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01-22-2021, 11:12 AM - 1 Like   #84526
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You'd have to document some pretty heavy kills to make painting windmill blades viable, unless it could be done at the time of manufacture.
Windmill blades are painted. A grayish white color, same as the generator house and the towers.

01-22-2021, 11:28 AM - 2 Likes   #84527
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Just for the record; one of my ongoing projects at work is for improving the durability of some battery components in electric cars*, because you basically have to throw the entire thing out after 6-7 years.
My brother in law had a Honda hybrid some years ago. When the car aged to the point where the battery pack required replacement he dumped it, as the cost of a new battery pack was more than half what the car was worth.

Meanwhile, I have a 1972 Datsun 240Z with a 28 year old lead acid battery in it that sat unused for 22 years. I recently pulled the car out of storage, charged the battery overnight and it fired right up.

It will even hold a charge for a week or so.
01-22-2021, 11:35 AM   #84528
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
My brother in law had a Honda hybrid some years ago. When the car aged to the point where the battery pack required replacement he dumped it, as the cost of a new battery pack was more than half what the car was worth.

Meanwhile, I have a 1972 Datsun 240Z with a 28 year old lead acid battery in it that sat unused for 22 years. I recently pulled the car out of storage, charged the battery overnight and it fired right up.

It will even hold a charge for a week or so.
Was that a plug-in hybrid or one of the KERS ones, out of curiosity?

Nowadays the batteries are much cheaper but will still run you an average of... Around 900€/year, give or take? I think Toyota charges 6-7000€ for one that lasts on average 8 years.
01-22-2021, 12:05 PM - 2 Likes   #84529
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I saw Robins sitting on the power lines in almost all the locations I visited. Radar is a known danger to just about everyone, not just birds. I've seen U.S. Navy documents stating a concern about too much radar around San Diego, trying to manage the risk to human populations, because there was so much radar in the area. You'd have to document some pretty heavy kills to make painting windmill blades viable, unless it could be done at the time of manufacture.
A bird can sit on a high voltage wire because there is no path to ground. The bird is simply at the voltage level of the wire. As a matter of fact, I guy I used to know, worked on the big transmission lines live. They would get transferred to the line by helicopter.

01-22-2021, 12:05 PM - 1 Like   #84530
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
Working at an electric utility for 30 years was interesting in that regard. Now, everywhere I go, I look at wires, poles, towers, transformers, substations, the trucks and equipment used to build and maintain the transmission and distribution systems.

That 30 years has forever changed how I see the world.
Even my two years with a utility did that.
01-22-2021, 12:11 PM - 1 Like   #84531
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I saw Robins sitting on the power lines in almost all the locations I visited. Radar is a known danger to just about everyone, not just birds. I've seen U.S. Navy documents stating a concern about too much radar around San Diego, trying to manage the risk to human populations, because there was so much radar in the area. You'd have to document some pretty heavy kills to make painting windmill blades viable, unless it could be done at the time of manufacture.
The blades do not need to be manufactured white.
01-22-2021, 12:16 PM - 2 Likes   #84532
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QuoteOriginally posted by CharLac Quote
A bird can sit on a high voltage wire because there is no path to ground. The bird is simply at the voltage level of the wire. As a matter of fact, I guy I used to know, worked on the big transmission lines live. They would get transferred to the line by helicopter.
Back in the 70s in China they were famous for doing HV LL work with women wearing Faraday suits who would climb across the insulator strings to get to the place of work.

Women were smaller than blokes so that was why women.

01-22-2021, 05:53 PM - 4 Likes   #84533
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01-22-2021, 06:19 PM - 5 Likes   #84534
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QuoteOriginally posted by mkgd1 Quote
Did you see many birds around the wind farms? Maybe the birds in the area were already dead when you got there. In the sixties I hiked a lot on the North Yorkshire moors. I noticed that I never saw birds near the Fylingdales BMEWS radar. I later heard that microwave radiation fried then if they got too near. I also read that not painting windmills white reduces bird kill by 70%
One of the nearest wind farms to us has 134 turbines have a combined capacity of 161 megawatts and an average annual output of 620,000 megawatt hours.

With average wind speeds of 35 kilometres per hour the wind farm’s performance ranks amongst the best in the world, operating at a 46% capacity factor. The international average capacity factor for wind farms is around 30%. In short, it means these machines run much more than normal.

