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11-20-2013, 03:49 PM   #661
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Yes yes, I understand all of this but I am still entitled to my opinion.

The K-3 is NOT marketed as a Ricoh Pentax (like Asahi Pentax was) but is marketed as a Ricoh AND a Pentax. That's two different scenarios.

PS: This is the real reason people do not like the RICOH decal on the back. If it said "by RICOH" it might not feel so weird.
My father had a Chevrolet full sized sedan in the sixties. The doorsill had a stamped GM logo and the words "Fisher Body". Of course from the outside all we ever saw was the Chevy Bowtie, the Chevrolet script and Impala in several places.

I'd say Ricoh and Pentax are right now equivalent in rank to General Motors and Chevrolet and K3 is equivalent to Impala.

That certainly differs from the old corporate and branding relationships - but I like it better this way than it was under Hoya.

I'm not afraid to buy new lenses or camera bodies now. I don't fear that Pentax will just disappear one day and obsolete the value in all my gear. RICOH on the LCD reminds me that Pentax and the K-mount are here to stay, so I think it is GOOD!!

And I bet that's half the reason they did it.

11-20-2013, 03:50 PM   #662
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
The K-3 is NOT marketed as a Ricoh Pentax (like Asahi Pentax was) but is marketed as a Ricoh AND a Pentax. That's two different scenarios.
I'm not sure I even know what that means.

Pentax is and always has been a brand name. Asahi Optical owned it for a long time. Now Ricoh do. I seriously don't understand why so many people have their knickers in a twist about a manufacturer putting their name on their product.
11-20-2013, 03:52 PM - 1 Like   #663
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
PS: This is the real reason people do not like the RICOH decal on the back. If it said "by RICOH" it might not feel so weird.
I think there would be just as much resistance. Having any RICOH logo where we have to see it is a constant reminder of change, and some of us are more resistant to change than others (or are not as far along in the five stages of accepting that change).

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That's too close to BOTH topics. SO go make a sandwich and think about it
I've got a sandwich waiting in the fridge. Turkey, I think. Not sure if there is cheese on it...
11-20-2013, 03:54 PM   #664
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
or are not as far along in the five stages of accepting that change


11-20-2013, 03:55 PM   #665
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
I've got a sandwich waiting in the fridge. Turkey, I think. Not sure if there is cheese on it...
Turkey seems somehow appropriate.

*edit* I wasn't referring to you THoog, but to the rather irrational angst about this 'issue'.
11-20-2013, 04:06 PM   #666
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I'm not afraid to buy new lenses or camera bodies now. I don't fear that Pentax will just disappear one day and obsolete the value in all my gear. RICOH on the LCD reminds me that Pentax and the K-mount are here to stay, so I think it is GOOD!!
This is similar to my feelings. After decades of watching Pentax decline (especially in the US market), I was getting a sick feeling that Pentax' days were numbered. Ricoh is making the right noises (like that sweet shutter! ), and for the time, money, and energy that they appear to be putting into Pentax, I'm willing to grant them a little paint on the back of the camera. The front, not so much, but even that would be less important that what was inside and its relationship to my LBA collection.

(The sandwich is just turkey, no cheese.)
11-20-2013, 04:08 PM   #667
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merts Quote
Turkey seems somehow appropriate.

*edit* I wasn't referring to you THoog, but to the rather irrational angst about this 'issue'.
It works both ways!
11-20-2013, 04:29 PM   #668
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merts Quote
I'm not sure I even know what that means.

Pentax is and always has been a brand name. Asahi Optical owned it for a long time. Now Ricoh do. I seriously don't understand why so many people have their knickers in a twist about a manufacturer putting their name on their product.
I don't have my nickers in a knot mate I own two D800E's.

The fact is there are two names on that camera Pentax and Ricoh. I don't care who makes what but I find that branding unconventional and as such it is blurring the ID somewhat. If you didn't know that Ricoh is the manufacturer you would not have a clue if the camera was a Pentax or a Ricoh.

One more thing: How can you have a Ricoh Pentax K-3? It's either a Ricoh K-3 or a Pentax K-3. What exactly determines the word "brand" in this case? Pentax is no longer a Brand per se it's just a line of Ricoh cameras.

