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10-17-2013, 05:05 AM   #1
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K-3 video SR - digital not mechanical?

In the k5 series body image stabilisation in movie mode is realized using the mechanical SR system.

In the k-01/k30/50 etc it is realized using a badly implemented software based SR that crops the sensor by about 1.3X and is prone to severely exaggerated "jello" effects.

This change was most probably done to reduce noise from the SR system during filming, However I find this noise to be so low in practice as to be negligible, and that the mechanical system offers much more efficient stabilization.

I was hoping Pentax would continue with the mechanical SR mode in video mode in the k3 as it is simply better, however the hands-on video below you can clearly see that (at 1:53 into the video) the camera crops the live view image both vertically and horizontally when entering movie mode (more than is required simply due to change of aspect ratio).

This suggests that the same compromised software SR mode is being used in the k3. I find this really frustrating as it is a serious step back compared to the k5 stabilization solution.

I hope this can be changed in a firmware update if users are aware of the compromise and more vocal about their preference. Otherwise the k3 can be considered crippled compared to the competition - namely the olympus em-5/em-1 which offer very effective mechanical SR in video mode.


Pentax K-3: toma de contacto | Quesabesde

Furthermore looking at 5:13 into the video you can see real footage from the K3 and there is obvious exaggerated "jello" to be seen, and poor quality. This is a really stupid move by the designers if they are hoping to make the k3 a serious movie camera.

And on another point the reviewer has mentioned that new the AF system "is slower than desired". This seems to corroborate with the opinion of some other reviewers. It does not bode well for the improved AF tracking performance of the k3.


Last edited by Ayoh; 10-17-2013 at 07:11 PM.
10-17-2013, 01:54 PM   #2
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I brought this up earlier, but some seem to think that 'Movie SR' means something different for the K-3 than 'Movie SR' does for earlier Pentax cameras.
I think that's nonsense, but I'm willing to be proven wrong by evidence - though it doesn't look promising. I agree that if the K-3 offers no better video IQ than the K-01/K-30 or K-50 then it will be very disappointing indeed and to be honest, until I know for sure this is why I'm not pre-ordering.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-3/238987-pentax-k-3-video-discus...ml#post2535168

Another thing, some reviewers are saying such things as "The Pentax K-3 now uses more efficient H.264 video compression", this isn't new to the K-3 as the K-01 uses h.264 encoding and I'd bet so do the dslrs that followed.

Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 10-17-2013 at 02:04 PM.
10-17-2013, 07:04 PM   #3
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It does seem that the same poor implementation of video has been carried over to the k3. I guess the firmware has not been finalized but I am not optimistic that anything will change. It is frustrating that the designers responsible for the video implementation do not seem to be very competent.

QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
I brought this up earlier, but some seem to think that 'Movie SR' means something different for the K-3 than 'Movie SR' does for earlier Pentax cameras.
I think that's nonsense, but I'm willing to be proven wrong by evidence - though it doesn't look promising. I agree that if the K-3 offers no better video IQ than the K-01/K-30 or K-50 then it will be very disappointing indeed and to be honest, until I know for sure this is why I'm not pre-ordering.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-3/238987-pentax-k-3-video-discus...ml#post2535168

Another thing, some reviewers are saying such things as "The Pentax K-3 now uses more efficient H.264 video compression", this isn't new to the K-3 as the K-01 uses h.264 encoding and I'd bet so do the dslrs that followed.
10-18-2013, 02:08 AM - 2 Likes   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ayoh Quote
It does seem that the same poor implementation of video has been carried over to the k3. I guess the firmware has not been finalized but I am not optimistic that anything will change. It is frustrating that the designers responsible for the video implementation do not seem to be very competent.
So waiting for the camera to be available is not an option before complaining?

10-18-2013, 03:00 AM   #5
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Complaining may lead to the complaints being acknowledged and the camera firmware being improved before release.

QuoteOriginally posted by StigVidar Quote
So waiting for the camera to be available is not an option before complaining?
10-18-2013, 03:07 AM   #6
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I see no complaints, only observations, discussion and hope..
You're welcome to join in, Stig.
10-18-2013, 03:35 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by StigVidar Quote
So waiting for the camera to be available is not an option before complaining?
I think it's a useful reminder that anyone who wants shake reduction on K-3 video to be as good as or better than in the K-5 series should really hold off ordering K-3 until we know more, and until the quality of its "Movie SR" has been tested and compared with K-5 series shake reduction on video.

Last edited by Dave L; 10-18-2013 at 03:51 AM.
10-18-2013, 05:45 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
I see no complaints, only observations, discussion and hope..
You're welcome to join in, Stig.
So this is not complaining?
QuoteQuote:
It does seem that the same poor implementation of video has been carried over to the k3.It is frustrating that the designers responsible for the video implementation do not seem to be very competent.
Nobody here don't even know how this is implemented on K-3!

10-18-2013, 06:55 AM   #9
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Here is another video from the k-3.


Look at the towers shaking awkwardly, the distorted skewing artefacts look ridiculous just like in the k-01/k-30 etc. I really can't understand why they continue to use this flawed and pointless SR implementation, surely they cannot be oblivious to how bad it is. I hope they will enable mechanical SR in the k-3, and show some design ambition.

Last edited by Ayoh; 10-18-2013 at 07:02 AM.
10-18-2013, 07:45 AM   #10
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What FPS were those shot at? At 24fps, there's going to be rolling shutter. The K3 shoots 1080i at 60fps. The K1 didn't, and I don't think the K30 did. That's an obvious step toward correcting rolling shutter. We'll have to see.
10-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
What FPS were those shot at? At 24fps, there's going to be rolling shutter. The K3 shoots 1080i at 60fps. The K1 didn't, and I don't think the K30 did. That's an obvious step toward correcting rolling shutter. We'll have to see.
In the K30 rolling shutter doesn't exist in movie mode, only when SR is activated, in any mode.
10-18-2013, 01:17 PM   #12
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I would suggest putting off the complaints until there have been a few reviews using a production camera.

To go even further, I would suggest putting off complaints until the complainant actually has bought one and has a reason to complain. In other words, if the feature does not meet your needs, buy a Canon and mount your Pentax glass there and then complain about it on DPR.


Steve
10-18-2013, 01:32 PM - 1 Like   #13
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Rolling shutter is not a effect caused by SR, it's a scanning/refreshing phenomenom of all CMOS sensors..

Looking at all of OnfotoRu's K-3 videos I do see much improvement to the K-01. There's far less aliasing on diagonals and there is definitely more detail.
10-18-2013, 02:01 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I would suggest putting off the complaints until there have been a few reviews using a production camera.

To go even further, I would suggest putting off complaints until the complainant actually has bought one and has a reason to complain. In other words, if the feature does not meet your needs, buy a Canon and mount your Pentax glass there and then complain about it on DPR.


Steve
If we all though like that, companies would still be selling the same old product.
10-18-2013, 02:33 PM   #15
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It might be that digital SR is used with the internal mike and mechanical SR if using an external mike. Perhaps.
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