why I won't buy a k3 (Warning: Satire Thread)

**Merts** · 11-21-2013, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by jeff knight

I am not surprised at the lack of critical thinking here, but the level of denial is downright embarrassing.

I wonder if I'm going to regret asking, but what denial exactly are you referring to?

There has been disagreement about whether Ricoh putting their name on cameras they are making is a good thing or not. I've noted some cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias and as you mentioned some failures in critical thinking. I don't think there has been a single comment in the entire thread which displayed any denial, but hey, I could be in denial........

Nesster · 11-21-2013, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

I would be. Sony's been losing a heap of money on most of their product lines, at least until recently, over the past few years. When you look at how they've been spraying camera models all over the place, it's not hard to see why, regardless of how good each of them may have been. By the time you pay for R&D on each one, too many models competing with each other can finish up costing you a lot of profit, and it's profit that drives the business, not sales. Given that the North American financing subsidiary has been carrying the company recently, you'd think the shareholders might think about forcing a sale the other way, rather than acquiring another competing business to lose even more money.

I've started to think that Sony's looking for home runs on the scale of walkman etc, and having lost much of the clues they used to have back in the day, are throwing stuff out into the market to see what sticks. Or sells.
How would we like it if Ricoh had the same corporate cluelessness? We'd have a) full frame mirrorless Pentax branded Ricoh cameras, b) Pentax branded APS mirrorless cameras, c) Oops, make that Pentax GR branded mirrorless d) lenses you attach your smart phone to, branded Ricoh Caplio e) pellicle mirror SLRs, Pentax branded f) those mirrorless APS cameras now branded Ricoh GR-X g) Pentax Spotmatic branded cell phones with 24MP sensors....

Joel B · 11-21-2013, 04:45 AM - **1 Like**

Hey wait a minute! I thought this was the cheese thread!

Velveeta or Ricoh wars! Time to choose people! Personally I'm going for the best pasteurized processed blended cheese like product made by man!! And I would eat it even if it had Ricoh on the back!! So there!!

Kunzite · 11-21-2013, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Nesster

I've started to think that Sony's looking for home runs on the scale of walkman etc, and having lost much of the clues they used to have back in the day, are throwing stuff out into the market to see what sticks. Or sells.
How would we like it if Ricoh had the same corporate cluelessness? We'd have a) full frame mirrorless Pentax branded Ricoh cameras, b) Pentax branded APS mirrorless cameras, c) Oops, make that Pentax GR branded mirrorless d) lenses you attach your smart phone to, branded Ricoh Caplio e) pellicle mirror SLRs, Pentax branded f) those mirrorless APS cameras now branded Ricoh GR-X g) Pentax Spotmatic branded cell phones with 24MP sensors....

Maybe we'd have that, in 2017 (Sony had ample time to do it - having started in 2006), after ample founding capable of making an average company go bankrupt, and losing things that are defining Pentax.
But I expect Ricoh to do better.

jcdoss · 11-21-2013, 05:48 AM

I would have bet a tidy sum that Velveeta was made by Ricoh. Are you sure it's not?

Parallax · 11-21-2013, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by Paul Hunt

even if it ends up with Tampax stamped on the back -

Hmmmm. Maybe if Tamron buys Pentax at some future date they could avoid the entire issue we're discussing.

Helen Oster · 11-21-2013, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by David&karen

I really miss my medium format cameras for IQ, but not for size and weight. In all honesty, the Pentax k5 and above make astonishing photographs, and I have seen them blown up to 20x30 inch with quality that I only saw with MF in years of old. I have my prints done at Adorama in NYC, and could not be happier.

David

Thank you! That is really good to read - and I've copied your feedback over to the team at the lab, who will be delighted!

stevebrot · 11-21-2013, 07:27 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Helen Oster

Thank you! That is really good to read - and I've copied your feedback over to the team at the lab, who will be delighted!

See! This is a legitimate thread! Even Helen Oster has posted here!

Steve

stevebrot · 11-21-2013, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by Nesster

Oops, make that Pentax GR branded mirrorless

I am wondering if that might be an intended next step since the GR line is currently under the same subsidiary part of Ricoh as the Pentax line (i.e. Pentax Imaging Co., LTD.).

Steve

stevebrot · 11-21-2013, 07:52 AM

I wondered if Lanier products say Ricoh on the back. Nope! Ditto for Savin.

