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11-02-2013, 08:02 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
Do you really believe so?
I'm hoping that is a resource and priority allocation issue to launch the K-3 and they will fix it in a future firmware.

11-02-2013, 08:31 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnnyXD Quote
Digital SR it's almost useless... Very bad news
Is mechanical SR better? Most likely, the Olympus OM-D shows us that.
Is digital SR crap? Not always. It certainly helped on the K-1.




Is no SR at all even worse? Usually.

If pros or semi-pros are evaluating the K-3, they typically won't care about digital SR or poor AF, as they're often pulling focus manually (peaking very helpful here) and have camera support figured out (tripods, monopods, sliders, cranes, steadicams, etc...). The only pro situation that would really benefit from SR is for an ENG shoulder mount run-and-gun situation, and in that case there are other factors that will likely be more important (recording time, overheating, etc...). The fact of the matter is-DSLRs are very poor choices for these kinds of situations anyway, digital SR or not.

For those that aren't pros but rather are serious amateurs looking for improved video from the K-3, skip the SR debate and look at other factors - audio monitoring, focus peaking, etc... and then get yourself a good monopod with a smooth fluid pan head. And then go in the backyard and practice your moves.


(Shot with a Super Takumar 50/1.4 mated to a Panasonic GH2, mounted on a monopod with a Manfrotto fluid pan head. In other words, 100mm EQ. No SR. Just playing in the backyard.)

Learn your editing tool, take a lot of b-roll, learn a new way of storytelling. At the end of the day, these things will be way more important than SR.
11-02-2013, 09:07 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
focus peaking
There's no focus peaking during recording. It's confirmed.
11-03-2013, 12:00 AM   #49
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Good advice.
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Is mechanical SR better? Most likely, the Olympus OM-D shows us that.
Is digital SR crap? Not always. It certainly helped on the K-1.






Is no SR at all even worse? Usually.

If pros or semi-pros are evaluating the K-3, they typically won't care about digital SR or poor AF, as they're often pulling focus manually (peaking very helpful here) and have camera support figured out (tripods, monopods, sliders, cranes, steadicams, etc...). The only pro situation that would really benefit from SR is for an ENG shoulder mount run-and-gun situation, and in that case there are other factors that will likely be more important (recording time, overheating, etc...). The fact of the matter is-DSLRs are very poor choices for these kinds of situations anyway, digital SR or not.

For those that aren't pros but rather are serious amateurs looking for improved video from the K-3, skip the SR debate and look at other factors - audio monitoring, focus peaking, etc... and then get yourself a good monopod with a smooth fluid pan head. And then go in the backyard and practice your moves.



(Shot with a Super Takumar 50/1.4 mated to a Panasonic GH2, mounted on a monopod with a Manfrotto fluid pan head. In other words, 100mm EQ. No SR. Just playing in the backyard.)

Learn your editing tool, take a lot of b-roll, learn a new way of storytelling. At the end of the day, these things will be way more important than SR.


11-03-2013, 03:44 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Is mechanical SR better? Most likely, the Olympus OM-D shows us that.
Is digital SR crap? Not always. It certainly helped on the K-1.






Is no SR at all even worse? Usually.

If pros or semi-pros are evaluating the K-3, they typically won't care about digital SR or poor AF, as they're often pulling focus manually (peaking very helpful here) and have camera support figured out (tripods, monopods, sliders, cranes, steadicams, etc...). The only pro situation that would really benefit from SR is for an ENG shoulder mount run-and-gun situation, and in that case there are other factors that will likely be more important (recording time, overheating, etc...). The fact of the matter is-DSLRs are very poor choices for these kinds of situations anyway, digital SR or not.

For those that aren't pros but rather are serious amateurs looking for improved video from the K-3, skip the SR debate and look at other factors - audio monitoring, focus peaking, etc... and then get yourself a good monopod with a smooth fluid pan head. And then go in the backyard and practice your moves.



(Shot with a Super Takumar 50/1.4 mated to a Panasonic GH2, mounted on a monopod with a Manfrotto fluid pan head. In other words, 100mm EQ. No SR. Just playing in the backyard.)

Learn your editing tool, take a lot of b-roll, learn a new way of storytelling. At the end of the day, these things will be way more important than SR.
Stop talking sense, no place for that here!
11-03-2013, 05:37 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ayoh Quote
So software SR it is. Looks just as rubbish as always.

