K-3 video SR - digital not mechanical?

lister6520 · 11-02-2013, 11:56 AM

I really don't understand why they went for digital SR - it makes no sense. Its not even that they don;t know how to do mechanical SR in video, they've done it successfully before so why 'uninvent' it?

To make things worse the digital SR is not properly implemented. As far as I can tell it does not take into account the rolling shutter effect when compensating movement (at least on the K-30). If at least they got that right it would fix a big part of what is wrong with Movie-SR but it would be even better if they just brought back mechanical SR.

To those saying it's no problem because you should be using a tripod please try to understand that are many situations where the camera needs to be in motion to achieve the desired result, so unless you can afford camera booms, dollies and other cinematographic rigs a good SR is what you need.

Dave L · 11-02-2013, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Ayoh

So software SR it is. Looks just as rubbish as always.

PENTAX K-3 smc DA40mmF2.8XS ???????? - YouTube

The good news is I just saved myself $1300.

Me too, very disappointing.

They may as well have said "Movie SR via Youtube software" as far as I'm concerned (and we know how rubbish that can be).

Makes it less likely that I will upgrade to K3.

panoguy · 11-02-2013, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by JohnnyXD

By the way, the only reason pentax introduced digital SR it's just to say on the specifications that the video is stabilized. What they don't say is that digital SR is worse than no shake reduction at all

I think a lot of people are wondering why Pentax (Ricoh) dropped the mechanical SR in video that previous top-end bodies had. Maybe something in the K-3, with its new SR motor, was worse than this "digital" one? I don't know, except that the SR in the "photo mode" live view (and the speedy focusing) is what I'd like to see in video... while recording. If it's all too noisy, sell a Røde video mic with the Pentax badge on it for $400 and make even more $$!

wahid_satu · 11-02-2013, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Ayoh

So software SR it is. Looks just as rubbish as always. PENTAX K-3 smc DA40mmF2.8XS ???????? - YouTube The good news is I just saved myself $1300. Report Post Like Ayoh's Post

Don't know anything about video, but it is always good to have comparisons:

OM-D Handheld

You Tube

D7100 Handheld

You Tube

So, yeah, it looks Bad. Against the Mechanically stabilized OM-D it's got nothing. Against post-stabilized D7100 it still looks worse. It is better if they just disable Movie SR altogether. I really would like to know the decision to release it as is. It is such a shame. It should've been one of the K-3's USPs, i.e: "one of the best Sensor Stabilized videography tool." Sad.

EDIT: I just realise that the comparison may not be valid. I thought because we are only evaluating SR, videos taken of different scene and by different person can be used. The comparison to the japanese K-3 40SX video may not valid because the way the K-3 was held doesn't look like what you normally do when shooting videos i.e. looks like he deliberately shook the camera. I apologize, must be a little drunk.

Last edited by wahid_satu; 11-02-2013 at 05:16 PM.

**Mutters** · 11-02-2013, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by panoguy

Did exactly this, and in photo mode, the sensor moves. In video mode, the sensor stays completely stationary. The slight hum is the SR actuators keeping the sensor in place.

It's "digital SR" for video... but I guess it works!

Oh, no, I weep into my pillow, but thanks panoguy.

Okay, what to do.

How about a petition to Ricoh/Pentax on this?

Never done this before - don't know the mechanics.

Does anyone out there have a good petitioning c.v?

If so, we need your help, desperately.

AB

Azzy · 11-02-2013, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by wahid_satu

Don't know anything about video, but it is always good to have comparisons:

OM-D Handheld
Olympus OMD- EM5 Video Test - YouTube

D7100 Handheld
Nikon D7100 and 18-200mm video test - YouTube

So, yeah, it looks Bad. Against the Mechanically stabilized OM-D it's got nothing. Against post-stabilized D7100 it still looks worse. It is better if they just disable Movie SR altogether. I really would like to know the decision to release it as is. It is such a shame. It should've been one of the K-3's USPs, i.e: "one of the best Sensor Stabilized videography tool." Sad.

This is pretty disappointing, I don't shoot video but I can see how this bother others. K-5 had such amazing video SR

You Tube

Dr_who · 11-02-2013, 04:26 PM

Came across this on YouTube of k3 video.

You Tube

**7samurai** · 11-02-2013, 04:38 PM

So depressed about the SR in video. I'm almost ready to cancel the K-3 I have on order. Really sad.

lightbulb · 11-02-2013, 04:38 PM

Kind of jello effect. Could be the operator though.

lightbulb · 11-02-2013, 04:40 PM

Well you could invest in a stabaliser rig and disable the cheapo sr software.

Dr_who · 11-02-2013, 05:13 PM

I personally think the quality of the video looks pretty good to be honest. I can certainly see how it may be disconcerting for pro videos but than again I image pros would have other equipment to help with such things to balance the camera. For the average person recording the kids or on a trip I think its pretty good.

**7samurai** · 11-02-2013, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by lightbulb

Kind of jello effect. Could be the operator though.

I'm hoping, but it leaves alot to be desired compared to the K-5.

Originally posted by lightbulb

Well you could invest in a stabaliser rig and disable the cheapo sr software.

I'll definitely have to disable SR on the K-3. It's very strange that they would offer full manual controls then go and handicap the video aspect.

