Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-12-2013, 06:25 PM - 1 Like   #1
Senior Member
jeff knight's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 254
What exactly is Professional to you?

I just read the highly annoying "Sorry Pentax is not enough thread..." (mercifully closed), and I am pissed off. So you have to use Nikon full frame (or any full frame) now to be considered a professional! I want to call BS on that.

We're getting into arguments now with the full frame crowd that are comparable to this: Your 9mm pistol isn't enough, you need a 30-06 rifle with a scope to be a proper assassin. This is so stupid. The message is: you gotta have this or that high caliber gun to play with the big boys..... It's not only silly but just not true. What about us pistoleros who like a smaller high quality weapon?

It's early days. I have not used the K-3 but the samples I've seen are more than what I would consider professional quality. I have been freelance since 1984 and the K-3 is a real temptation.

What would it take for you to consider yourself a professional? I mean, besides a load of lucrative jobs and a $50,000 camera. I'm just curious.


Last edited by jeff knight; 10-12-2013 at 06:35 PM.
10-12-2013, 06:35 PM - 1 Like   #2
Veteran Member
Mr Hyde's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 761
I think to be a 'professional' anything, you would be making a substantial part of your income doing whatever you are professional at.
10-12-2013, 06:50 PM   #3
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,497
That which follows is a typical monochrome pedantic, over-intellectualized response, but beyond just taking photographs and getting paid for them I believe the three highlighted qualifications are required.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A professional is someone who has completed formal education and training in one or more professions. The term also describes the standards of education and training that prepare members of the profession with the particular knowledge and skills necessary to perform the role of that profession. In addition, most professionals are subject to strict codes of conduct enshrining rigorous ethical and moral obligations. Professional standards of practice and ethics for a particular field are typically agreed upon and maintained through widely recognized professional associations. Some definitions of professional limit this term to those professions that serve some important aspect of public interest [1] and the general good of society.[2][3]

In some cultures, the term is used as shorthand to describe a particular social stratum of well-educated workers who enjoy considerable work autonomy and are commonly engaged in creative and intellectually challenging work.[4][5][6][7]
I am a member of a professional certification organization in my field. I have access to many, many analytical tools to help me perform my professional practice and append the Marks of Certification to my professional signature. My organization does not specify which analytical tools I must use, nor even the specifications of a class of tools. It only requires characteristics of certification which must be met so that the analytical output is trustworthy. I am occasionally asked to describe the algorithms underpinning my analytical tools to verify the soundness of their output - never more.

Were it a photographers' professional association my organization would not specify FF over APSC or Nikon over Pentax.

For instance Professional Photographers of America

Last edited by monochrome; 10-12-2013 at 06:59 PM.
10-12-2013, 06:53 PM   #4
Banned




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Millstone,NJ
Posts: 6,491
Best professional digital SLR cameras

QuoteQuote:
Professional photographers require a level of customization, performance, and ruggedness that's at least a notch above what consumer dSLRs provide. Compatibility with a broad range of accessories and studio equipment is also a must. If you have professional aspirations or are a seasoned pro going digital, these are the models you should consider. They require a serious investment, but in exchange they'll give you state-of-the-art imaging technology and the breadth of creative control you need to produce professional results.
Best professional digital SLR cameras - CNET Reviews

10-12-2013, 06:55 PM - 2 Likes   #5
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Far North Qld
Posts: 3,250
It's an attitude, not hardware.
10-12-2013, 07:06 PM   #6
Senior Member
jeff knight's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 254
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Were it a photographers' professional association my organization would not specify FF over APSC or Nikon over Pentax.
QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
It's an attitude, not hardware.
You're both right.

What I should have asked, What gear would you need to consider yourself a professional? Do you need particular gear to consider yourself a professional?

I mean, aside from deriving a living from your work there are folks trying to create a class system amongst photographers. ASPC being much lower than FF.
10-12-2013, 07:08 PM   #7
Veteran Member
Joel B's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,336
I was at a show for a professional who's been in the business seriously for over 40 years. I made the mistake of asking what he shot with, and he shot me a look and snapped " it doesn't matter don't worry about it!!" Sounds like a good philosophy to me!
Joel
10-12-2013, 07:52 PM - 3 Likes   #8
Loyal Site Supporter
eaglem's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Perth Western Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 25,698
The best tools in the world will not help the tradesman who doesn't have any skills! And yet a tradesman with great skills can use any tools and do a great job!

10-12-2013, 07:56 PM   #9
Veteran Member
Mr Hyde's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 761
a professional will use whatever he needs and feels comfortable with to accomplish his goal/task. If someone needs specific gear to make himself/herself 'feel' professional, then they probably aren't very professional.
10-12-2013, 07:59 PM   #10
hcc
Pentaxian
hcc's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,482
QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
It's an attitude, not hardware.
+1
I cannot agree more.

