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06-07-2014, 06:22 AM   #8866
jac
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And not a mention of the LivE hociR. Hmmm ...

06-07-2014, 08:25 AM   #8867
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The hociR loves to confuse, that is why the K-3 has a USB3 fitting, but no cable in the box. Ditto for HDMI.

Another reason to not buy a K-3.


Steve
06-07-2014, 08:56 AM - 1 Like   #8868
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I would never plug a K3 into another device. Cross-contamination. Mutations. Zomboid PC's and iMac's oozing across your desk trying to photocopy everything in their wake. Oh, the Horror of the HociR!!!!
06-07-2014, 09:08 AM   #8869
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The hociR loves to confuse, that is why the K-3 has a USB3 fitting, but no cable in the box. Ditto for HDMI.

Another reason to not buy a K-3.


Steve
I believe the EU mow prohibits the inclusion of these cables in electronics boxes, the idea being to avoid waste. Their idea is to make attachment points universal and encourage everyone to own ONE cable per attachment point.

Eventually they want universal batteries and chargers, so look forward to not getting a battery or charger with your new camera eventually.

06-07-2014, 09:25 AM   #8870
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Eventually they want universal batteries and chargers, so look forward to not getting a battery or charger with your new camera eventually.
That may be why the livE nonaC does in-camera charging with no charger included. EU mow? Mandate-of the-week?


Steve

---------- Post added 06-07-14 at 09:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jac Quote
Cross-contamination. Mutations. Zomboid PC's
I plugged the phone's USB cable into the K-3 yesterday and both into my laptop. I guess that explains the black ooze and the sudden change of image quality for both the K-3 and the phone. The phone now also says hociR on the back. Anything the black ooze touches gets cloned. I found out the hard way. My evil twin is in the shower using up all the hot water.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-07-2014 at 09:31 AM.
06-07-2014, 02:26 PM   #8871
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I believe the EU mow prohibits the inclusion of these cables in electronics boxes, the idea being to avoid waste. Their idea is to make attachment points universal and encourage everyone to own ONE cable per attachment point.

Eventually they want universal batteries and chargers, so look forward to not getting a battery or charger with your new camera eventually.


I think there would be great environmental value in requiring ALL batteries in electronic devices to be types and sizes from a short list of standard ones. Imagine the slowing down of the rate of disposal of electronic products if we were confident that when we buy a replacement battery for the iPhone (example) it will fit in the next phone we buy (of any brand), and similarly with laptops. I think it would be great to replace the current laptop battery with a battery housing which is packed with common size batteries. Then, when the batteries get a bit old we would replace them and keep running the laptop for another year as the prime machine and then buy a new laptop and use the recently purchased set as at least a backup battery for the new laptop.


Oh, and make the shops that sell batteries be required to have a battery recycling collection bin as a condition of selling batteries - and when the truck driver brings new batteries to sell they can backload the old ones back up the supply chain till they get to a recycling workshop. (Who actually recycles batteries when the depot to collect them is on the other side of the city in some place you never go?)


And if all my batteries were of the same type it would be so much easier to go travelling - take ONE battery charger and one set of batteries which fit everything - exactly one of the features of the K100DS that I really liked because it could use NiMH AA cells, the same as my toothbrush and flash unit. That also saved me one day when Qantas did not hand my bag over to United in Sydney on a trip to USA - I have my camera but the charger was packed check-in - at least I could go to the hotel shop and buy some alkaline cells that got me by for the official event photos I was taking for the three days of wearing the same clothes waiting for the bag to arrive. And again in Toulouse when I was unable to recharge as a result of having to make a fast decision at my previous stop about posting some stuff home with the result I was unable to recharge.

Last edited by tim60; 06-07-2014 at 02:35 PM.
06-07-2014, 05:29 PM   #8872
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QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
I think there would be great environmental value in requiring ALL batteries in electronic devices to be types and sizes from a short list of standard ones.
The idea makes good common sense. Of course all electronic devices would then be types and sizes from a short list that could properly use the shape, size and electrical characteristics of the batteries on that short list.
06-07-2014, 05:30 PM   #8873
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That may be why the livE nonaC does in-camera charging with no charger included. EU mow? Mandate-of the-week?
Hah - you took my typo and made it meaningful!

06-08-2014, 11:43 AM   #8874
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The idea makes good common sense. Of course all electronic devices would then be types and sizes from a short list that could properly use the shape, size and electrical characteristics of the batteries on that short list.
The short list over old battery types, that is. Who would develop a better battery with the added risk of not getting it on the list? And why am I seeing a K3 with a Q style battery when I close my eyes?
06-08-2014, 01:48 PM   #8875
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There are already 50 to 100 common sizes of batteries and if you make a new battery which is a drop in replacement of one of them (perhaps with a new technology) you would get it registered in the list because it is the same size and voltage and can be used as a direct replacement. BTW: it is an irritation that the old AA dry cells were 1.5V and all the rechargeable versions are 1.2V. Some equipment makers still seem to make devices that do not operate properly for reasonable charge life on rechargeable cells. (I know the3 chemistry determines the voltage - but the electronics manufacturers could easily make their products run properly on the lower voltage.