We are distinctly privileged, I'd say. The way I take it is that Ricoh is paying homage to its photography roots and to its long-standing parallel relationship with Asahi (Pentax). After all, for many years Ricoh cameras were cross-compatible with Pentax for lenses and many accessories. The manual for my Singlex TLS shows the camera with a Pentax-branded flash shoe adapter, for example. When I got my XR7, I was surprised that the illustrated M42 adapter in the manual was also the Pentax product. Might we also mention the optical cross-pollination for certain Pentax and Rikenon lenses in the late 1970s?

Steve

stevebrot · 11-21-2013, 07:56 AM

And of course there are the "Ricoh Brand Benefits"!!

RICOH Brand Benefits / About Ricoh | Ricoh Global

Steve

(...wondering if they have cool hats...I was thinking something Aussie style...)

(...yes, the Kool-Aid was tasty...very tasty...)

normhead · 11-21-2013, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

And of course there are the "Ricoh Brand Benefits"!!

RICOH Brand Benefits / About Ricoh | Ricoh Global

Steve

(...wondering if they have cool hats...I was thinking something Aussie style...)

(...yes, the Kool-Aid was tasty...very tasty...)

I guess you didn't read the part where a team mate who worked for Ricoh, got my whole touch football team free hats, and they were so bad nobody wanted to wear them. There was a league rule that said if your team wore hats, they all had to be the same colour, we wore them for a season so we wouldn't hurt his Ricoh feelings, then never again.

stevebrot · 11-21-2013, 08:11 AM

RE: Ricoh hat...

Norm, did they look like this?

Ricoh Auto 66 camera (made circa 1959, built-in coupled selenium meter with semi-automated exposure, very cool for the time)

Steve

Nesster · 11-21-2013, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Might we also mention the optical cross-pollination for certain Pentax and Rikenon lenses in the late 1970s?

Actually the first K Rikenons were made by Asahi, and all but the 200 were the same as Pentax K lenses; the 200 was a Pentax M. I say this because the photo mags of the day printed this a few times. Herb Keppler wrote about this.

Question: does anyone care what it says on the front of an endoscope vs. what it says in the rear? The main thing is to know which end you can lick.

normhead · 11-21-2013, 08:15 AM

I'm not sure what an endoscope is, but that sounds yucky.

11-21-2013, 07:52 AM	#730
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I wondered if Lanier products say Ricoh on the back. Nope! Ditto for Savin. We are distinctly privileged, I'd say. The way I take it is that Ricoh is paying homage to its photography roots and to its long-standing parallel relationship with Asahi (Pentax). After all, for many years Ricoh cameras were cross-compatible with Pentax for lenses and many accessories. The manual for my Singlex TLS shows the camera with a Pentax-branded flash shoe adapter, for example. When I got my XR7, I was surprised that the illustrated M42 adapter in the manual was also the Pentax product. Might we also mention the optical cross-pollination for certain Pentax and Rikenon lenses in the late 1970s? Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 11-21-2013 at 08:02 AM.

11-21-2013, 08:11 AM	#733
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	RE: Ricoh hat... Norm, did they look like this? Ricoh Auto 66 camera (made circa 1959, built-in coupled selenium meter with semi-automated exposure, very cool for the time) Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 11-21-2013 at 08:26 AM.

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11-21-2013, 12:20 AM	#721
Merts Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 132	Originally posted by jeff knight I am not surprised at the lack of critical thinking here, but the level of denial is downright embarrassing. I wonder if I'm going to regret asking, but what denial exactly are you referring to? There has been disagreement about whether Ricoh putting their name on cameras they are making is a good thing or not. I've noted some cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias and as you mentioned some failures in critical thinking. I don't think there has been a single comment in the entire thread which displayed any denial, but hey, I could be in denial........

11-21-2013, 04:28 AM	#722
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Originally posted by RobA_Oz I would be. Sony's been losing a heap of money on most of their product lines, at least until recently, over the past few years. When you look at how they've been spraying camera models all over the place, it's not hard to see why, regardless of how good each of them may have been. By the time you pay for R&D on each one, too many models competing with each other can finish up costing you a lot of profit, and it's profit that drives the business, not sales. Given that the North American financing subsidiary has been carrying the company recently, you'd think the shareholders might think about forcing a sale the other way, rather than acquiring another competing business to lose even more money. I've started to think that Sony's looking for home runs on the scale of walkman etc, and having lost much of the clues they used to have back in the day, are throwing stuff out into the market to see what sticks. Or sells. How would we like it if Ricoh had the same corporate cluelessness? We'd have a) full frame mirrorless Pentax branded Ricoh cameras, b) Pentax branded APS mirrorless cameras, c) Oops, make that Pentax GR branded mirrorless d) lenses you attach your smart phone to, branded Ricoh Caplio e) pellicle mirror SLRs, Pentax branded f) those mirrorless APS cameras now branded Ricoh GR-X g) Pentax Spotmatic branded cell phones with 24MP sensors....

