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10-25-2013, 01:04 AM   #61
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I believe it is this promotional video :



10-25-2013, 01:16 AM   #62
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sorry for the double post as I can't seem to edit my response above.

QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
I just disliked an element of dishonesty, because the storyboard apparently wanted to suggest, that this is a normal professional day in the normal life of a stellar photographer shooting Pentax K normally. Which is all untrue. Well, we all know that probably already, and if so, my previous posting was superfluous then
Well, it's not all untrue but you're not entirely wrong either:

PENTAX : PENTAX Photo Gallery artist page

He shot mostly with a 645
10-25-2013, 02:16 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
He shot mostly with a 645
Yep, that's why I said 'Pentax K' or K-3, and avoided to say 'Pentax in general' (at least I hope I did?) The reasons why most pros like a 645 medium format (from Hasselblad, Pentax or whomever), is the very same reason why they would avoid a K-3, or why they would avoid any other APSC cam of any maker (unless there are plenty of really fast lenses on offer, maybe).

But even to that anti APSC "rule" there are exceptions, of course.
Pros who specialise on landscape photography don't need bokeh nor would they need fast lenses for other reasons (as they usually shoot from tripods, and their subjects move at only tectonic speeds). On the other hand they travel far and do hikes, so they would appreciate lighter gear. They may well be appealed by the K-3 for this type of work. If Pentax wanted to reach pros, they should have done a different video specifically targeted to this sub-segment, even if it is very small (only very few pros make a living from doing only landscape photography?)

But even if some pros (those doing at least a good part of their work in landscapes) would go for a K-3 as their second system to supplement their primary gear ... that would be good money for Ricoh as well.

Actually it would be very little money in terms of numbers, but this happening would be helpful for the reputation and recognition in the amateur segment.

That's what such videos are all about, probably. No pro would base his/her decisions on such directed commercial teasers anyway. They would rather look at what really counts to them, i.e. on how the output of other pros compares to theirs (e.q. the quality and characteristics of bokeh), and if better, what gear has been used by the other pro to achive that.

Commercial videos, instead, have been done for us.

Last edited by Frater; 10-25-2013 at 03:08 AM.
10-25-2013, 03:12 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
The reasons why most pros like a 645 medium format (from Hasselblad, Pentax or whomever), is the very same reason why they would avoid a K-3, or why they would avoid any other APSC cam of any maker
To say most pros prefer to work in medium format and would only work with APS-C reluctantly may not reflect the diversity of the pro market. The 'pro' market is very varied. Pro photo journalists, event photographers, or sports photographers, for example, probably have different needs and gear priorities than studio-based fashion photographers, wedding photographers, fine art photographers, real estate photographers, police photographers, gig photographers etc. If you are shooting news or sports, you probably don't want to shoot with a medium format camera, for example, and APS-C will do the job just fine.

And for some pros, including a successful professional fashion photographer well known here, sensor size may be irrelevant - what may be most important is whether the autofocus system of a camera works reliably or not.

10-25-2013, 05:32 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Someone on a "true Pentax mindset", i.e. someone who likes to think different, self-determined, and not always to follow the crowd, may have a more balanced view. I'm probably an example for that rare type (sometimes).
You are very self-effacing, aren't you?

Pentax couldn't "BUY" Richard Birnbach with all the money in the world. He shoots Canon and 645D and his client list is the USA Fortune 50.
10-25-2013, 07:32 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You are very self-effacing, aren't you?

Pentax couldn't "BUY" Richard Birnbach with all the money in the world. He shoots Canon and 645D and his client list is the USA Fortune 50.
Heh. Obviously pros ONLY shoot full frame, using only a specific brand and model, never every deviating from the latest marketplace buzz. And only an independent thinker can see that.

I was impressed with this video. It was an advertisement, with all that is implied, but this guy put his name and reputation on a camera body. His clients determine in large measure the format that he has to put out. Would he use the K-3 in a production shoot? Probably not. Especially not a pre production model. But that wasn't what this was portraying. It was a student dancer. He demonstrated some of the neat stuff that the camera could do. He could have probably used 30 diffferent camera bodies to accomplish the same thing, but somehow wasn't moved to display the incredible depth of the buffer of the D7100 or whatever.

I always love the debates here. They always, ALWAYS end up comparing the Pentax offerings to something that costs 3-5 times more. This is a $1300 body, in a year or so $1100. The frame rate alone is impressive at that price. Along with all the other neat stuff that was portrayed. For me to get some of these features matched in another brand is either impossible because they don't offer it, or I would have to spend the better part of $1000 more to get it.
10-25-2013, 07:45 AM   #67
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I'm sure Richard Birnbach shoots what he wants. He's a professional photographer being paid to advise and capture images for the client. As such, his name, time, skills and images all have value. I don't think he would have even done the K-3 video if he didn't appreciated the value in the camera.
10-25-2013, 08:11 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
I'm sure Richard Birnbach shoots what he wants. He's a professional photographer being paid to advise and capture images for the client. As such, his name, time, skills and images all have value. I don't think he would have even done the K-3 video if he didn't appreciated the value in the camera.
I think you mean Allen Birnbach.

Pentax K-3 photoshoot video goes live ? Allen Birnbach Photography - advertising, corporate and editorial photographer, Denver, Colorado Los Angeles, California

He really don't say much about the K-3 in the video or his blog.

10-25-2013, 08:25 AM   #69
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@derekkite: I hope you understand I am in your camp. Implied but not written in my response is the fact that Birnbach offers a soft endorsement of the K3. I was making an observation on the tone of the Poster's dismissal of the soft endorsement.
10-25-2013, 09:19 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@derekkite: I hope you understand I am in your camp. Implied but not written in my response is the fact that Birnbach offers a soft endorsement of the K3. I was making an observation on the tone of the Poster's dismissal of the soft endorsement.
I agree with you. Almost all counter cultural revolutionaries/anarchists are identifiable by the clothes they wear. They all look the same.

