[awaldram]

I'd like to hear how K-3 does in shooting toddler as the D600 3D tracking is really awesome on this. Would be nice to be able to use my DA 40 again, but have more shots in focus when my son runs towards me

As far as experience goes (in terms of likability) K10D is still superior than D600 imho, however the D600 got tons, tons more shots in focus even with the shallower DOF (and for portraits I live at f 2-2.8).

In fairness the last Pentax that would have struggled with that was probably the k10d.

The da40 is on of the fastest focusing Pentax lens if your camera was newer than the K10d and in good light then you probably need the lens looking at.

A lot of water has gone under the bridge even in Pentax's safox world in 7 years.

[Rondec]

I just spent considerable time looking at the images on the comparometer on imaging resources. To me, it is awfully hard to pick between the D610 and K3 at low iso. At higher iso (6400 and up), there is a small, but real difference between the two (advantage D610). The K3 seems to have trouble resolving red well.

I think it has impressive performance.

Jay, your comment about APS-C images looking "crunchy" (not sure exactly what that means) and I suppose pixelated when printing large is quite dependent on camera, processing and many other factors. I have seen full frame images that are quite pixelated -- when shot with older tech (D700) and printed pretty large. I believe that the K3 will certainly increase somewhat the size of images you can print with pleasing results, as compared to older cameras, like your K20.

At the end of the day, I do believe you would have to go with a D800 in order to see significant image quality improvements over the K3.

[tuco]

Norm, you're way too sensitive and assume people are calling your brand and baby ugly. If there isn't as much difference between MFT sensors and a APS-C sensor, then by that logic there isn't much difference between MFT and FF. It's all incremental differences.

[Rondec]

Norm, you're way too sensitive and assume people are calling your brand and baby ugly. If there isn't as much difference between MFT sensors and a APS-C sensor, then by that logic there isn't much difference between MFT and FF.

You are correct -- assuming the same tech in the sensors. Olympus is using Sony sensors now, which has definitely given them a boost as compared to the Panasonic sensors they were using previously.

[Andi Lo]

In fairness the last Pentax that would have struggled with that was probably the k10d.

Sorry I deleted my post because I decided I didnt want to add to the discussion but I got quoted before I could delete

I wasn't trying to compare K10D AF with D600, I think that's really unfair. Although rereading the post I guess it did sound like that. My latest pentax was the K-x and with DA 40 the keeper rate is acceptable, but the tracking is nonexistent.

Of course K-x is a really old body as well.... so my opinion isn't so valid. Perhaps people with toddlers here and K-5 can compare it better

[Rondec]

Sorry I deleted my post because I decided I didnt want to add to the discussion but I got quoted before I could delete

I wasn't trying to compare K10D AF with D600, I think that's really unfair. Although rereading the post I guess it did sound like that. My latest pentax was the K-x and with DA 40 the keeper rate is acceptable, but the tracking is nonexistent.

Of course K-x is a really old body as well.... so my opinion isn't so valid. Perhaps people with toddlers here and K-5 can compare it better

It is very lens dependent, but shooting with a K5 II and any one of the DA limiteds or the FA limiteds, I have a nice keeper rate. SDM is not great and while I love the optics in the DA *50-135, it struggles to keep up with action.

Toddlers can be tough in general, because they are unpredictable and I don't think there is a tracking program out there that can predict what they will do next...

[DogLover]

Sorry I deleted my post because I decided I didnt want to add to the discussion but I got quoted before I could delete

I wasn't trying to compare K10D AF with D600, I think that's really unfair. Although rereading the post I guess it did sound like that. My latest pentax was the K-x and with DA 40 the keeper rate is acceptable, but the tracking is nonexistent.

Of course K-x is a really old body as well.... so my opinion isn't so valid. Perhaps people with toddlers here and K-5 can compare it better

K-5IIs is a pretty good leap up from K-5 in AF.....except when it comes to tracking. In fact, that's the only area where I am personally left wanting. Other than that, I'm yet to find an instance where the IIs has let me down. I have no doubt that Nikon still leads in this realm, but I hope that K-3's increased AF points at least gives us a fighting chance.

[normhead]

Calm down, Norm, it's just equipment.

