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10-22-2013, 07:02 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spodeworld Quote
I imagine that this would be a major stumbling block for Pentax in being a serious contender for studio usage.
Studio strobes work in full manual, so it doesn't matter. TTL is useful just for quick on-location setups, but it's just one light for the most of the time in my case.

QuoteOriginally posted by tabl10s Quote
Does this include the K-3?
The most probably yes. This is a P-TTL system limitation rather than a matter of in-body implementation. There is a chance of course that the K-3 uses slightly more advanced version of the system, or it can be changed by a firmware upgrade, but there is no signs of it so far. The only good thing is, that it looks like the pop-up flash can be used as a HSS controller and has a manual mode now.

10-22-2013, 10:25 PM - 1 Like   #17
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While the Nikon control system is good and cool, practically, for many ppl, thats all it is.

Reasons :
1. How many costly SB900's are you going to buy? - I have a friend who likes to brag about how Nikon's flash system is so good with this, but he's only willing to part his money for x1 SB900 and the other flash is a YN560

2. Most studio strobes are fully manual too, and pros have been using them to good effect and still are.

3. Plenty of strobist with excellent work out there using more humble stuff like the vivitar 285hv and YN560.

The command system is a convenience, but an expensive one.
10-23-2013, 05:53 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
While the Nikon control system is good and cool, practically, for many ppl, thats all it is.

Reasons :
1. How many costly SB900's are you going to buy? - I have a friend who likes to brag about how Nikon's flash system is so good with this, but he's only willing to part his money for x1 SB900 and the other flash is a YN560
....
The command system is a convenience, but an expensive one.
Pentax' latest 540 flash is more expensive than Nikon's SB910, and does not support changing power levels from the camera.

I do agree with you thought that MOST people won't pay $500 for any flash!
10-23-2013, 05:55 AM   #19
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@Pinholecam
1- YN-560II & YN-560III are able to sync with Nikon CLS without limits !!!!! (theses are cheap)
2- true
3- true too but when they can control 4 YN-560 with CLS, they don't hesitate at all (and that's what i would like to be able to do with my Pentax/Metz&thirdparty gear)

QuoteQuote:
The command system is a convenience, but an expensive one
?!!!? 79€ for a YN-560III is not so expensive compared to AF560's price ;-)
For HSS, YN-568 EX are about 189€ and the YN-622N triggers are able to play with HSS, TTL and CLS !
So...why Pentax is not open to third party gear (or inversely) and why does i have to buy 4 AF560 fgz to play with the sun ? (and they can't be into a softbox 'cose they can't see pre-flash and there's no triggers for Pentax HSS on the market :-/)

Tell me ? Who's happy with a pre-historical flashgun system ? How much did it cost to Pentax to add this ? lesssssssssssssss than video management i guess...

10-23-2013, 06:05 AM   #20
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Anyway, i just hope that the K3's hypothetical success will help Pentax to be into third-party-brand's plan...
10-23-2013, 06:26 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by novsky Quote
@Pinholecam
1- YN-560II & YN-560III are able to sync with Nikon CLS without limits !!!!! (theses are cheap)
2- true
3- true too but when they can control 4 YN-560 with CLS, they don't hesitate at all (and that's what i would like to be able to do with my Pentax/Metz&thirdparty gear)

?!!!? 79 for a YN-560III is not so expensive compared to AF560's price ;-)
For HSS, YN-568 EX are about 189 and the YN-622N triggers are able to play with HSS, TTL and CLS !
So...why Pentax is not open to third party gear (or inversely) and why does i have to buy 4 AF560 fgz to play with the sun ? (and they can't be into a softbox 'cose they can't see pre-flash and there's no triggers for Pentax HSS on the market :-/)

Tell me ? Who's happy with a pre-historical flashgun system ? How much did it cost to Pentax to add this ? lesssssssssssssss than video management i guess...