11-20-2013, 04:31 PM   #669
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
Pentax was then purchased from Hoya by Ricoh
Though not all of Pentax...just the photography part.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
Honeywell (as Honeywell Pentax)
Don't forget Heiland-branded (Honeywell outside N. America) cameras. It is also interesting to note that the Honeywell versions had the Honeywell logo (A stylized "H") on the pentaprism housing rather than the Asahi AOCo logo.

Honeywell was only the distributor and is best known for their household thermostats and such.

So much for brand purity.


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11-20-2013, 04:35 PM   #670
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Honeywell was only the distributor and is best known for their household thermostats and such.
Good thing there were no Internet forums back then... imagine the kerfuffle.
11-20-2013, 04:52 PM   #671
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I don't have my nickers in a knot mate I own two D800E's.

The fact is there are two names on that camera Pentax and Ricoh. I don't care who makes what but I find that branding unconventional and as such it is blurring the ID somewhat. If you didn't know that Ricoh is the manufacturer you would not have a clue if the camera was a Pentax or a Ricoh.

One more thing: How can you have a Ricoh Pentax K-3? It's either a Ricoh K-3 or a Pentax K-3. What exactly determines the word "brand" in this case? Pentax is no longer a Brand per se it's just a line of Ricoh cameras.
*sigh*

From wikipedia..... Brand is the "name, term, design, symbol, or any other feature that identifies one seller's product distinct from those of other sellers." Initially, branding was adopted to differentiate one person's cattle from another's by means of a distinctive symbol burned into the animal's skin with a hot iron stamp and was subsequently used in business, marketing, and advertising. A modern example of a brand is Coca Cola which belongs to the Coca-Cola Company.


For the umpteenth time, Asahi Optical Co. branded many of their cameras as "Asahi Pentax" sometimes with Asahi only on the back, and other times with it on the front along with "Pentax". Having Ricoh and Pentax on the K3 is exactly the same type of branding that the original Pentax cameras had on them. How is this difficult to understand?
11-20-2013, 05:11 PM   #672
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Ricoh Pentax K-3? It's either a Ricoh K-3 or a Pentax K-3.
Interesting question, though there are plenty of historic examples of identical products being sold under various labels, even by the same company.

Example: I have a Singlex TLS (35mm film SLR, ca 1970) on the shelf behind me. Here is a photo.



Notice the little "Ricoh" label off to the right side. The same camera was sold (by Ricoh) with Ricoh on the pentaprism housing and Singlex TLS to the left side. Will the real Singlex please stand up? Was it "Singlex TLS by Ricoh" or "Ricoh Singlex TLS" (the label on the original box and manual)?

How about the Nikkormat (a.k.a. Nikomat). For years it was not even properly labeled as a Nikon product. Nikkormat by Nikon?

Does it make a difference?

What does this all mean?

Probably nothing since this is the thread that makes no sense.


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11-20-2013, 05:13 PM   #673
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Not to mention that Asahi Pentax's and Honneywell Pentaxes were sold at the same time. Honeywell in the US, Asahi in Canada, in some places at stores less than a mile apart.
11-20-2013, 05:15 PM   #674
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This thread is epic! This may go down in PF history as the mother of all threads.
11-20-2013, 05:16 PM   #675
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merts Quote
*sigh*

From wikipedia..... Brand is the "name, term, design, symbol, or any other feature that identifies one seller's product distinct from those of other sellers." Initially, branding was adopted to differentiate one person's cattle from another's by means of a distinctive symbol burned into the animal's skin with a hot iron stamp and was subsequently used in business, marketing, and advertising. A modern example of a brand is Coca Cola which belongs to the Coca-Cola Company.


For the umpteenth time, Asahi Optical Co. branded many of their cameras as "Asahi Pentax" sometimes with Asahi only on the back, and other times with it on the front along with "Pentax". Having Ricoh and Pentax on the K3 is exactly the same type of branding that the original Pentax cameras had on them. How is this difficult to understand?
*Sigh* yourself. You seriously don't "get it" but you think it is me that doesn't. Asahi Pentax were both placed on the pentaprism and you knew it was a Pentax camera made by Asahi Optical Co. Ricoh have placed the two names on the camera separately and, as I already stated, if you didn't actually know that Ricoh owned Pentax you could be forgiven for wondering why there were two separate names on that camera.

By your definition of "brand" if Pepsi owned Coca Cola it'd be fine to put both names on the can.
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