Originally posted by Dr_who

I personally think the quality of the video looks pretty good to be honest. I can certainly see how it may be disconcerting for pro videos but than again I image pros would have other equipment to help with such things to balance the camera. For the average person recording the kids or on a trip I think its pretty good.

Not a pro or even an advanced amateur in video, but the digital SR is a no go. I'll do SR in post, but that has it's issues too. (Vegas Pro)

rawr · 11-02-2013, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by 7samurai

full manual controls then go and handicap the video aspect

Manual everything in video - focus, exposure, shutter, and now stabilisation. Isn't that what people wanted?

Ayoh · 11-02-2013, 07:50 PM

Because the designers are incompetent and stupid?

Originally posted by lister6520

I really don't understand why they went for digital SR - it makes no sense. Its not even that they don;t know how to do mechanical SR in video, they've done it successfully before so why 'uninvent' it?

jaad75 · 11-02-2013, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Ayoh

Because the designers are incompetent and stupid?

Do you really believe so?

11-02-2013, 01:34 PM	#32
Dave L Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 306	Originally posted by Ayoh So software SR it is. Looks just as rubbish as always. PENTAX K-3 smc DA40mmF2.8XS ???????? - YouTube The good news is I just saved myself $1300. Me too, very disappointing. They may as well have said "Movie SR via Youtube software" as far as I'm concerned (and we know how rubbish that can be). Makes it less likely that I will upgrade to K3. Last edited by Dave L; 11-02-2013 at 01:41 PM.

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11-02-2013, 11:56 AM	#31
lister6520 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 733	I really don't understand why they went for digital SR - it makes no sense. Its not even that they don;t know how to do mechanical SR in video, they've done it successfully before so why 'uninvent' it? To make things worse the digital SR is not properly implemented. As far as I can tell it does not take into account the rolling shutter effect when compensating movement (at least on the K-30). If at least they got that right it would fix a big part of what is wrong with Movie-SR but it would be even better if they just brought back mechanical SR. To those saying it's no problem because you should be using a tripod please try to understand that are many situations where the camera needs to be in motion to achieve the desired result, so unless you can afford camera booms, dollies and other cinematographic rigs a good SR is what you need.

11-02-2013, 01:44 PM	#33
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Originally posted by JohnnyXD By the way, the only reason pentax introduced digital SR it's just to say on the specifications that the video is stabilized. What they don't say is that digital SR is worse than no shake reduction at all I think a lot of people are wondering why Pentax (Ricoh) dropped the mechanical SR in video that previous top-end bodies had. Maybe something in the K-3, with its new SR motor, was worse than this "digital" one? I don't know, except that the SR in the "photo mode" live view (and the speedy focusing) is what I'd like to see in video... while recording. If it's all too noisy, sell a Røde video mic with the Pentax badge on it for $400 and make even more $$!

11-02-2013, 02:45 PM	#35
Mutters Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 262	Originally posted by panoguy Did exactly this, and in photo mode, the sensor moves. In video mode, the sensor stays completely stationary. The slight hum is the SR actuators keeping the sensor in place. It's "digital SR" for video... but I guess it works! Oh, no, I weep into my pillow, but thanks panoguy. Okay, what to do. How about a petition to Ricoh/Pentax on this? Never done this before - don't know the mechanics. Does anyone out there have a good petitioning c.v? If so, we need your help, desperately. AB

11-02-2013, 04:38 PM	#38
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474	So depressed about the SR in video. I'm almost ready to cancel the K-3 I have on order. Really sad.

11-02-2013, 04:38 PM	#39
lightbulb Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 691	Kind of jello effect. Could be the operator though.

11-02-2013, 04:40 PM	#40
lightbulb Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 691	Well you could invest in a stabaliser rig and disable the cheapo sr software.

11-02-2013, 05:13 PM	#41
Dr_who Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 777	I personally think the quality of the video looks pretty good to be honest. I can certainly see how it may be disconcerting for pro videos but than again I image pros would have other equipment to help with such things to balance the camera. For the average person recording the kids or on a trip I think its pretty good.

11-02-2013, 05:24 PM	#42
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474	Originally posted by lightbulb Kind of jello effect. Could be the operator though. I'm hoping, but it leaves alot to be desired compared to the K-5. Originally posted by lightbulb Well you could invest in a stabaliser rig and disable the cheapo sr software. I'll definitely have to disable SR on the K-3. It's very strange that they would offer full manual controls then go and handicap the video aspect. Originally posted by Dr_who I personally think the quality of the video looks pretty good to be honest. I can certainly see how it may be disconcerting for pro videos but than again I image pros would have other equipment to help with such things to balance the camera. For the average person recording the kids or on a trip I think its pretty good. Not a pro or even an advanced amateur in video, but the digital SR is a no go. I'll do SR in post, but that has it's issues too. (Vegas Pro)

11-02-2013, 05:55 PM	#43
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by 7samurai full manual controls then go and handicap the video aspect Manual everything in video - focus, exposure, shutter, and now stabilisation. Isn't that what people wanted?

11-02-2013, 07:50 PM	#44
Ayoh Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 341 Original Poster	Because the designers are incompetent and stupid? Originally posted by lister6520 I really don't understand why they went for digital SR - it makes no sense. Its not even that they don;t know how to do mechanical SR in video, they've done it successfully before so why 'uninvent' it?

11-02-2013, 07:56 PM	#45
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by Ayoh Because the designers are incompetent and stupid? Do you really believe so?