that evoked a sci-fi vision of a city that is a single building, tens of miles long on each side, two hundred stories high, where everyone stays inside all the time except when they get their one-week quota out on the roof where they can see the nuclear power plants up there (exposed for cooling purposes).

*My HIGH HORSE: the the central problem is TOO MANY PEOPLE, but that will never be addressed because 1) it would interfere with "freedom;" and 2) more importantly, almost all economies, especially the USA, are based on "sustainable growth" = more, and more, and more.

Last edited by WPRESTO; 11-21-2017 at 07:00 AM.
11-21-2017, 06:59 AM - 1 Like   #41999
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
two hundred stories high,
Now, that's a tall story!

Sorry...
11-21-2017, 07:03 AM   #42000
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
Now, that's a tall story!

Sorry...
(don't know which of these emojis is laughing the loudest). V-A-V a 200 story building, as several engineers have told me: engineering can do anything given enough money.
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