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11-22-2017, 05:30 AM - 2 Likes   #42016
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If in fact some of the changes involving electric cars becomes reality, it may have unforeseen social/economic consequences. When Eisenhower got the federal government deeply involved in building roads, the interstate highway system, no one foresaw the massive development of suburbs, flight from the cities, gradual decline of long-distance passenger trains (watch movies from before 1950 and see how often someone departs for travel by train). and the growth of shopping malls at the expense of "downtown" and mom-and-pop retailers. I don't think that when the internet and web were developing people foresaw the massive shift to on-line shopping and the further decline of "downtown" and the economic stress placed on those once wonderful shopping malls. Automated travel by electrified public vehicles, sounds almost like urban trolley service.

11-22-2017, 06:34 AM   #42017
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
If in fact some of the changes involving electric cars becomes reality, it may have unforeseen social/economic consequences. When Eisenhower got the federal government deeply involved in building roads, the interstate highway system, no one foresaw the massive development of suburbs, flight from the cities, gradual decline of long-distance passenger trains (watch movies from before 1950 and see how often someone departs for travel by train). and the growth of shopping malls at the expense of "downtown" and mom-and-pop retailers. I don't think that when the internet and web were developing people foresaw the massive shift to on-line shopping and the further decline of "downtown" and the economic stress placed on those once wonderful shopping malls. Automated travel by electrified public vehicles, sounds almost like urban trolley service.
functioning convenient mass transit would change urban areas for the better
ultimately connecting exurbia would be great as well

something will have to give though
around the clock "flexible" scheduling has made a lot of us slaves to our personal vehicles
11-22-2017, 08:27 AM   #42018
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
Even if I lived in a city I would have to have a car. Getting out of the city as often as possible would be essential, and only doable by owning one.
I live in a city. By bus I get down town in about 15 minutes, while a 10 minute walk the other direction gets me into the woods - and once there I can continue for hours.

QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
Public transit only goes so far . . . . . .
Not so much around here. I do rent a car a few times a year when that's more convenient, but I go most places by bus, train, plane, or taxi. It does often take a bit longer, but is also a lot less expensive.

Just checked, and a new basic model VW Golf/Rabbit is about $38,000 here. Not worth it.

But I won't spend that money on a K-3, either.
11-22-2017, 09:17 AM - 2 Likes   #42019
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
but I go most places by bus, train, plane, or taxi.


11-22-2017, 10:15 AM   #42020
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Yep, every day...
11-22-2017, 11:01 AM - 1 Like   #42021
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in the states I would say you run against a cultural bias against mass transit

while we can be friendly it really seems to be based on a very firm basis of space (or maybe it's just me)
we don't isolate...normally we don't have to
physical and sensory space is a requirement (maybe a right)...especially away from the cities...a person just doesn't crowd another

we are also selfish entitled bastards who want to do what and when we want to...though I prefer to think of us as spontaneous

we had an ex-pat Londoner who stopped at our regular coffee shop
he didn't understand about space and eventually moved on

I was working in his shop and he asked why were a bunch of pricks...I said...that's why
you say...good morning
if you get a nod or a verbal response then you may speak again
if not take your cup and doughnut and sit at your own table
try that again the next morning and the morning after
they will eventually talk to you...or not

that's nuts...where i'm from...

I said...you can stop right there
you're here now
we didn't want to be you two hundred years ago and still don't
you live in a state that has more area than your entire country
less folks than you had in the city you came from

we like it like that

now as to pricks
the consensus at our table was you are a loud, pushy guy that might be worth knowing if you ever shut up
but you didn't and nobody cared when you left
'cause it was quiet again and we could enjoy the morning
11-22-2017, 01:16 PM   #42022
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
I live in a city. By bus I get down town in about 15 minutes, while a 10 minute walk the other direction gets me into the woods - and once there I can continue for hours.
Not so much around here. I do rent a car a few times a year when that's more convenient, but I go most places by bus, train, plane, or taxi. It does often take a bit longer, but is also a lot less expensive.
We live in a town with about 28,000 people. Public transport here is fine in the cities, but in the countryside a car is pretty much a must. My mom (at 83) uses the bus to get around town and for trips to Wellington there's a good train service, but without a car, and beyond those destinations, it would be a struggle.

I could use my bicycle to get to and from work, but I don't because if I had to go see a client I'd have to go home to get the car!
11-22-2017, 01:19 PM   #42023
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I was not thinking so much of a public bus, which by nature is large and follows a set route at timetabled times.


Rather I was thinking of something more like a taxi, without a driver, that can take you door to door where you want to go, when you call for it, subject availability, and leave you free of worrying about where to put it when you arrive. To go home, arrange another one.


If most people used that for person transport they would not need to go far from drop off of one customer to pick up of next at most times of day.


The time spent waiting for it to arrive for your ride could be not much more than going to a car park in town, when at destination, and might be reasonably competitive with getting a car out of a garage with manual door, when at home


I think my idea would work in US culture - unless there is a strong bias to owning the means of transit, rather than buying transit as a service.

11-22-2017, 01:22 PM   #42024
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
We live in a town with about 28,000 people. Public transport here is fine in the cities, but in the countryside a car is pretty much a must. My mom (at 83) uses the bus to get around town and for trips to Wellington there's a good train service, but without a car, and beyond those destinations, it would be a struggle.