PENTAX K-3 smc DA40mmF2.8XS ???????? - YouTube

The good news is I just saved myself $1300.
It looks rubbish on YouTube agreed. Download it and play it in PotPlayer and panning is quite steady.
11-03-2013, 06:35 AM   #52
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I shot many videos on my K30 and I couldn't use digital SR in almost any situation, only using wide angles and trying not to move the camera too much. But in most situations jello effect would appear and I had to throw it to the rubbish.

Now I use a fluid head tripod for panning, etc and I use the actual tripod to stabilize the camera. That's the only thing it works for me.
11-03-2013, 06:52 AM   #53
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I agree with johnmflores about the stabilization. If we really need a stable picture we are unlikely to rely on the camera stabilizing alone. However, it would be interesting to know why they went this particular route when Sony and others have been so successful with stabilizing video not just with in lens stabilization but also in p&s like the hx9v.

11-03-2013, 10:40 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
I agree with johnmflores about the stabilization. If we really need a stable picture we are unlikely to rely on the camera stabilizing alone. However, it would be interesting to know why they went this particular route when Sony and others have been so successful with stabilizing video not just with in lens stabilization but also in p&s like the hx9v.
"Sony and others"

The odd thing is that 'others' includes Pentax. I have a K-r and it does have mechanical stabilization in video and it works very well. Why on earth would they throw away something which worked so well on an older, bottom of the range model to replace it with something useless on their flagship model?

If they hadn't already implemented mechanical stabilisation I could understand that maybe they decided not to invest R&D to develop it but the crazy thing is that they already have it and don;t use it. I try to think of a reason why they have gone this way but I cannot find any and think it is just insane.
11-03-2013, 12:03 PM   #55
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I wonder if it's some kind of patent licensing issue...
11-03-2013, 12:17 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
How does a floating plate generate noise?
Certainly never notice any SR noise from the K-7.

Besides, all this could all be academic because the generally accepted advise is to disable SR in movie mode and use a tripod.
I believe the sr is indeed electronic. The sr mechanism does emit a sound, but I think its just to keep the sensor locked in place. It sounds different in live view mode.

Havent looked at the implications of this yet.

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11-03-2013, 04:00 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
For those that aren't pros but rather are serious amateurs looking for improved video from the K-3,
The way I see the problem:
a) digital SR is inferior
b) previous bodies already had the superior system
c) this camera also has the mechanics that should allow the superior SR (of course, there might be limitations that the engineers are aware of and we are not)
d) even if you turn off the digital SR, the camera will still crop the video. That means you are using a smaller part of the sensor, and the FoV gets reduced. Essentially, you arent taking video with APS-C sensor, but even smaller. And there is no way to disable this (digital SR could also be done in post via other, perhaps better software, right?). So you need even wider lenses, and FoV is not consistent between video and stills.

For full disclosure, I dont own a K-3, but I do have a lowly K-r (which has mechanical SR) and K-01 (which has only digital SR and crops videos)

Last edited by Na Horuk; 11-08-2013 at 12:16 PM.
11-03-2013, 04:38 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by lister6520 Quote
"Sony and others"

The odd thing is that 'others' includes Pentax. I have a K-r and it does have mechanical stabilization in video and it works very well. Why on earth would they throw away something which worked so well on an older, bottom of the range model to replace it with something useless on their flagship model?

If they hadn't already implemented mechanical stabilisation I could understand that maybe they decided not to invest R&D to develop it but the crazy thing is that they already have it and don;t use it. I try to think of a reason why they have gone this way but I cannot find any and think it is just insane.
I whole-heartedly agree.

Ricoh were the ones who said we would be getting "professional" video capabilities, for pity's sake!

All they've done is add in the manual capabilities and frame rates of the K-01 et al.

Now, the headphones jack is a good thing.

Don't know about the bit rate - does anyone?

That gaffe about Raw video was just cruel. It still torments me.

Then they've done the unthinkable with SR - shudder.

I AM a paid videographer and I use whatever means at my disposal to get footage, be it a Go-Gro (and its variants), bridge cameras, all manner of DSLRs from the K-01 (I know, I know), K-x,

K-7, K-5, 5D MkII/III, D800, MiniDV cams through to the Pro Sony Video cams, and yes, you'll even find the occasional iPhone/iPad footage in my projects.

