why I won't buy a k3 (Warning: Satire Thread)

Dave L · 10-14-2013, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by pentaxmz

I couldn't care less if Ricoh wiped out the Pentax branding... Pentax is gone and we should be very thankful that Ricoh is carrying on Pentax's great legacy

I strongly disagree with you there. RICOH's continued use and development of the PENTAX brand gives me and many people confidence that it is here to stay, along with its design philosophy and (probably) the wonderful and ubiquitous K-mount.

If they abandon or throttle the PENTAX brand, that will to me be a sign that they have failed in their objectives when purchasing the PENTAX camera business and brand, and that they plan to let it all fade away. It would be the beginning of the end and time to start looking elsewhere, IMO.

However, I have no problem with the RICOH name being on PENTAX cameras as owners of the brand, even lenses, in the same way that Asahi Opt. Co., Japan was on them. They are 100% entitled to do that and it ought not to lose them a single sale. On the contrary, it should give some of the waverers the reassurance that the brand is not about to fold, any time soon, because of who its owners are and why they bought it.

Last edited by Dave L; 10-14-2013 at 12:23 PM.

**Rondec** · 10-14-2013, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

" In a stunning move in which two smaller, financially struggling but very innovative camera manufacturers will join forces, Hoya Corporation, which bought Pentax in 2008, has just sold its Pentax Imaging Systems division to Ricoh Company, Ltd. for $128 million dollars. According to a press release distributed this morning, all of Pentax's business assets and shares will be transferred to Ricoh, with the merger expected to be completed by October.

With this transaction, Ricoh overnight has become a major player in the DSLR and interchangeable-lens compact camera market. But it could also be the first of many dominoes to fall. The Nikkei business daily says “the move by Ricoh could trigger a major industry realignment.” Ricoh will take over Hoya's domestic and overseas production bases, employees and Pentax brand, according to Nikkei.

Two Struggling Brands

In May, Ricoh announced it would cut 10,000 jobs—10% of its workforce. Ricoh's digital camera business has been unprofitable but the company hopes Pentax's established sales channels in the US will reverse its fortunes. Hoya shipped 1.63 million digital cameras in 2010, down 10% from 2009. Ricoh is said to have shipped less than half a million cameras. "
RICOH BUYS PENTAX from Adorama Learning Center

The nice thing, is that with Ricoh making the investment in Pentax, I think we can look for Pentax to pass Sony for the 3 spot with regard to digital camera sales.

**monochrome** · 10-14-2013, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Joel B

Given some days reflect on this thread, I have one last thought: Be sad, be sorry, grieve for what was and is no more.(not trying to be funny here) Pentax of your youth is no more! But after that, support Pentax-Ricoh, buy their products, rejoice at the new products now coming out and spread the word!!!! This is the LAST real chance for the brand to turn away it's own demise!! If Ricoh's attempt to bring back Pentax fails, it will be chopped up and flushed! They will cut their losses as any smart corp. would. So if you love Pentax and want it to survive, please support the brand!!! I believe Pentax CAN become the solid #3 in the business and be a viable alternative to the CANIKON monoply!! The battle plan right now should be to protect the manufacturer of the great K-mount!!! And if all goes well, you just might get that FF soon!!
Joel

Ricoh is relentless in pursuit of its goals - and very smart. I'm not at all worried about Pentax.

Originally posted by Dave L

I strongly disagree with you there. RICOH's continued use and development of the PENTAX brand gives me and many people confidence that it is here to stay, along with its design philosophy and (probably) the wonderful and ubiquitous K-mount.

If they abandon or throttle the PENTAX brand, that will to me be a sign that they have failed in their objectives when purchasing the PENTAX camera business and brand, and that they plan to let it all fade away. It would be the beginning of the end and time to start looking elsewhere, IMO.

However, I have no problem with the RICOH name being on PENTAX cameras as owners of the brand, even lenses, in the same way that Asahi Opt. Co., Japan was on them. They are 100% entitled to do that and it ought not to lose them a single sale. On the contrary, it should give some of the waverers the reassurance that the brand is not about to fold, any time soon, because of who its owners are and why they bought it.

