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normhead · 10-30-2013, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by jsherman999

FYI, may be of interest: Top thread on dpreview right now, contains some interesting info further in: Imaging Resource K-3 Test Images

Those guys are scary.

**Eric Auer** · 10-30-2013, 08:27 PM

Blue Collar 12800

**Eric Auer** · 10-30-2013, 09:00 PM

Oh why the hell not, 25600.....

civiletti · 10-30-2013, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Am I the only person who doesn't give a fig at what pictures (from any camera) look like at 12,800 ISO? I've never used it, and never will. I know that it's important to some, but am I really in a minority of one?

95% of my photos are at either iso 80 or iso 1600. I have used very high iso's only rarely.

**Eric Auer** · 10-30-2013, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by civiletti

95% of my photos are at either iso 80 or iso 1600. I have used very high iso's only rarely.

Too bad

Cynog Ap Brychan · 10-31-2013, 04:52 AM

Interesting view on sensor size and the relative merits by Thom Hogan today (I was not sure in which thread his would rightly belong):

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-full-frame-debate.html

fwbigd · 10-31-2013, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by Adam

You can always get one camera to get a photo that looks better than from the other, and vice versa. It just depends on the shooting conditions, lens, and settings. I'm sure that most users won't be able to tell the two cameras apart, but now that the d600 is just $250 more than the k-3, are people going to be able to resist the ff urge?

As an owner of both the Nikon D600 and the Pentax K-5IIs, IMHO there is no advantage to a FF camera over an APS-C sensor unless your shooting at ISO above 1200. Since I shot mostly studio at ISO 200, I prefer the image quality of the K-5IIs with the 50-135 F2.8 over the D600 with with the Nikon 24-120 F4 or 70-200 F4. I will let you know what I think when I receive my K-3 Premium Silver Edition.

cfraz · 10-31-2013, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Interesting view on sensor size and the relative merits by Thom Hogan today (I was not sure in which thread his would rightly belong):

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-full-frame-debate.html

I stopped reading at

Quote:

While full frame sensors have come down in price, every time they do, a crop sensor should come down in price by as much as a factor of eight.

PBandJ · 10-31-2013, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Interesting view on sensor size and the relative merits by Thom Hogan today (I was not sure in which thread his would rightly belong):

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-full-frame-debate.html

Nice --he mentions the forgotten K-01 as one in the better quality ("B") group!

mamethot · 10-31-2013, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by PBandJ

Nice --he mentions the forgotten K-01 as one in the better quality ("B") group!

With the proper lenses it's not a bad camera...but I found it difficult to get consistent results in terms of focus...

normhead · 10-31-2013, 06:22 AM

From Thom Hogan's article...

Quote:

But wait a minute, you're saying, doesn't FX have a one-stop advantage over DX? Maybe, but can you actually see a one stop advantage? That's a question you should really ask. For example, DxOmark ranks the D610 and D7100 this way:

D610: 25.1 bits color depth, 14.4 EV dynamic range, 2925 ISO
D7100: 24.2 bits color depth, 13.7 EV dynamic range, 1256 ISO

I'd argue that 99% of you reading this can't see the differences in color depth, 95%+ can't see the differences in dynamic range, and the only way most of you will see the difference in ISO handling is if we push to an extreme (I'm guess we'd have to get out to ISO 6400 before most of you would clearly see a difference after my post processing).

Interesting, between the other thread and this one, that would be pretty much the informed conclusion...6400 ISO would seem to be the point at which you can actually see a differeence between a K-3 and a D600. The other corollary, is if 100% of the your shooting is done 3200 or below, there is no discernible difference.

Quote:

Why the heck are the camera makers trying to get you to buy more expensive cameras? As I noted earlier, it's because unit sales are going down. To keep their overall sales and profit numbers up, they need to get you to buy upscale from where you were.

Ouch...

Mr. Hogan and myself would get along just fine...