And I am not alone among my peers - they'll use whatever means necessary to get a result.

So, expecting mechanical SR for me was a given - it's there already!

Adding insult, is the "cropped" sensor, which compromises the wide end. Believe me, when you're stuck in a cramped situation, it's the last thing one needs.

To those siting the noise of the system getting into a recording - get an external mic and get over it.


As a caveat, I am also a paid photographer, and can assure you the other photographers I mingle with don't give a toss about what brand I am using.

They're just to busy to even notice. Occasionally, very occasionally, they'll look over and wonder what I'm doing "that" with.

There's actually NO equipment snobbery amongst all the Pros I've ever work with.


So for those who say a professional will not need SR on their DSLR - I'm sorry, but we need all the facilities we can muster in the short shooting time available.

Of course we use dollies, cranes tripods etc, but the less we need to do in post, the better.

All this, because I want to stay with Pentax and its lighter weight form. I've been using it for quite some time now and still hold it in high regard, even through the lean years.

Why, why, why take away an existing, fairly unique, workable system?

Happy days

AB
11-03-2013, 07:05 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mutters Quote
I whole-heartedly agree.

Ricoh were the ones who said we would be getting "professional" video capabilities, for pity's sake!

All they've done is add in the manual capabilities and frame rates of the K-01 et al.

Now, the headphones jack is a good thing.

Don't know about the bit rate - does anyone?

That gaffe about Raw video was just cruel. It still torments me.

Then they've done the unthinkable with SR - shudder.

I AM a paid videographer and I use whatever means at my disposal to get footage, be it a Go-Gro (and its variants), bridge cameras, all manner of DSLRs from the K-01 (I know, I know), K-x,

K-7, K-5, 5D MkII/III, D800, MiniDV cams through to the Pro Sony Video cams, and yes, you'll even find the occasional iPhone/iPad footage in my projects.

And I am not alone among my peers - they'll use whatever means necessary to get a result.

So, expecting mechanical SR for me was a given - it's there already!

Adding insult, is the "cropped" sensor, which compromises the wide end. Believe me, when you're stuck in a cramped situation, it's the last thing one needs.

To those siting the noise of the system getting into a recording - get an external mic and get over it.


As a caveat, I am also a paid photographer, and can assure you the other photographers I mingle with don't give a toss about what brand I am using.

They're just to busy to even notice. Occasionally, very occasionally, they'll look over and wonder what I'm doing "that" with.

There's actually NO equipment snobbery amongst all the Pros I've ever work with.


So for those who say a professional will not need SR on their DSLR - I'm sorry, but we need all the facilities we can muster in the short shooting time available.

Of course we use dollies, cranes tripods etc, but the less we need to do in post, the better.

All this, because I want to stay with Pentax and its lighter weight form. I've been using it for quite some time now and still hold it in high regard, even through the lean years.

Why, why, why take away an existing, fairly unique, workable system?

Happy days

AB
I'm a paid videographer and photographer as well, and have used all manner of cameras to get the shot. I'm curious about the video capabilities of the K-3, but am not holding my breath as Pentax has not released any details about the codec and associated data rates. I'm not expecting them to magically leapfrog the competition negate the big headstart that Panasonic, Canon, and others have.

Would it be great to have good SR? Sure, but lacking a killer function (like full HD output via HDMI like the Nikon D7100), I'd likely continue to rely upon my GH2s (often with Pentax primes) and wait for the GH4 or other 4k cameras for my video needs. And if the K-3 has high bitrates, great color and good dynamic range but doesn't have good SR, I'll just do what I've always done and either find a way to make it work with support or use something else.

I don't have time to express disappointment and dismay at manufacturers decisions. I've got work to do.
11-03-2013, 07:59 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I don't have time to express disappointment and dismay at manufacturers decisions. I've got work to do.
As kind as I can possibly be John, you seem to have plenty of time to reply comprehensively when others express their disappointment.

Personally, I'm not looking for more, just a return to what was already there, in this "professional video" bit of kit.

However you try to negate it, there are those of us really upset at Ricoh's implementation, and we're allowed to say so.

Plus there's the possibility that it can be fixed in a firmware update, so we're probably hoping someone in charge is listening.

Peace

AB

Last edited by Mutters; 11-03-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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