Think about it from the perspective of the corporate decision-makers who invested $128MM and will invest contnuously for the forseeable future. They're as proud of the Ricoh name as we are of the Pentax name. I would want the Ricoh name on every product my conmpany makes, even if the brand name is someting else. I'm good with that - especially since Ricoh is a good, strong name.

**TER-OR** · 10-14-2013, 12:31 PM

I can easily see Pentax being the prestige badge or just the SLR badge for Ricoh. As I've mentioned, most auto manufacturer has their prestige badges. Lexus, Acura, Lincoln, Cadillac, Infinity etc. are all made by larger companies. Some are even just higher cost versions of existing platforms...

We know who makes these brands, it's no secret, but you still sell it as the premium brand. That's why I would like to see Pentax on the front, and Ricoh on the back or Ricoh-Pentax. It's not hidden, and it shouldn't be. But there's history which should be leveraged.

Waratah · 10-15-2013, 02:31 AM

Haven't read the whole thread, but my view, I'm very glad to have a big competent company owning the Pentax brand, and its emotionally satisfying to see "Pentax" used on their flagship and 'real' camera gear.

TaoMaas · 10-15-2013, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by TER-OR

I can easily see Pentax being the prestige badge or just the SLR badge for Ricoh.

I could see that, too. Ricoh is very capable of building K-mount DSLRs on their own, if they had wanted to do so. So I think that if they didn't feel there was value in the overall Pentax brand, they wouldn't have bought the company. It doesn't bother me that it says "Ricoh" on the back of the K3. My film SLRs are about 50/50 as to which ones say "Asahi Pentax" and which are just "Pentax", so what's one more name on the body?

k5astro · 10-15-2013, 07:36 AM

By the way, Pentax WAS Asahi... Asahi changed its name to Pentax in a similar move to RIM changing its name to Blackberry. Please don't read in any other comparisons here!!! It was a long time ago too. Anyway, I guess I'm OK with Ricoh's name being on the back or bottom of the camera but they will only confuse new customers and maybe alienate old customers if they give it any prominence at all.

Dave L · 10-15-2013, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by gbeaton

By the way, Pentax WAS Asahi... Asahi changed its name to Pentax in a similar move to RIM changing its name to Blackberry. Please don't read in any other comparisons here!!! It was a long time ago too. Anyway, I guess I'm OK with Ricoh's name being on the back or bottom of the camera but they will only confuse new customers and maybe alienate old customers if they give it any prominence at all.

That's the only problem I have with the RICOH on the back - it's too prominent (unlike how Asahi did it). All you see from the back is RICOH - prominently - with no mention of PENTAX at all. However many PENTAXes they have on the front, the RICOH on the back is just too prominent and will conflict with the brand name in some people's mind. I want to see a camera brand name with a pedigree on the back - the part I will most often see - even if the manufacturer's name is added (which is fine if not too prominent).

Will the undue prominence stop me buying it? Probably not but it might stop some people from buying it, and that is not good. On reflection over the last few days, I now think it was an unnecessary last-minute decision and was a mistake. This is how it should be, IMO:

PENTAX
By RICOH Imaging, Japan

Or similar (they would have to think long and hard about placement and font sizes, given the narrow screen borders).

Cynog Ap Brychan · 10-15-2013, 08:15 AM

On the one hand, Ricoh putting its name on the back of the Pentax doesn't worry me too much. Its their brand now, after all. On the other hand, it makes me wonder how Ricoh will treat the Pentax name in the longer term. Will they keep it as an "up-market" brand, in the manner of Lexus? Most people know that Lexus is a Toyota brand, but you don't see a Toyota badge on a Lexus (I don't think). One certainly doesn't see a BMW badge on a Rolls-Royce. There is, in my view, a subtle difference between "Pentax by Ricoh" and a "Ricoh Pentax".

**monochrome** · 10-15-2013, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

On the one hand, Ricoh putting its name on the back of the Pentax doesn't worry me too much. Its their brand now, after all. On the other hand, it makes me wonder how Ricoh will treat the Pentax name in the longer term. Will they keep it as an "up-market" brand, in the manner of Lexus? Most people know that Lexus is a Toyota brand, but you don't see a Toyota badge on a Lexus (I don't think). One certainly doesn't see a BMW badge on a Rolls-Royce. There is, in my view, a subtle difference between "Pentax by Ricoh" and a "Ricoh Pentax".