The same is true to many professions.
10-12-2013, 08:25 PM - 1 Like   #11
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,290
I spent a summer working with a master carpenter. He was a 'professional' in any possible sense of the word. He was a 'master' at his trade and knew more about getting things built than I ever imagined there was to know.

His tools were the most motley collection of beat up, cheap, used, over used and downright disreputable things I have ever seen. If he could not lay hands on a hammer a length of steel pipe was just fine with him. His only focus was on getting the job done to the best possible standard. And his standards were very high. We spent an entire day redoing work because we were 1/4" out over 30 feet, most any other carpenter I've ever worked with would have been delighted at a 1/4" deviation.

Amateurs worry about gear, professionals only worry about the end result.

QuoteOriginally posted by eaglem Quote
The best tools in the world will not help the tradesman who doesn't have any skills! And yet a tradesman with great skills can use any tools and do a great job!
+1
QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
It's an attitude, not hardware.
+1
10-12-2013, 08:29 PM   #12
Senior Member




Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 197
I am a mediocre photographer on the best days. I could buy a Canikon FULL FRAME camera and get paid to shoot a wedding, but I wouldn't be a professional. Unfortunately, that's what I OFTEN see at weddings. I have friends who get better shots with compact cameras. Certainly higher spec'd cameras will help a professional get better low light shots are shoot with less shutter lag or a million other things. But a real professional just effing knows their gear and doesn't let it get in the way of them doing their job. Real professionals don't blame their tools.

They also probably don't refer to them as professional tools.
10-12-2013, 08:41 PM   #13
Loyal Site Supporter
bwDraco's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,007
Professional means that you're making a significant portion of your income from what you're doing. Strictly speaking, your equipment in and of itself does not make you a professional. Professional equipment is simply designed to meet the higher requirements of a professional user, and that means a higher level of quality, performance, and reliability than consumer equipment.

For cameras, satisfying this requirement does not mean that the sensor needs to be full frame. It simply needs to meet the demands of a typical professional user. One could be shooting with a Canon EOS-1D X or even a Hasselblad and not be making any money from the photography. (Not that many H4D or H5D users aren't pros, but you get the idea.)

--DragonLord

Last edited by bwDraco; 10-12-2013 at 08:53 PM.
10-12-2013, 08:59 PM   #14
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 164
QuoteOriginally posted by jeff knight Quote
You're both right.

What I should have asked, What gear would you need to consider yourself a professional? Do you need particular gear to consider yourself a professional?

I mean, aside from deriving a living from your work there are folks trying to create a class system amongst photographers. ASPC being much lower than FF.
I think it's the person behind the gear. Take a look at the gear Galen Rowell was known to run around with, and still produce wonderful photos - a lot of times it was small, light, "consumer-level" body and lens. Pros need to use what gear is needed to meet their client expectations - unfortunately, these days some people don't seem to understand the concept that the final output is what counts, and expect the pro to have this camera or that lens.

As for the class system bunk... IMHO for amateurs and hobbyists - use what you want/ need/ can afford that works for what you enjoy shooting. And ignore the people telling you your gear choices are "wrong".
10-12-2013, 09:06 PM   #15
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,497
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I spent a summer working with a master carpenter. He was a 'professional' in any possible sense of the word. He was a 'master' at his trade and knew more about getting things built than I ever imagined there was to know.
My grandfather was a Master Printer Craftsman but he was not a professional printer.

There is a fine line between trades, which were controlled by medieval guilds and later labor unions (following an Apprentice / Craftsman / Master progression) and professions (arising out of university degrees following a Bachelor / Master / Doctor progression) and generally controlled by Professional Associations and Federal regulatory bodies. Such controlling bodies serve as barriers to entry by the untrained and uninitiated and limit supply of practioners, thus supporting wages and fees.

In the twentieth century the distinction has been blurred.as skills have become more technical and academic, union training has become more academic and a much broader portion of the population has obtained an undergraduate college degree.

The problem for the photographic industry is the ubiquity and low cost of cameras and inadequate barriers to entry by untrained practitioners. I've read many "Uncle Harry shoots a wedding" stories here. You just don't read "Uncle harry wires a house" stories. No one needs a license to be a paid photographer.

I need to pass an examination (not easy, either) a federal license, a state license in every state and ongoing, tested continuing education to do my job. That makes me by definition a professional - but says nothing about the quality of my work.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-12-2013 at 09:18 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
dslr, frame, k-3, k3, pentax k-3, quality
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What exactly is an 'Entry Level' Camera? kbace50 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 9 06-13-2013 05:51 PM
Mirror Flop! Just What Exactly Is It???? BirdDude007 Pentax K-5 6 06-09-2012 08:26 AM
Pentax SV images partly black -- what exactly is going on? noctilux Pentax Film SLR Discussion 12 12-09-2011 04:11 PM
What exactly is Hyperprogram? bwDraco Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 11 10-30-2010 04:14 AM
What exactly is trigger voltage? Workingdog Pentax DSLR Discussion 11 01-09-2010 02:20 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:43 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top