YN560 sync with Pentax as well.
We are talking about Nikon's ability to control light ratios and grouping here, and thats for all nikon flashes only
10-23-2013, 06:33 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by novsky Quote
there's no triggers for Pentax HSS on the market :-/)
Aokatec claim they can translate HSS for radio signals and back.
10-23-2013, 06:53 AM   #23
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Thx for the Aokatec Jaad, but, as u can see on 1rst page of this post:
QuoteOriginally posted by novsky:
Class A, i've got Cactus and i love to play in manual but manytimes i need HSS ! (don't tell me to use ND filter ;-) ) for me the only solution is to go for Aokatec triggers but they look-like "bricolage"
+ they works in optical mode, need more manipulation to fix to more than one flashgun and to be sure it works before shooting than some PW, Odin or YN triggers
And, U need to attach a flash gun to your DSLR an make it fire for control (more manipulation too), K3's integrated flash will transmit HSS but (again), does the battery will appreciate to play with it ? (+flucard+AAfilter etc... 15 mn shooting will be the new standard ^_^)

10-23-2013, 01:12 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
YN560 sync with Pentax as well.
We are talking about Nikon's ability to control light ratios and grouping here, and thats for all nikon flashes only
I'm talking about Pentax's ability to control light ratios and grouping for all Pentax flashes
10-23-2013, 01:37 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
Aokatec claim they can translate HSS for radio signals and back.
Owning 3 rx It's more than a claim they work as advertised.

Able to control two p-ttl flashes per rx.
The tx pick up the HV EMF pulses and tranfers them to the rx where they are converted to IR pulses for the flash to respond to.
10-23-2013, 01:58 PM - 1 Like   #26
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The camera does already control the remote flash power. What is missing is letting the user manually choose what power settings will be sent. I had spent some time decoding the flash protocol, both wired and wireless and there is a part of the message which very clearly indicates what power the flash must shoot. Various other things are also communicated to the flash.

The things that the camera cannot tell the flash to do (or if it can I haven't found it out) are:

Can do locally but not wireless:
- set the zoom
- AF illuminator (would be pointless in wireless anyway)
- wake up from sleep

Cannot do both local and wireless:
- whether or not to use the secondary strobe
- HSS evidently works locally but it is the flash that tells the camera to use HSS mode, not the other way

The camera can order the flash to set the power over its whole operating range but it does not have any menus that allow you to decide what that power should be. The only control it gives you is +1/-3 ev range of compensation of the exposure determined by P-TTL. You cannot choose manual power settings from the camera. If the flash is set to P-TTL you get to set the compensation amount but if you set the flash to manual then the in camera setting has no effect on the flash.

There is really no reason why you should not be able to set the flash power manually from the camera. The only limitation is that the flash has to be left in P-TTL mode (otherwise it accepts nothing but trigger from the camera). When the flash is set to P-ttl it does two things: 1 it informs the camera that you have selected this mode, and 2 it accepts power control information from the camera as well as the preflash command. Other than that it just obeys those two simple orders from the camera. It does not do any calculation - that is all done by the camera. It is therefore very easy for the camera to send any arbitrary power setting to the flash and it will obey. All that nees to be done is a new option in the flash menu to select P-TTL or manual. Then, provided that the flash is kept in P-TTL mode the camera can control whether to use P-TTL or manual and what power to use.

This could be extended further to HSS, since as with P-TTL enabling HSS on the flash just informs the camera of that and then accepts commands from the camera. In fact the camera can already bypass the HSS mode as it is. You can actually leave the flash in HSS and shoot normally (non HSS). All you need to do is bring the shutter speed down to 1/180 or lower and the flash behaves exactly the same as if you turn off HSS.

PS: I would have sworn that I shot HSS in remote with the K-r but I cannot find out how to do it again. So I either have some memory corruption (in my brain) or else that capability vanished in some firmware upgrade. Anyone knows?
10-23-2013, 02:03 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
Owning 3 rx It's more than a claim they work as advertised.
Able to control two p-ttl flashes per rx.
The tx pick up the HV EMF pulses and tranfers them to the rx where they are converted to IR pulses for the flash to respond to.
Hi Awaldram, so u've got some ? No latency in HSS ? Do u think it will be possible to link 4 Flashes (into a big softbox) with an optical cable ?

Now that we know that K3 can't control HSS with internal flash (cf manual), i will lost 1HSS flash to control the 4
10-23-2013, 04:30 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by novsky Quote
I'm talking about Pentax's ability to control light ratios and grouping for all Pentax flashes
I never said it was available on Pentax, only pointed out that its an expensive option on the Nikon.
10-23-2013, 06:09 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by novsky Quote
Now that we know that K3 can't control HSS with internal flash (cf manual)
Do we know that for sure? We know it can't use the pop-up flash in the HSS mode, but there is still a hope it can control remote HSS flashes.
10-24-2013, 03:00 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
Do we know that for sure? We know it can't use the pop-up flash in the HSS mode, but there is still a hope it can control remote HSS flashes.
Hi Jaad, into the manual its "clearly" specified...

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