If I wanted to follow the crowd and be what all the right thinking people think, I would have a Nikon. Probably a full frame D800. With an 80-200 2.8. The ultimate in transgressive.
10-25-2013, 11:14 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
or why they would avoid any other APSC cam of any maker (unless there are plenty of really fast lenses on offer, maybe).
You don't know a lot about pros, do you? :P
10-25-2013, 11:42 AM   #72
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Probably nearly all that can be said has been said regarding the advertisement, and the photographer.

The only additional thought is this - what would you do if you were at the professional level of a Birnbach? What consideration would you make staking your reputation on a tool of your trade? You would do some due diligence, and you would have to have a lot of confidence in the brand asking you to do the ad. Clearly, Birnbach is someone who going to think things through and not risk reputation based on the limited incentive involved with the shoot. He seemed truly confident about the product.
10-25-2013, 02:24 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
honestly, any conclusions from this video performance are speculative. All we know is that a pro can follow a storyboard, and his video director's advices, so he shows the same admireable professionalism that he expects from his own models. Everything beyond that is like always, when something is purely speculative: one sees what one wants to see.

A pentax fan, or many forum members, will likely view it like you, kadajawi.

Someone on a "true Pentax mindset", i.e. someone who likes to think different, self-determined, and not always to follow the crowd, may have a more balanced view. I'm probably an example for that rare type (sometimes).

And then there is the category of DSLR market joiners and those already having another brand. I can imagine that they might think "Well, this vid shows that Pentax starts purchasing pros in their desperate or even rediculous attempt to suggest an APSC cam for a FF segment, burdened with their traditional hobbyist-only travel lens offerings, where everyone else knows that pros go for brands with fast primes or zooms." So they might smile as well after they saw the vid, but for a different reason than we do.

But never mind, the K-3 is only a snapshot in time. Pentax time may come with a different pro market impact, as soon as they launch a FF, !AND! if they re-do their lens offerings setup substantially, to accompany a FF body launch. Then they can do pro videos with a reach far beyond the Pentax fan community (provided that the Pentax FF and esp. the lenses will be good, optically and having their AF motors on a pro level reliability and durability, rather than on a toy level).

Then give the pro market another 5 to 10 years of gaining confidence in that, and the pros' future will be brighter . Over the following 50 years, the current CaNi-mix (disregarding medium format for a moment) could then be replaced gradually with a CaNiPe mix, where Pentax may hold a pro share of well above a one-digit percentage figure at the end of this period.

Or, plan B, do it like Sony, i.e. the more commercial but apparently successful thinking: Do the "mission possible", know the market where you are good in, and try to stick to that, especially carefully if makets are rather shrinking than growing.
A true Pentax mindset? wtf?

Hobbyist-only travel lens offerings? Pentax mostly offers fast primes... more so than the other brands.

What on earth do you need a FF camera for? There are enough pros these days that are switching to mFT and APS-C cameras (mostly Olympus, Fuji, some Sony and Panasonic)... and mind you they come from FF. The sensor size is of little interest. I don't give a f*** about FF, the only thing I like about those is the bigger viewfinder.

Does a wedding photographer really need FF? There was this neat video of a priest kicking the *** of a photog cause he was bursting away with a noisy Nikon. Had the photog had a mFT camera, or perhaps a Pentax, it'd have been fine. Different photographers have different needs, and actual pros pick the right tool for the job. Often times, that may not be a FF camera.
10-25-2013, 03:06 PM   #74
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Frater, a few corrections to your peculiar posts and a query -- what exactly is your point?

1) Birnbach is not following a story board. He's actually doing a real photo shoot. Someone else was responsible for directing/producing the video. For more background info, please see this:

Blog ? Allen Birnbach Photography - advertising, corporate and editorial photographer, Denver, Colorado Los Angeles, California

2) It's clear that Pentax asked him to try out the camera. Everyone on this forum knows the K-3 is not even released yet, so obviously it's not anyone's typical day in the studio with the K-3. This is what we call a strawman argument. You very much want to prove a point -- that the video is "dishonest" -- and then made up a ridiculous argument to "prove" a totally spurious point.

3) Your posts suggest that Mr. Birnbach has no motivations/inclinations/interests as an artist and simply can be bought. Hardly the case. He was clearly an interested and active collaborator in the process because he made a link between Ricoh/Pentax and the Colorado Ballet and its dancers:

"The K-3 is the new flagship for Pentax, and is billed as a high performance camera. The marketing team saw a wonderful possibility of using dance as a metaphor for performance, and approached me to shoot a series of images using the camera.

"They also wanted to support dance within the Colorado landscape, so I helped create a partnership with Colorado Ballet, a company I have worked with for seven years. Artistic Director Gil Boggs graciously provided one of my favorite dancers for the project, Dana Benton-Robertson, a soloist for the company. Shirin Lankarani, wardrobe mistress, provided costumes. Janelle Hinkey assisted with posing and Kari Kisch did an amazing job of makeup, as always."

So, you're suggesting he's put his professional reputation on the line and his relationship with an important client, because he's been "bought" by Ricoh?

4) I suppose the fact that Mr. Birnbach's photos, taken with the K-3, will be used as promotional materials for the ballet and the K-3 don't count as a professional using the APS-C K-3 for real life, real world clients? Or you're now suggesting that this is also somehow "dishonest."
10-25-2013, 03:30 PM   #75
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It's clear to me that the only issue with this well-made marketing material is that it's about Pentax. If it were any other manufacturer everything would be great.
Pentax should not be allowed marketing, the only thing that must be said about them is "they're doomed".
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