You gave a subjective 'meh' based on a few images and a very limited use-case that doesn't involve low-light shooting in which the DR difference above base ISO can come into play, the chroma noise can be an issue, banding could appear, and luminance noise can become much more apparent. You didn't take into account the greater DOF control, the smoother tonalities that can sometimes be seen (even the best aps-c shots look 'crunchy' to me a lot of the time, more 'digital', especially when printed large,) and the requirement for aps-c lenses to be more sharp to be able to get the same acuity (physics, natch.) You're judging this all on a few images that have been 'smoothed' before the bits were even written to card, something I and a lot of others wish Pentax didn't do. And that's just the IQ, we still don't know how well a K-3 will do tracking a toddler through a dimly lit room, accurately, for example, or shooting a soccer game at dusk. Things like that can be very important to a lot of buyers.

I've said for a couple years now that for your uses - mosty, landcsape, well-lit static subjects - FF in general has less of an advantage. (FF with high MP (36+) would.) You have a hard time looking beyond your personal use case.

.

SIgh, As per usual, your understanding seems to be that I have a problem, and that my problem is I just don't see the issue as clearly as you do.(It must be tough being so superior and having to put up with us neanderthals.) In any case, my response to this is already contained in the body of the thread. I'm not going to start repeating myself here.

It has to do with whether or not the technical differences you point are actually significant enough to be detected given the limits of human perception.

[awaldram]

Sorry I deleted my post because I decided I didnt want to add to the discussion but I got quoted before I could delete

I wasn't trying to compare K10D AF with D600, I think that's really unfair. Although rereading the post I guess it did sound like that. My latest pentax was the K-x and with DA 40 the keeper rate is acceptable, but the tracking is nonexistent.

Of course K-x is a really old body as well.... so my opinion isn't so valid. Perhaps people with toddlers here and K-5 can compare it better

From the K5 onwards pentax raw performance has been slightly ahead of the competitor products (i.e 7000) but without any predictive or focus hold algorithms its a tricky beast to master.
The raw speed is a two edged sword when attempting to track a non linear subject i.e toddler one slip of that focus point and zip the AF has spun the lens to infinity.
Looking at the K3 modes in the manual it almost certainly has some kind of fuzzy logic tracking control, As the first gen since the film cameras it will be interesting to see.

Maybe it borrowed from Ricoh in which case should be pretty mature and robust.

[Andi Lo]

From the K5 onwards pentax raw performance has been slightly ahead of the competitor products (i.e 7000) but without any predictive or focus hold algorithms its a tricky beast to master.
The raw speed is a two edged sword when attempting to track a non linear subject i.e toddler one slip of that focus point and zip the AF has spun the lens to infinity.
Looking at the K3 modes in the manual it almost certainly has some kind of fuzzy logic tracking control, As the first gen since the film cameras it will be interesting to see.

Maybe it borrowed from Ricoh in which case should be pretty mature and robust.

I think the raw advantage was actually from the K-x. It was ahead of the D90 (and D300?) at the time, even when it had the same sensor. Now that I have a D90 as well to compare, I can see that K-x IQ is indeed slightly better. It has better DR, detail, high iso and imo even the color rendering is nicer.

In day to day shooting the difference may not matter, but the K-x sure was an insane deal for the money, especially compared to the much more expensive D90. Pentax sensor magicians sure are capable; like you said if they really combine forces with the Ricoh engineers, we'll have a winner camera

[Wayneheim]

Came across this article yesterday comparing the K-3 to the Nikon full frame D600. They have quite a few samples at different ISO's including a 12,800 studio setup that is quite impressive.

Nikon D600 vs. Pentax K-3 Image Comparison: Pentax Sweeps Nikon

[normhead]

like you said if they really combine forces with the Ricoh engineers, we'll have a winner camera

I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

[jsherman999]

In fairness the last Pentax that would have struggled with that was probably the k10d.

Didn't stop with the K10D, the K20D, K-r struggled mightily in comparison. By most accounts the K-5 IIs is a big step in the right direction, but I don't have personal experience with it.


.

[jsherman999]

At the end of the day, I do believe you would have to go with a D800 in order to see significant image quality improvements over the K3.

Or wait about a year for the Pentax FF body, which, if we believe Asahi-man, is really actually coming this time. My frustrations with Pentax being so late to the game (to the point where they are almost missing the team bus) is tempered by my excitement for that camera.

Or, you could buy a K-3, be happy (not hard to do probably, it will be excellent) and then buy Pentax's 2nd-gen FF body in 2016 or so.

.

[normhead]

Or as pointed out in another thread... a Sony A7r will allow you to use your Pentax glass, with an adapter in manual mode.