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View Poll Results: Which is which?
File one = K-3, File two = K-5 IIs 27264.00%
File one = K-5 IIs, File two = K-3 15336.00%
Voters: 425. You may not vote on this poll

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11-04-2013, 04:09 PM   #136
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Can we do this again...

At ISO 1600? One should expect very minute differences due to the re-scaling of the larger K3 image. But what about noise? A similar comparison with rescaling would be extremely valuable to me. All we've seen so far are 100% comparisons, which aren't really comparable when it comes to noise.

11-04-2013, 04:19 PM   #137
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I voted that file 1 is from K5ii , file 2 from K3 .
Just because I see that file 2 has smoothy and beautiful color and still hold its sharpness. Simply , pic 2 is more beautiful than pic1.

After many people said that file 1 has more details , I put them into showFoto (Linux) and zoom maximum into the fences in front of the house. I see that file 2 ( K-3) has more details than file 1 ( K5iis) . Checking for the patterns of the brick fence will see that the fence from file1 is the parterns of tree color (green, pink, blue ,,..) , the fence from file 2 still has square shapes .

If I'm right , I won't be disappointed to get K-3 later soon.

Hope the true result not upset me )
11-04-2013, 04:23 PM   #138
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Also, because the K-3's image (the first) is so much sharper than the K-5iis' (the second), and if K-3's wasn't just shrunk using the grossly oversharpening "Nearest Neighbor" method: Then I suspect the K-3 may perform sharpening on RAW files, based on metadata delivered by the lens?

To rule out this possibility (or to reveal it), I suggest this comparison should be repeated with a 3rd party lens (e.g. a Sigma), or even better, with a very old, non-electronic Pentax lens (if a manual Takumar's fokus ring gets fixed with tape after manual fokussing, this would rule out arbitrary differences in auto-focus precision, as well).
11-04-2013, 04:36 PM   #139
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Guys, new insight:

The differences were due to different focussing!

The K-3's (first) image is sharper in the center (which most of us saw),
But the K-5iis' (second) Image is sharper near the edges! (so pTom and others are right as well).

Bottomline:
- The lens used has a noticable curvature of field, even stronger than the depth of field.
- the cameras' AF calibrations were calibrated (or not-yet-calibrated) differently regarding the lens used.

Bottomline: The comparison appears pretty meaningless now.
Maybe it could be repeated with the lens focussed by one camera, then both cameras are switched to MF, and the focusing ring is fixed with tape? But this could be meaningless as well, unless there's a guarantee that the sensors have the exact same distance from the lens mount.
Maybe just using contrast-AF-peaking next time would be a better idea.


Last edited by Frater; 11-04-2013 at 04:55 PM.
11-04-2013, 04:49 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
Hope the true result not upset me
It will. Can't you people read?
QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Then I suspect the K-3 may perform sharpening on RAW files, based on metadata delivered by the lens?
Are you serious? Lightroom/ACR pre-sharpens pictures on default settings. It sharpens them even if you turn the detail tab off. Then it sharpens the output when scaling by default.

Last edited by jaad75; 11-04-2013 at 04:55 PM.
11-04-2013, 05:06 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Guys, new insight:

The differences were due to different focussing!

The K-3's (first) image is sharper in the center (which most of us saw),
But the K-5iis' (second) Image is sharper near the edges! (so pTom and others are right as well).

Bottomline:
- The lens used has a noticable curvature of field, even stronger than the depth of field.
- the cameras' AF calibrations were calibrated (or not-yet-calibrated) differently regarding the lens used.

Bottomline: The comparison appears pretty meaningless now.
Maybe it could be repeated with the lens focussed by one camera, then both cameras are switched to MF, and the focusing ring is fixed with tape? But this could be meaningless as well, unless there's a guarantee that the sensors have the exact same distance from the lens mount.
Maybe just using contrast-AF-peaking next time would be a better idea.
Thank you for pointing this out !
Just checked that the image 1 is sharper in the center.
I'm a bit confused !

So the test is not valid because the pictures were not shoot at the same time, the focus points are not the same and even different processing .... !!!
11-04-2013, 05:12 PM   #142
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So, the first pic was from the k3 and the second from the k5iis.

Whats funny is that until the smart alecs started posting replies, the poll was split 50-50 Says something, doesn't it?

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11-04-2013, 05:19 PM - 1 Like   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Says something, doesn't it?
Says that a lot of people have no idea what to look at. And I don't mean the metadata this time.

11-04-2013, 05:35 PM   #144
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I wonder how the result would look if we tried comparing K-3 and D800. But they can't use the exact same lens, so there would be another variable, I guess.. unless they would use adapters and they could both use the same lens, but even then an image circle being too big could lower contrast
Edit: Oh, and I voted 1 being K-3, seemed to have more detail to me, though I wasnt sure if its just wind affecting sharpness. Reading the posts in this thread, yea, they know what the look out for
11-04-2013, 05:43 PM - 1 Like   #145
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Gosh new cameras make us touchy - why are people annoyed that someone reads the poll, looks at the images, votes, then reads all the comments?
Relax and enjoy the camera you have: stress kills & some of us may be dead before the delivery truck pulls up...
11-04-2013, 05:46 PM   #146
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Ummm...all these comments about moire'. I don't believe that is what it is. I think it might just simply be CA.


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11-04-2013, 05:50 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
all these comments about moire'. I don't believe that is what it is. I think it is just simply CA. The reason why it is less evident on B is because that image is out of focus.
There is some CA and some moire.
11-04-2013, 06:02 PM   #148
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I guessed right. If you have to look that closely at a photo then there better be other things besides IQ making your decision.
11-04-2013, 06:20 PM   #149
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I didn't buy the K-3 for IQ alone. If it was as good as my K5, great, any better is a bonus. It is the AF performance. And so far I'm satisfied.
11-04-2013, 06:39 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Whats funny is that until the smart alecs started posting replies, the poll was split 50-50 Says something, doesn't it?
Yes, but the big question is what it says.

For sure it isn't the case that the difference between a K-5 IIs and a K-3 is like that between an iPhone 3GS and a Hasseblad H5D-40.

But from your experiment you cannot conclude that the K-5 IIs and K-3 are "too close to call".

If you really want to know whether people can pick out a difference then focus, WB, RAW development (avoid ACR (= LR & PS), if you can), etc. must all be the same.

I would then strongly suggest to upscale the smaller image to the larger size (instead of downscaling the larger image to the smaller size). When you downscale, you invariably lose detail that is then lost for comparison.

Finally, let people know which upscaling method you've used and whether you applied any post-sharpening. Whatever you do in the scaling process can have a bigger impact on the images than the two different sensors produce in the first place.
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