PBandJ · 10-31-2013, 06:35 AM

Which leads to the next question: if the price between the D600 and K3 is virtually the same, which it was on some recent (Oct 22) sales, why would you not choose the D600 and cover all ISOs?

Originally posted by normhead

From Thom Hogan's article...

Interesting, between the other thread and this one, that would be pretty much the informed conclusion...6400 ISO would seem to be the point at which you can actually see a differeence between a K-3 and a D600. The other corollary, is if 100% of the your shooting is done 3200 or below, there is no discernible difference.

Ouch...

Mr. Hogan and myself would get along just fine...

Andi Lo · 10-31-2013, 06:42 AM

For an article that champions APSC it's too bad he missed mentioning pentax's APSC lineup (while mentioning the M43), would've been a nice boost to Pentax. Perhaps someone could mention it to him?

D600 has some disadvantages to K3, most notably FPS, SR, and quiet shutter. (D600 quiet mode isn't that quiet). Also a the value of telephoto lenses is a bit higher in APSC; all in all the lenses are smaller if you dont need to have thin DOF (if you do, the lenses are actually smaller in FF). Pentax also have a decent lineup of cheap and light WR lenses. All of Nikon's WR lenses are expensive and heavy (all of them are excellent optically though)

Advantages of D600 (other than high ISO) have been covered ad nauseum in this thread and in Thom's article. One thing I think not mentioned yet is that Nikon's SDM (AF-S) lenses are really cheap and reliable (offsetting the lack of quite shutter)

johnmflores · 10-31-2013, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by PBandJ

Which leads to the next question: if the price between the D600 and K3 is virtually the same, which it was on some recent (Oct 22) sales, why would you not choose the D600 and cover all ISOs?

The DA and FA Limiteds for a start.

**boriscleto** · 10-31-2013, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by cfraz

I stopped reading at

You stopped reading because he presented a fact?

10-30-2013, 08:27 PM	#287
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Blue Collar 12800 Last edited by Eric Auer; 10-30-2013 at 08:35 PM.

10-31-2013, 06:42 AM	#298
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	For an article that champions APSC it's too bad he missed mentioning pentax's APSC lineup (while mentioning the M43), would've been a nice boost to Pentax. Perhaps someone could mention it to him? D600 has some disadvantages to K3, most notably FPS, SR, and quiet shutter. (D600 quiet mode isn't that quiet). Also a the value of telephoto lenses is a bit higher in APSC; all in all the lenses are smaller if you dont need to have thin DOF (if you do, the lenses are actually smaller in FF). Pentax also have a decent lineup of cheap and light WR lenses. All of Nikon's WR lenses are expensive and heavy (all of them are excellent optically though) Advantages of D600 (other than high ISO) have been covered ad nauseum in this thread and in Thom's article. One thing I think not mentioned yet is that Nikon's SDM (AF-S) lenses are really cheap and reliable (offsetting the lack of quite shutter) Last edited by Andi Lo; 10-31-2013 at 06:51 AM.

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10-30-2013, 06:56 PM	#286
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by jsherman999 FYI, may be of interest: Top thread on dpreview right now, contains some interesting info further in: Imaging Resource K-3 Test Images Those guys are scary.

10-30-2013, 09:00 PM	#288
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Oh why the hell not, 25600.....

10-30-2013, 11:23 PM	#289
civiletti Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 1,435	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Am I the only person who doesn't give a fig at what pictures (from any camera) look like at 12,800 ISO? I've never used it, and never will. I know that it's important to some, but am I really in a minority of one? 95% of my photos are at either iso 80 or iso 1600. I have used very high iso's only rarely.

