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11-07-2013, 03:48 PM   #31
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Mmm hmm.

I see you need to cut down on your cholesterol. Also, please check the rear passenger-side tire on your car -- needs air.

11-07-2013, 04:31 PM   #32
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Interesting.

The flash sure looks like it fired in both files, the shutter speed was OK, aperture was normal, the metering scheme looks normal, according to the EXIF, but clearly there is no evidence of flash in your image. Very strange.

Normally I'd say your flash was dead, but if you see a flash from both the internal and external flash then obviously they are alive.

It is almost as if the shutter is totally out of sync with the flash.

However there are a few puzzling things:

- why are your out-of-camera K-3 JPG's so small (2 or 3 MB). The ones I've seen are generally larger - 5 to 13MB.
- the EXIF here still seems to be missing tons of stuff - eg where are the flash exposure data points?

As you can see from the attached text file (derived from from one of the sample JPEG's in the K-3 samples area, using exiftool v9.34 - view it with word wrap on ), there should be data about how the camera was metering every AE point, every flash metering point etc.

Puzzlingly, exiftool v9.39 seems to be skipping lots of data collected by the earlier exiftool v9.34, for some reason. If you have the time, could you run your images through exiftool 9.34 and see if it reveals that the flash metering segments are actually recording anything?

You should see a large block of data that looks like this (except with non-zeros in it, ideally):

Flash Metering Segments : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

I'm just trying to see if the camera recorded anything about how to meter the scene for flash.

Also if you try shooting an image with live view and flash, does it work then?
Just trying to figure out how the camera is viewing the scene.
Attached Files
File Type: txt IMGPO174.TXT (36.2 KB, 117 views)
11-07-2013, 04:38 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Interesting.

The flash sure looks like it fired in both files, the shutter speed was OK, aperture was normal, the metering scheme looks normal, according to the EXIF, but clearly there is no evidence of flash in your image. Very strange.

Normally I'd say your flash was dead, but if you see a flash from both the internal and external flash then obviously they are alive.

It is almost as if the shutter is totally out of sync with the flash.

However there are a few puzzling things:

- why are your out-of-camera K-3 JPG's so small (2 or 3 MB). The ones I've seen are generally larger - 5 to 13MB.
- the EXIF here still seems to be missing tons of stuff - eg where are the flash exposure data points?

As you can see from the attached text file (derived from from one of the sample JPEG's in the K-3 samples area, using exiftool v9.34), there should be data about how the camera was metering every AE point, every flash metering point etc.

Puzzlingly, exiftool v9.39 seems to be skipping lots of data collected by the earlier exiftool v9.34, for some reason. If you have the time, could you run your images through exiftool 9.34 and see if it reveals that the flash metering segments are actually recording anything?

You should see a large block of data that looks like this (except with non-zeros in it, ideally):

Flash Metering Segments : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

I'm just trying to see if the camera recorded anything about how to meter the scene for flash.

Also if you try shooting an image with live view and flash, does it work then?
Just trying to figure out how the camera is viewing the scene.




As much as I'd like to explore this mystery, the camera is now boxed up and ready for return. Clearly, something is just not right with it, and I'd rather be out taking pictures.
11-07-2013, 04:40 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
However there are a few puzzling things:

- why are your out-of-camera K-3 JPG's so small (2 or 3 MB). The ones I've seen are generally larger - 5 to 13MB.
.
JPGs are probably small because there is so little detail that it compressed a lot.

dave k

11-07-2013, 04:52 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
As much as I'd like to explore this mystery, the camera is now boxed up and ready for return.
Fair enough. Let Pentax figure it out. It's their job. All the best.

So flash looks like another thing to examine during any K-3 pre-check ...
11-07-2013, 06:02 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Fair enough. Let Pentax figure it out. It's their job. All the best.

So flash looks like another thing to examine during any K-3 pre-check ...


Out of curiosity tho, the older version does spit out more numbers. See the attachment.
Attached Files
File Type: txt CJS_0125.txt (39.2 KB, 85 views)
11-07-2013, 06:38 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
the older version does spit out more numbers
Yes, it's scary isn't it, seeing all that metering point data.

I wonder why newer exiftool ignores that information.

And as you can see from the v9.34 data dump, there's plenty of info in there to suggest that the camera did indeed meter something for gazillions of individual flash metering points, probably from the pre-flash, as well as regular AE points. So the camera comprehensively read the scene and knew what to do with flash exposure. But it just failed to make it work. A puzzle.

I have a sneaking feeling there is probably a simple explanation for your problem, but it is still not normal. In-built flash should just work in a simple and predictable way, and it normally does. So it is probably some other element of the camera's hardware linked to the flash that is not functioning correctly.
11-13-2013, 02:44 AM   #38
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I must report that I have the same problem with the external flash.
K3 serial: 4828934



11-15-2013, 08:08 PM   #39
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I've been doing some tests tonight with the new camera.

All is good. In fact, I am super impressed with this camera's wireless function. The K-5 wasn't nearly as responsive in low light situations. Fantastic. If the flash isn't working properly, send it back or send it in for repairs.
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3  Photo 

Last edited by konraDarnok; 11-15-2013 at 08:15 PM.
11-15-2013, 09:58 PM   #40
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sorry to hear people's problems and hijack this thread... is there anything new with the flash on the k-3 vs k-5?

is there p-ttl and thus HSS using popup flash? ive read lots of "rumour" threads (pre release) speculating so, but no definitive answer if it is true?
11-16-2013, 12:41 AM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by chickenandavocado Quote
is there p-ttl and thus HSS using popup flash?
P-TTL, yes, of course. HSS - no.
11-16-2013, 09:58 PM   #42
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thx for the response.
11-17-2013, 11:08 AM   #43
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Troubleshooting step

I have a K3 that exhibits the same behavior and not just with flash. Using the same settings from shot to shot, about 60% will have different exposures. I finally figured out the variable was in the aperture setting. When I moved to a manual aperture the exposure was 100% consistent. On the "A" setting the camera was responsible for setting the aperture and it was miscommunicating. It took me almost a year to finally get smart enough to try the manual setting. I am so happy that the K3 I have does not (knock wood) have the same issue. Not that big a deal to set the aperture manually but a manual aperture is not compatible with many desirable functions, such as PTTL, green mode, P mode and so on.
11-18-2013, 04:05 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by TheBlindHog Quote
I have a K3 that exhibits the same behavior and not just with flash. Using the same settings from shot to shot, about 60% will have different exposures. I finally figured out the variable was in the aperture setting. When I moved to a manual aperture the exposure was 100% consistent. On the "A" setting the camera was responsible for setting the aperture and it was miscommunicating. It took me almost a year to finally get smart enough to try the manual setting. I am so happy that the K3 I have does not (knock wood) have the same issue. Not that big a deal to set the aperture manually but a manual aperture is not compatible with many desirable functions, such as PTTL, green mode, P mode and so on.
Cannot this be an issue of a physically stuck aperture lever? My Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 does this sometimes after a quick burst on the K-30: the aperture lever gets stuck at the full open position and I have to push it up manually. It can be that in your case the peg in the camera pushes (hits?) the aperture lever too hard and it bounces or overshoots a little due to the return spring.
11-18-2013, 05:41 PM   #45
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Cannot this be an issue of a physically stuck aperture lever?

I don't know. It was a problem with every lens I put on it and the solution was the same for every lens: manual settings only. I have no idea what the problem was, just how to solve it.
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