I could use my bicycle to get to and from work, but I don't because if I had to go see a client I'd have to go home to get the car!


Until enough people cycle to see clients that it is socially acceptable to be dressed for cycling (not in lycra) and a bit sweaty in summer.


Actually the big problem I found when I did cycle a lot was rain in winter getting me soaked. Uncomfortable all day. And a bit dangerous riding in the rain.
11-22-2017, 01:52 PM - 1 Like   #42025
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When we first moved to this area we had one car, I had a much longer distance to go in the opposite direction that M traveled to her office, and there was free bus service on her route, none whatever on mine*. So when necessary, she walked to the bus stop and I took the car. But, her trip required at least triple the time, each way, compared to driving, and when the weather was wet, snowy or cold, it was really miserable to walk to the bus stop and wait unprotected for the bus to arrive (no bus shelter of any kind). And the buses were not frequent, so missing one in either direction meant arriving more than an hour late at the office or coming home. When we got a second vehicle, M never again used the bus even though it was free.

* Not quite true. I could have taken the same bus M used but ridden it much farther, then hiked to a long-distance bus station to catch another bus south, then changed to a municipal bus to get me to my destination (It might have been necessary to change buses at least once more - I never checked to see if I could pick up the municipal bus that passed my workplace directly in front of the long-distance bus depot). I estimated that the total travel time if I did not miss a connection, would be at least three hours each direction, whereas driving was about 45 minutes. Sometimes public transport is OK. Sometimes it isn't vaguely convenient or practical.
11-22-2017, 01:55 PM - 2 Likes   #42026
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QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
.....socially acceptable to be dressed for cycling (not in lycra) .....
What's wrong with lycra?
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11-22-2017, 02:02 PM - 2 Likes   #42027
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Looks as though he's ready for the opera.
11-22-2017, 02:04 PM - 1 Like   #42028
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QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
...The time spent waiting...

I think my idea would work in US culture - unless there is a strong bias to owning the means of transit, rather than buying transit as a service.
I not sure we are inclined to wait voluntarily

the thing with a car is freedom

it also allows you to own your time

I rode thirty miles a day eight to nine months a year for about seven years
I got pretty stinky after a day's work and the ride home

urban growth made the ride fairly dangerous that last year
in point of fact the last guy who ran me down did it because "goddamned bikes don't belong on the road"
words that probably should not be uttered to the sheriff helping to scrape me off the road
11-22-2017, 02:10 PM - 2 Likes   #42029
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QuoteOriginally posted by ccc_ Quote
we had an ex-pat Londoner who stopped at our regular coffee shop
he didn't understand about space and eventually moved on

I was working in his shop and he asked why were a bunch of pricks...I said...that's why
you say...good morning
if you get a nod or a verbal response then you may speak again
if not take your cup and doughnut and sit at your own table
try that again the next morning and the morning after
they will eventually talk to you...or not

that's nuts...where i'm from...

I said...you can stop right there
you're here now
we didn't want to be you two hundred years ago and still don't
you live in a state that has more area than your entire country
less folks than you had in the city you came from

we like it like that

now as to pricks
the consensus at our table was you are a loud, pushy guy that might be worth knowing if you ever shut up
but you didn't and nobody cared when you left
'cause it was quiet again and we could enjoy the morning
Those are some good observations of the nature of little cliques and clans....which is sort of what we are here...you think? Coffee shops, corner bars, convenience store delis, doughnut shops etc.they can usually be found there.

Hard to bust in with these guys....took me a long time of giving and taking insults before I could sit at the table.




Most of these guys were not that much different than the guys I know in this thread.....a lot of talk....some truth once in a while...some insults (in good spirit of course!) and a little fun whenever possible. Every one of them, a bacon lover.

In some places we fit...others we don't. Some places, like here, it is hard to tell if we fit or not....and it doesn't seem to matter in the least anyhow. I see 'em buzz in, drop a line or two and buzz out....not to be seen again for ages...if ever? Some only show up when they have been exiled to the doghouse and they need a place to hide. Others avoid rent by living here 24/7.

What would be interesting ...for me...is to be able to see how we view each other individually...and how accurate those views would be compared to the reality of the "real world"? Likely, nowhere close in most cases.....I know that meeting members in person, even for a brief period, can completely alter our prior perceptions...and even then, with only a brief dose of reality face to face....we are not really able to say we have a true rendering of who we just met...are we?

I can tell you some....like about old Jim up there in Pierre SD. He truly does enjoy his three good days of great weather each year.....but enjoys complaining about the rest of the days even more! He really is grouchy, grumpy, and gripey, and seems to enjoy that too......otherwise, he is about what you see here, a pretty damn good guy with a few(?) complaints about life.......oh yeah...he sure as hell knows his bacon too!

Strange things I think about .....we are all such interesting creatures in so many, many, different ways. I'm just old Rupert....who are you?

(I just proof read that...kinda.....mostly some rambling verbage.....that almost made some sense in a place or two.....got to make a note: Don't let that morphine dose go any higher than it already is! )

Regards!

---------- Post added 11-22-17 at 03:13 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
What's wrong with lycra?
Wow.....you figured out that answer fast!
11-22-2017, 02:22 PM - 3 Likes   #42030
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
What's wrong with lycra?
Nothing like asking a question and then answering it with a photo.
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