11-21-2013, 04:45 AM - 1 Like	#723
Joel B Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Barnett MO. Photos: Albums Posts: 2,336	Hey wait a minute! I thought this was the cheese thread! Velveeta or Ricoh wars! Time to choose people! Personally I'm going for the best pasteurized processed blended cheese like product made by man!! And I would eat it even if it had Ricoh on the back!! So there!!

11-21-2013, 05:32 AM	#724
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Nesster I've started to think that Sony's looking for home runs on the scale of walkman etc, and having lost much of the clues they used to have back in the day, are throwing stuff out into the market to see what sticks. Or sells. How would we like it if Ricoh had the same corporate cluelessness? We'd have a) full frame mirrorless Pentax branded Ricoh cameras, b) Pentax branded APS mirrorless cameras, c) Oops, make that Pentax GR branded mirrorless d) lenses you attach your smart phone to, branded Ricoh Caplio e) pellicle mirror SLRs, Pentax branded f) those mirrorless APS cameras now branded Ricoh GR-X g) Pentax Spotmatic branded cell phones with 24MP sensors.... Maybe we'd have that, in 2017 (Sony had ample time to do it - having started in 2006), after ample founding capable of making an average company go bankrupt, and losing things that are defining Pentax. But I expect Ricoh to do better.

11-21-2013, 05:48 AM	#725
jcdoss Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ingelheim am Rhein, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,761	I would have bet a tidy sum that Velveeta was made by Ricoh. Are you sure it's not?

11-21-2013, 05:52 AM	#726
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Paul Hunt even if it ends up with Tampax stamped on the back - Hmmmm. Maybe if Tamron buys Pentax at some future date they could avoid the entire issue we're discussing.

11-21-2013, 05:53 AM	#727
Helen Oster Adorama Camera Representative Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York Posts: 550	Originally posted by David&karen I really miss my medium format cameras for IQ, but not for size and weight. In all honesty, the Pentax k5 and above make astonishing photographs, and I have seen them blown up to 20x30 inch with quality that I only saw with MF in years of old. I have my prints done at Adorama in NYC, and could not be happier. David Thank you! That is really good to read - and I've copied your feedback over to the team at the lab, who will be delighted!

11-21-2013, 07:27 AM - 1 Like	#728
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Helen Oster Thank you! That is really good to read - and I've copied your feedback over to the team at the lab, who will be delighted! See! This is a legitimate thread! Even Helen Oster has posted here! Steve

11-21-2013, 07:33 AM	#729
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Nesster Oops, make that Pentax GR branded mirrorless I am wondering if that might be an intended next step since the GR line is currently under the same subsidiary part of Ricoh as the Pentax line (i.e. Pentax Imaging Co., LTD.). Steve

11-21-2013, 07:56 AM	#731
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	And of course there are the "Ricoh Brand Benefits"!! RICOH Brand Benefits / About Ricoh \| Ricoh Global Steve (...wondering if they have cool hats...I was thinking something Aussie style...) (...yes, the Kool-Aid was tasty...very tasty...)

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11-21-2013, 08:03 AM	#732
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by stevebrot And of course there are the "Ricoh Brand Benefits"!! RICOH Brand Benefits / About Ricoh \| Ricoh Global Steve (...wondering if they have cool hats...I was thinking something Aussie style...) (...yes, the Kool-Aid was tasty...very tasty...) I guess you didn't read the part where a team mate who worked for Ricoh, got my whole touch football team free hats, and they were so bad nobody wanted to wear them. There was a league rule that said if your team wore hats, they all had to be the same colour, we wore them for a season so we wouldn't hurt his Ricoh feelings, then never again.

11-21-2013, 08:12 AM	#734
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Originally posted by stevebrot Might we also mention the optical cross-pollination for certain Pentax and Rikenon lenses in the late 1970s? Actually the first K Rikenons were made by Asahi, and all but the 200 were the same as Pentax K lenses; the 200 was a Pentax M. I say this because the photo mags of the day printed this a few times. Herb Keppler wrote about this. Question: does anyone care what it says on the front of an endoscope vs. what it says in the rear? The main thing is to know which end you can lick.

11-21-2013, 08:15 AM	#735
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	I'm not sure what an endoscope is, but that sounds yucky.