10-30-2013, 11:28 PM	#290
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by civiletti 95% of my photos are at either iso 80 or iso 1600. I have used very high iso's only rarely. Too bad

10-31-2013, 04:52 AM	#291
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Interesting view on sensor size and the relative merits by Thom Hogan today (I was not sure in which thread his would rightly belong): http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-full-frame-debate.html

10-31-2013, 05:55 AM	#292
fwbigd Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Fort Worth TX Posts: 339	Originally posted by Adam You can always get one camera to get a photo that looks better than from the other, and vice versa. It just depends on the shooting conditions, lens, and settings. I'm sure that most users won't be able to tell the two cameras apart, but now that the d600 is just $250 more than the k-3, are people going to be able to resist the ff urge? As an owner of both the Nikon D600 and the Pentax K-5IIs, IMHO there is no advantage to a FF camera over an APS-C sensor unless your shooting at ISO above 1200. Since I shot mostly studio at ISO 200, I prefer the image quality of the K-5IIs with the 50-135 F2.8 over the D600 with with the Nikon 24-120 F4 or 70-200 F4. I will let you know what I think when I receive my K-3 Premium Silver Edition.

10-31-2013, 06:06 AM	#293
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Interesting view on sensor size and the relative merits by Thom Hogan today (I was not sure in which thread his would rightly belong): http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-full-frame-debate.html I stopped reading at Quote: While full frame sensors have come down in price, every time they do, a crop sensor should come down in price by as much as a factor of eight.

10-31-2013, 06:07 AM	#294
PBandJ Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Washington DC metro area Photos: Gallery Posts: 480	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Interesting view on sensor size and the relative merits by Thom Hogan today (I was not sure in which thread his would rightly belong): http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-full-frame-debate.html Nice --he mentions the forgotten K-01 as one in the better quality ("B") group!

10-31-2013, 06:11 AM	#295
mamethot Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Greater Montreal Area Posts: 736	Originally posted by PBandJ Nice --he mentions the forgotten K-01 as one in the better quality ("B") group! With the proper lenses it's not a bad camera...but I found it difficult to get consistent results in terms of focus...

10-31-2013, 06:22 AM	#296
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	From Thom Hogan's article... Quote: But wait a minute, you're saying, doesn't FX have a one-stop advantage over DX? Maybe, but can you actually see a one stop advantage? That's a question you should really ask. For example, DxOmark ranks the D610 and D7100 this way: D610: 25.1 bits color depth, 14.4 EV dynamic range, 2925 ISO D7100: 24.2 bits color depth, 13.7 EV dynamic range, 1256 ISO I'd argue that 99% of you reading this can't see the differences in color depth, 95%+ can't see the differences in dynamic range, and the only way most of you will see the difference in ISO handling is if we push to an extreme (I'm guess we'd have to get out to ISO 6400 before most of you would clearly see a difference after my post processing). Interesting, between the other thread and this one, that would be pretty much the informed conclusion...6400 ISO would seem to be the point at which you can actually see a differeence between a K-3 and a D600. The other corollary, is if 100% of the your shooting is done 3200 or below, there is no discernible difference. Quote: Why the heck are the camera makers trying to get you to buy more expensive cameras? As I noted earlier, it's because unit sales are going down. To keep their overall sales and profit numbers up, they need to get you to buy upscale from where you were. Ouch... Mr. Hogan and myself would get along just fine...

10-31-2013, 06:35 AM	#297
PBandJ Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Washington DC metro area Photos: Gallery Posts: 480	Which leads to the next question: if the price between the D600 and K3 is virtually the same, which it was on some recent (Oct 22) sales, why would you not choose the D600 and cover all ISOs? Originally posted by normhead From Thom Hogan's article... Interesting, between the other thread and this one, that would be pretty much the informed conclusion...6400 ISO would seem to be the point at which you can actually see a differeence between a K-3 and a D600. The other corollary, is if 100% of the your shooting is done 3200 or below, there is no discernible difference. Ouch... Mr. Hogan and myself would get along just fine...

10-31-2013, 06:49 AM	#299
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by PBandJ Which leads to the next question: if the price between the D600 and K3 is virtually the same, which it was on some recent (Oct 22) sales, why would you not choose the D600 and cover all ISOs? The DA and FA Limiteds for a start.

10-31-2013, 06:53 AM	#300
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,477	Originally posted by cfraz I stopped reading at You stopped reading because he presented a fact?

Nice D600 vs K-3 Comparison Gallery

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