I think the far more interesting question is how they will treat the Ricoh-branded cameras.

Will the compact by just the GR, with Ricoh on the back? What will they do with any other lines of Ricoh cameras they release?

**monochrome** · 10-15-2013, 08:35 AM

What ever happened to Adam's report of a conversation with Pentax Japan - and an explanation of the Ricoh badge? I thought that was promised for Saturday or Monday.

Franky2step · 10-15-2013, 09:58 AM

We must also remember that Ricoh has their own dedicated followers who may upgrade to DSLR's and will want to see Ricoh name proudly displayed. It's not all about Pentax users, and if you think it is you are sadly mistaken

Kunzite · 10-15-2013, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Ehat ever ghappened to Adam's report of a conversation with Pentax Japan - and an explanation of the Ricoh badge? I thought that was promised for Saturday or Monday.

Indeed, all we have so far is a confirmation that it's "Ricoh" under the back LCD (which by the way I don't think it's as prominent as ASAHI on the front pentaprism).
Adam, should we wait for more information on this subject? Thanks.

jeff knight · 10-15-2013, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

What ever happened to Adam's report of a conversation with Pentax Japan - and an explanation of the Ricoh badge? I thought that was promised for Saturday or Monday.

+1

What if Ricoh turns out to be consistently great at what they do? What if the K-3 turns out to be a real classic? What if Ricoh's strengths compensate for Pentax's weaknesses in a very sympatico way over the long term? Might it be possible for us to actually love the name Ricoh and be proud of it on our cameras?

The Ricoh GR is not 100% perfect but it's still a great little camera. It really is. It's got some Pentax inside it.

Andi Lo · 10-15-2013, 01:02 PM

Pages and pages of much ado about nothing.... it's a stamp, not the shutter button. get the camera and enjoy it. Who cares what your camera says as long as it takes good pictures AND has a K mount? I'll buy a "fisher price" stamped camera if it takes good pictures and is enjoyable to use.

I'm glad Canon didnt buy pentax several years ago. Who knows what this forum would say if the back of their K-mount cams says "Canon"

10-15-2013, 07:48 AM	#203
Dave L Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 306	Originally posted by gbeaton By the way, Pentax WAS Asahi... Asahi changed its name to Pentax in a similar move to RIM changing its name to Blackberry. Please don't read in any other comparisons here!!! It was a long time ago too. Anyway, I guess I'm OK with Ricoh's name being on the back or bottom of the camera but they will only confuse new customers and maybe alienate old customers if they give it any prominence at all. That's the only problem I have with the RICOH on the back - it's too prominent (unlike how Asahi did it). All you see from the back is RICOH - prominently - with no mention of PENTAX at all. However many PENTAXes they have on the front, the RICOH on the back is just too prominent and will conflict with the brand name in some people's mind. I want to see a camera brand name with a pedigree on the back - the part I will most often see - even if the manufacturer's name is added (which is fine if not too prominent). Will the undue prominence stop me buying it? Probably not but it might stop some people from buying it, and that is not good. On reflection over the last few days, I now think it was an unnecessary last-minute decision and was a mistake. This is how it should be, IMO: PENTAX By RICOH Imaging, Japan Or similar (they would have to think long and hard about placement and font sizes, given the narrow screen borders). Last edited by Dave L; 10-15-2013 at 08:09 AM.

10-15-2013, 08:35 AM	#206
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	What ever happened to Adam's report of a conversation with Pentax Japan - and an explanation of the Ricoh badge? I thought that was promised for Saturday or Monday. Last edited by monochrome; 10-15-2013 at 11:09 AM.

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10-14-2013, 12:16 PM	#196
Dave L Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 306	Originally posted by pentaxmz I couldn't care less if Ricoh wiped out the Pentax branding... Pentax is gone and we should be very thankful that Ricoh is carrying on Pentax's great legacy I strongly disagree with you there. RICOH's continued use and development of the PENTAX brand gives me and many people confidence that it is here to stay, along with its design philosophy and (probably) the wonderful and ubiquitous K-mount. If they abandon or throttle the PENTAX brand, that will to me be a sign that they have failed in their objectives when purchasing the PENTAX camera business and brand, and that they plan to let it all fade away. It would be the beginning of the end and time to start looking elsewhere, IMO. However, I have no problem with the RICOH name being on PENTAX cameras as owners of the brand, even lenses, in the same way that Asahi Opt. Co., Japan was on them. They are 100% entitled to do that and it ought not to lose them a single sale. On the contrary, it should give some of the waverers the reassurance that the brand is not about to fold, any time soon, because of who its owners are and why they bought it. Last edited by Dave L; 10-14-2013 at 12:23 PM.