Just stop the proliferation of similar but different batteries. Examples: the Pentax D90 lithium cell looks nearly the same size and shape as the battery in a Panasonic video camera I have - but different pinouts so they cannot be interchanged - therefore I need two chargers and any spare batteries are only spares for one of the devices - I cannot travel with both cameras and 3 batteries and one charger. At the office I had a Dell laptop. When the battery failed there was another different model Dell laptop in the same series (bought at the same time) but the battery packs were not interchangeable. If the battery pack was a package that held a collection of standard cells - just as a convenient carrying package - we could have changed the cells inside, or if the two battery packs were identical we could have done an easy check to determine if battery failure was actually the problem and not some other failure.
06-08-2014, 02:54 PM   #8876
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The issue with standardizing batteries, pinouts, voltages, sizes and anything else is - then the makers have to work around the standards and they have less flexibility to innovate elsewhere.

Every sedan on earth looks basically the same and I can't see the ground or the wall at my rear out of any of them because the EU mandates 8" of crush space between the hood surface and the engine (to protect a jaywalking pedestrian who might be hit by a rightfully proceeding sedan).. All sedans thus have a high, humped hood and a vertical, dog-nosed face, and to make that work aerodynamically they have a high waist and a high rear deck lid. The differentiating factors are limited to trim bits since they all also must also meet mileage and safety standards. There are only so many ways to accomplish these Mandates and the engineers are all consolidating on the most economicall ways.

All cameras will eventually look, feel and work nearly identically if all cameras must have interchangeable batteries.
06-08-2014, 05:09 PM   #8877
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But I do not see why innovation is stopped if we require that makers choose one of the 30 sizes of battery already available at my local supermarket. The batteries already come in a huge range of form factors, voltages, capacities and internal technologies - and the traditional old sizes have multiple technology versions which are drop in replacements for each other. What is particularly irritating is to have different batteries like in the two examples I mentioned in my previous post - they look the same but then multiply both the batteries I need and the support equipment, and the supply side costs imposed by maintaining multiple supply chains for multiple products which do not compete with each other increases both cost and price.


A different example of the problem was found in Iraq in 2003 - US soldiers had 23 different battery types to run all their gear and not being able to interchange could lead to not being able to use certain kit items without even the choice to shift a battery to a higher priority item.
06-08-2014, 05:20 PM   #8878
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Another reason not to buy the hociR. The diputs yrettab/pirg si oot non lamrofnoc.
Therefore, not biting on it. Might let Godzilla have a go at it.
06-08-2014, 05:47 PM   #8879
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
Might let Godzilla have a go at it.
Too small for Godzilla's mitts.


Steve
06-09-2014, 08:15 AM   #8880
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QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
I think there would be great environmental value in requiring ALL batteries in electronic devices to be types and sizes from a short list of standard ones. Imagine the slowing down of the rate of disposal of electronic products if we were confident that when we buy a replacement battery for the iPhone (example) it will fit in the next phone we buy (of any brand), and similarly with laptops. I think it would be great to replace the current laptop battery with a battery housing which is packed with common size batteries. Then, when the batteries get a bit old we would replace them and keep running the laptop for another year as the prime machine and then buy a new laptop and use the recently purchased set as at least a backup battery for the new laptop.


Oh, and make the shops that sell batteries be required to have a battery recycling collection bin as a condition of selling batteries - and when the truck driver brings new batteries to sell they can backload the old ones back up the supply chain till they get to a recycling workshop. (Who actually recycles batteries when the depot to collect them is on the other side of the city in some place you never go?)


And if all my batteries were of the same type it would be so much easier to go travelling - take ONE battery charger and one set of batteries which fit everything - exactly one of the features of the K100DS that I really liked because it could use NiMH AA cells, the same as my toothbrush and flash unit. That also saved me one day when Qantas did not hand my bag over to United in Sydney on a trip to USA - I have my camera but the charger was packed check-in - at least I could go to the hotel shop and buy some alkaline cells that got me by for the official event photos I was taking for the three days of wearing the same clothes waiting for the bag to arrive. And again in Toulouse when I was unable to recharge as a result of having to make a fast decision at my previous stop about posting some stuff home with the result I was unable to recharge.
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The idea makes good common sense. Of course all electronic devices would then be types and sizes from a short list that could properly use the shape, size and electrical characteristics of the batteries on that short list.
Careful guys.

You're starting to make sense.

{and that is why I will not buy a K-3}
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