Each wind turbine has three 45-metre blades rotating at 14 revolutions per minute. That sounds slow, but it means that the tip of the blade is moving at 65.973m/s so, 237.5km/h. One would expect therefore that the blades would slice and dice birds left right and centre. But there are no birds on the ground under or near any of the turbines. Yet, there are plenty of birds about. Magpies, hawks, gulls of many descriptions and many smaller birds. We're not short of is birds. One thing I can absolutely guarantee is that these wind turbines have not killed a single kiwi.

Last edited by MarkJerling; 01-22-2021 at 06:40 PM. Reason: typo
01-22-2021, 06:28 PM - 3 Likes   #84535
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QuoteOriginally posted by CharLac Quote
A bird can sit on a high voltage wire because there is no path to ground. The bird is simply at the voltage level of the wire. As a matter of fact, I guy I used to know, worked on the big transmission lines live. They would get transferred to the line by helicopter.
My brother in law used to work in the planning side of that maintenance. The South African grid is distributing power at 132 kV, 400kV and 765 kV. Helicopter maintenance was common at those voltages. (132kV = 132,000volts)
01-22-2021, 06:31 PM - 2 Likes   #84536
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
Would you then be what they call "a floater"?
Hey! I see what you did there!
01-22-2021, 06:36 PM - 1 Like   #84537
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
I’ve been through dozens of wind farms, and never seen any dead birds either.

The one problem with wind energy is that there is no way to store the generated electricity. It must be consumed as generated, and when there is no demand, such as at night, the turbines need to be idled.
How they seem to do it here is they let the turbines run as much as possible, day and night and when the demand is low, they use less hydro. When the demand is really high, you'll see hydro lake levels start to drop all over the show. If they get to the point where they can see that the hydro and the wind systems are not generating enough, they run the Huntley coal/gas plant. (The Huntley turbines can run on either coal or gas)

80% of New Zealand's electricity generation is from renewable sources with hydro making around 40% and wind and geothermal making the other 40%. The plan is to phase out the coal/gas generation over the next 25 years so all our power generation comes from renewables but I think that's a bit ambitious.

Last edited by MarkJerling; 01-22-2021 at 06:48 PM.
01-22-2021, 07:36 PM - 4 Likes   #84538
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
Windmill blades are painted. A grayish white color, same as the generator house and the towers.
Here is a wind turbines blade headed to a tower assembly site in Kentucky.





Another one in Laramie, Wyoming, again, destined for a wind farm assembly site.




There is a blade inside this crate. Somewhere in Texas.




QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
The blades do not need to be manufactured white.
Actually they are simply clear resin when they come out of the mold.

Blades are of composite construction. A clamshell mold, dry fiberglass layup, foam and balsa core, more fiberglass and carbon fiber, vacuum bagged and resin infused. After the resin is cured, the blade is popped from the mold, mold flashing trimmed, then prepped and painted.

This video shows the process. Keep in mind the colossal size of these things. Over 125 feet long. I read an article about the process, and VOC (volatile organic compounds) emissions are a concern, given the large quantities of chemicals used. Manufacturers are taking measures to catch the VOC emissions during the vacuum Infusion process, thereby resulting impact on the environment.


Last edited by Racer X 69; 01-22-2021 at 07:45 PM.
01-22-2021, 07:55 PM - 2 Likes   #84539
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
My brother in law used to work in the planning side of that maintenance. The South African grid is distributing power at 132 kV, 400kV and 765 kV. Helicopter maintenance was common at those voltages. (132kV = 132,000volts)

Linemen get paid very well.

Those linemen working the high voltage wires after hopping from a helicopter make very very very good money.



QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
How they seem to do it here is they let the turbines run as much as possible, day and night and when the demand is low, they use less hydro. When the demand is really high, you'll see hydro lake levels start to drop all over the show. If they get to the point where they can see that the hydro and the wind systems are not generating enough, they run the Huntley coal/gas plant. (The Huntley turbines can run on either coal or gas)

80% of New Zealand's electricity generation is from renewable sources with hydro making around 40% and wind and geothermal making the other 40%. The plan is to phase out the coal/gas generation over the next 25 years so all our power generation comes from renewables but I think that's a bit ambitious.
No nuclear plants?
01-22-2021, 08:02 PM   #84540
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Was that a plug-in hybrid or one of the KERS ones, out of curiosity?
I don't recall, but the model is the same class as the Toyota Prius. So KERS then?
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