10-14-2013, 12:20 PM	#197
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by jogiba " In a stunning move in which two smaller, financially struggling but very innovative camera manufacturers will join forces, Hoya Corporation, which bought Pentax in 2008, has just sold its Pentax Imaging Systems division to Ricoh Company, Ltd. for $128 million dollars. According to a press release distributed this morning, all of Pentax's business assets and shares will be transferred to Ricoh, with the merger expected to be completed by October. With this transaction, Ricoh overnight has become a major player in the DSLR and interchangeable-lens compact camera market. But it could also be the first of many dominoes to fall. The Nikkei business daily says “the move by Ricoh could trigger a major industry realignment.” Ricoh will take over Hoya's domestic and overseas production bases, employees and Pentax brand, according to Nikkei. Two Struggling Brands In May, Ricoh announced it would cut 10,000 jobs—10% of its workforce. Ricoh's digital camera business has been unprofitable but the company hopes Pentax's established sales channels in the US will reverse its fortunes. Hoya shipped 1.63 million digital cameras in 2010, down 10% from 2009. Ricoh is said to have shipped less than half a million cameras. " RICOH BUYS PENTAX from Adorama Learning Center The nice thing, is that with Ricoh making the investment in Pentax, I think we can look for Pentax to pass Sony for the 3 spot with regard to digital camera sales.

10-14-2013, 12:26 PM	#198
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Joel B Given some days reflect on this thread, I have one last thought: Be sad, be sorry, grieve for what was and is no more.(not trying to be funny here) Pentax of your youth is no more! But after that, support Pentax-Ricoh, buy their products, rejoice at the new products now coming out and spread the word!!!! This is the LAST real chance for the brand to turn away it's own demise!! If Ricoh's attempt to bring back Pentax fails, it will be chopped up and flushed! They will cut their losses as any smart corp. would. So if you love Pentax and want it to survive, please support the brand!!! I believe Pentax CAN become the solid #3 in the business and be a viable alternative to the CANIKON monoply!! The battle plan right now should be to protect the manufacturer of the great K-mount!!! And if all goes well, you just might get that FF soon!! Joel Ricoh is relentless in pursuit of its goals - and very smart. I'm not at all worried about Pentax. Originally posted by Dave L I strongly disagree with you there. RICOH's continued use and development of the PENTAX brand gives me and many people confidence that it is here to stay, along with its design philosophy and (probably) the wonderful and ubiquitous K-mount. If they abandon or throttle the PENTAX brand, that will to me be a sign that they have failed in their objectives when purchasing the PENTAX camera business and brand, and that they plan to let it all fade away. It would be the beginning of the end and time to start looking elsewhere, IMO. However, I have no problem with the RICOH name being on PENTAX cameras as owners of the brand, even lenses, in the same way that Asahi Opt. Co., Japan was on them. They are 100% entitled to do that and it ought not to lose them a single sale. On the contrary, it should give some of the waverers the reassurance that the brand is not about to fold, any time soon, because of who its owners are and why they bought it. Think about it from the perspective of the corporate decision-makers who invested $128MM and will invest contnuously for the forseeable future. They're as proud of the Ricoh name as we are of the Pentax name. I would want the Ricoh name on every product my conmpany makes, even if the brand name is someting else. I'm good with that - especially since Ricoh is a good, strong name.

10-14-2013, 12:31 PM	#199
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	I can easily see Pentax being the prestige badge or just the SLR badge for Ricoh. As I've mentioned, most auto manufacturer has their prestige badges. Lexus, Acura, Lincoln, Cadillac, Infinity etc. are all made by larger companies. Some are even just higher cost versions of existing platforms... We know who makes these brands, it's no secret, but you still sell it as the premium brand. That's why I would like to see Pentax on the front, and Ricoh on the back or Ricoh-Pentax. It's not hidden, and it shouldn't be. But there's history which should be leveraged.

