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10-11-2013, 12:42 AM   #1
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Dynamic Range and ISO

Sorry if this has been covered in another thread, but I've spent some time digging and so far no luck...

How does the K3 stack up against the K5iis for dynamic range and high ISO?

10-11-2013, 12:46 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveM Quote
Sorry if this has been covered in another thread, but I've spent some time digging and so far no luck...

How does the K3 stack up against the K5iis for dynamic range and high ISO?
Speculation aside, it's hard to say until the image quality is carefully tested. A newer sensor has the potential to outperform an older one due to generational differences alone, which could mitigate the reduction in pixel pitch, etc.

In my opinion, the difference between the K-3 and the K-5 won't be very big, because how much more can you squeeze out of an APS-C sensor without starting to make compromises?

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10-11-2013, 03:22 AM   #3
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Compare the metrics of the Nikon D7000 with the D7100 at DxOMark.com.

I bet the K-5IIs vs the K-3 will look much the same as those two.
10-11-2013, 03:27 AM   #4
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DXO Mark give the D7100 a tiny bit better high (sports) iso score of 1256 versus 1162 for the K5. Dynamic range curves basically lie right on top of each other, except that DR for the K5 is 14.1 at iso 80. At iso 100, they both are 13.7 EVs. Honestly, if I were to guess, I would say that the cameras will perform equally, except that in low iso situations, you will see more detail with the K3. The curves aren't far enough apart to be able to see differences in real life shooting otherwise.

10-11-2013, 04:26 AM   #5
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I'm still trying to figure out (must have missed the right answer somewhere) whether the K3 has a sony sensor on board (as in A77) or whether it is the same sensor as in the D7100, toshiba. Or maybe another.

I have an A77 next to my pentax gear solely for video. It's iso performance is its only real flaw. The D7100 sensor is said to be impressive.
And aside from that, maybe other factors play as well that I don't know about?
10-11-2013, 04:28 AM   #6
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Two items that first caught my eye about the K3 was the ISO range's bottom was 100 and nothing lower, along with its lack of an extended ISO range - similar to what has been provided on past bodies. What all of this means in the end is yet to be seen. I was hoping for something lower than the K5's ISO 80, but on the other hand it really depends on the images and some testing to see what the numbers actually show (or don't show). There has been no indication as to what sensor was actually used. The K5 made a big deal out of using the Sony sensor.

I do think that the K3 is more about the down stream processing from the sensor, along with the other supporting capabilities around the sensor - than the sensor itself, other than the higher resolution that they probably felt in terms of the MP race. After the K5II/IIs, they needed a larger number for the MP or they would be hung (especially in that it was an ASP-C rather than a FF sensor).

Personally, the K5 did break a lot of ground, and even at 3 years old - is standing the test of time. I am still amazed at what it produces - in particular the dynamic range. The bottom line is not the specs or numbers, but how it handles the light and the actual image results the photographer is able to bring back.

10-11-2013, 09:09 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Compare the metrics of the Nikon D7000 with the D7100 at DxOMark.com.

I bet the K-5IIs vs the K-3 will look much the same as those two.
Interesting.....a little worse for Dynamic Range and a little better for ISO (presuming it ends up being the same)
10-11-2013, 09:26 AM   #8
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At the moment it's not entirely clear what sensor the K-3 is actually using. As a result any comments are purely speculative. If it is using a new Sony 24mp sensor then we won't know what the deal is until production models get reviewed. Even if it's using the 7100's Toshiba sensor or the older Sony sensor in the A77 we won't know quite how Pentax has worked the sensor alongside it's processing algorithims (esp. if Pentax chooses to use RAW-side noise reduction).

10-11-2013, 02:08 PM   #9
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Subjectively noice and dynamics looks very similar to my K-5IIs (on pixel level), but scientific comparaisons needs to be done to find out for real. My gut feel is the camera delivers what we are hoping for, but it looks like Adam is going to have a go with a full production model, so we will knoe very shortly. Actually it looks like many of us can have cameras soon, indication is first cameras will arrive here in Sweden in just over a week from now. But this is just an indication, it could be completely wrong of course.

Shot ISO 100, 6400 and 25000 in broad dayligt, and we know from before high ISO in good ligting always looks good.
10-11-2013, 04:16 PM   #10
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I'm more interested in A3+ sized prints than pixel peeping. I would expect that Pentax would not have selected the 24MP sensor if it did not perform better than the 16MP. It would be a mistake to take a step backwards.
10-11-2013, 04:58 PM   #11
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I'm personally hoping Ricoh is planning a firmware upgrade in the future to add/enhance features. Maybe ISO 80, maybe higher flash sync, battery life, etc. We are talking about the firmware release 1.0.
Anybody remember the original K-5 buffer size issue and the K-x battery issue that was resolve with firmware?
10-11-2013, 06:40 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I'm more interested in A3+ sized prints than pixel peeping. I would expect that Pentax would not have selected the 24MP sensor if it did not perform better than the 16MP. It would be a mistake to take a step backwards.
I think you're right. There are some aspects of the K5 sensor that I find I need to correct pp, especially the reds, but overall it's been a joy. It's amazing what you can pull out of a photo from the K5. This is their flagship, so I can't see there being a "drop" per say.

Since I'm upgrading from the original K5, there are some features that make me want to upgrade, such as the Anti-aliasing simulator, but I wouldn't want to take a step back in dynamic range and ISO.
10-11-2013, 06:51 PM   #13
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Not every sensor gives you it,s highest dynamic range at it's lowest ISO. The Foveon sensors native ISO is 200. You lose DR if you shoot at 100. ND filters are a better choice than low ISO on such sensors.
10-11-2013, 08:02 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
I'm personally hoping Ricoh is planning a firmware upgrade in the future to add/enhance features. Maybe ISO 80, maybe higher flash sync, battery life, etc. We are talking about the firmware release 1.0.
Anybody remember the original K-5 buffer size issue and the K-x battery issue that was resolve with firmware?
You can duplicate ISO 80 by under exposing and fixing it in post. That's all the K-5 is doing anyway. Base ISO on the K-5 is 100. Just set the K-3 to under expose 1/3 stop, shoot in RAW, and bring it back in Post.
10-11-2013, 08:07 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveM Quote
I think you're right. There are some aspects of the K5 sensor that I find I need to correct pp, especially the reds, but overall it's been a joy. It's amazing what you can pull out of a photo from the K5. This is their flagship, so I can't see there being a "drop" per say.

Since I'm upgrading from the original K5, there are some features that make me want to upgrade, such as the Anti-aliasing simulator, but I wouldn't want to take a step back in dynamic range and ISO.
I have the K-5 original as well. I skipped the K-5II. The improved AF is probably the most important feature for me. 24MP is perfectly fine, but not at the expense of more noise. If the 24MP sensor can just match the DR and S/N across the ISO range I will probably buy in the spring if a K-1 has not been announced. 24MP without the AA filter is just about perfect for what I want.
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