10-15-2013, 02:31 AM	#200
Waratah Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 81	Haven't read the whole thread, but my view, I'm very glad to have a big competent company owning the Pentax brand, and its emotionally satisfying to see "Pentax" used on their flagship and 'real' camera gear.

10-15-2013, 03:30 AM	#201
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by TER-OR I can easily see Pentax being the prestige badge or just the SLR badge for Ricoh. I could see that, too. Ricoh is very capable of building K-mount DSLRs on their own, if they had wanted to do so. So I think that if they didn't feel there was value in the overall Pentax brand, they wouldn't have bought the company. It doesn't bother me that it says "Ricoh" on the back of the K3. My film SLRs are about 50/50 as to which ones say "Asahi Pentax" and which are just "Pentax", so what's one more name on the body?

10-15-2013, 07:36 AM	#202
k5astro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 387	By the way, Pentax WAS Asahi... Asahi changed its name to Pentax in a similar move to RIM changing its name to Blackberry. Please don't read in any other comparisons here!!! It was a long time ago too. Anyway, I guess I'm OK with Ricoh's name being on the back or bottom of the camera but they will only confuse new customers and maybe alienate old customers if they give it any prominence at all.

10-15-2013, 08:15 AM	#204
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	On the one hand, Ricoh putting its name on the back of the Pentax doesn't worry me too much. Its their brand now, after all. On the other hand, it makes me wonder how Ricoh will treat the Pentax name in the longer term. Will they keep it as an "up-market" brand, in the manner of Lexus? Most people know that Lexus is a Toyota brand, but you don't see a Toyota badge on a Lexus (I don't think). One certainly doesn't see a BMW badge on a Rolls-Royce. There is, in my view, a subtle difference between "Pentax by Ricoh" and a "Ricoh Pentax".

10-15-2013, 08:34 AM	#205
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan On the one hand, Ricoh putting its name on the back of the Pentax doesn't worry me too much. Its their brand now, after all. On the other hand, it makes me wonder how Ricoh will treat the Pentax name in the longer term. Will they keep it as an "up-market" brand, in the manner of Lexus? Most people know that Lexus is a Toyota brand, but you don't see a Toyota badge on a Lexus (I don't think). One certainly doesn't see a BMW badge on a Rolls-Royce. There is, in my view, a subtle difference between "Pentax by Ricoh" and a "Ricoh Pentax". I think the far more interesting question is how they will treat the Ricoh-branded cameras. Will the compact by just the GR, with Ricoh on the back? What will they do with any other lines of Ricoh cameras they release?

10-15-2013, 09:58 AM	#207
Franky2step Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Niagara Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 793	We must also remember that Ricoh has their own dedicated followers who may upgrade to DSLR's and will want to see Ricoh name proudly displayed. It's not all about Pentax users, and if you think it is you are sadly mistaken

10-15-2013, 10:27 AM	#208
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by monochrome Ehat ever ghappened to Adam's report of a conversation with Pentax Japan - and an explanation of the Ricoh badge? I thought that was promised for Saturday or Monday. Indeed, all we have so far is a confirmation that it's "Ricoh" under the back LCD (which by the way I don't think it's as prominent as ASAHI on the front pentaprism). Adam, should we wait for more information on this subject? Thanks.

10-15-2013, 12:08 PM	#209
jeff knight Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 261	Originally posted by monochrome What ever happened to Adam's report of a conversation with Pentax Japan - and an explanation of the Ricoh badge? I thought that was promised for Saturday or Monday. +1 What if Ricoh turns out to be consistently great at what they do? What if the K-3 turns out to be a real classic? What if Ricoh's strengths compensate for Pentax's weaknesses in a very sympatico way over the long term? Might it be possible for us to actually love the name Ricoh and be proud of it on our cameras? The Ricoh GR is not 100% perfect but it's still a great little camera. It really is. It's got some Pentax inside it.

10-15-2013, 01:02 PM	#210
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	Pages and pages of much ado about nothing.... it's a stamp, not the shutter button. get the camera and enjoy it. Who cares what your camera says as long as it takes good pictures AND has a K mount? I'll buy a "fisher price" stamped camera if it takes good pictures and is enjoyable to use. I'm glad Canon didnt buy pentax several years ago. Who knows what this forum would say if the back of their K-mount cams says "Canon"