Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-18-2013, 11:25 PM   #46
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 340
Here is a video demonstrating the shutter lag:



11-18-2013, 11:42 PM - 1 Like   #47
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Prince George, BC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,324
Properly exposed images trump a 1/4 second lag in my book.

Jack
11-19-2013, 01:59 AM   #48
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,801
QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
Properly exposed images trump a 1/4 second lag in my book.
Agreed.
If it was 5 seconds I would be worried.
11-19-2013, 02:38 AM   #49
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 54
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Agreed.
If it was 5 seconds I would be worried.
Yeah I agree, but there shouldn't be a delay in the first place. I'm sure the K5iis metered well and produced great auto-flash images but it didn't have a lag.

Why are people all of a sudden beginning to accept this lag and finding compromises for the K3? People did exactly the same when the K10D came out and it produced "soft" images and white balance was way out. People came up with reasons to try to justify their purchases.

Sure you spent a lot of money on a K3, I did too, and my expectation is that it atleast works right.

11-19-2013, 03:10 AM   #50
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,801
QuoteOriginally posted by Teal Quote
Sure you spent a lot of money on a K3, I did too, and my expectation is that it atleast works right.
My K-3 hasn't arrived yet, FWIW.

'Works right' is also a rubbery and relative concept - for some 'right' could mean 'accurate', for others it could mean 'fast', and others it could mean 'accurate and fast'. And what's fast for one user could be slow for another. Other may also view something that works 'right' as something that 'works like previous cameras did'.

The 'relative' part of the question comes from a quick Google search on 'Nikon flash delay':

Delay from shutter release & actuation in flash photography (D300 ...
www.dpreview.com/forums/post/31014271‎
Feb 15, 2009 - I wonder if any one can help. I am suffering a delay in the shutter release of a second or two from first pressing shutter release to taking picture.
D600 very slow in taking picture when using internal flash: Nikon ... 31 Mar 2013
D600 shutter delays response when build-in flash is popped up ... 22 Oct 2012
Delay in taking pictures when using flash!!!???: Nikon DX SLR ... 19 Jun 2011
Delay in D300 on-camera flash: Nikon Pro DX SLR (D300, D200

etc
11-19-2013, 04:56 AM   #51
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 54
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
My K-3 hasn't arrived yet, FWIW.

'Works right' is also a rubbery and relative concept - for some 'right' could mean 'accurate', for others it could mean 'fast', and others it could mean 'accurate and fast'. And what's fast for one user could be slow for another. Other may also view something that works 'right' as something that 'works like previous cameras did'.

The 'relative' part of the question comes from a quick Google search on 'Nikon flash delay':

Delay from shutter release & actuation in flash photography (D300 ...
www.dpreview.com/forums/post/31014271‎
Feb 15, 2009 - I wonder if any one can help. I am suffering a delay in the shutter release of a second or two from first pressing shutter release to taking picture.
D600 very slow in taking picture when using internal flash: Nikon ... 31 Mar 2013
D600 shutter delays response when build-in flash is popped up ... 22 Oct 2012
Delay in taking pictures when using flash!!!???: Nikon DX SLR ... 19 Jun 2011
Delay in D300 on-camera flash: Nikon Pro DX SLR (D300, D200

etc
Then I'm looking for some sort of explanation why the K3 exhibits that form of delay whereas its predecessors didn't. Is this some kind of advancement? How?

Whatever terminology people may use to describe it, the fact is it's behaviour is noticeable between auto-flash and manual-flash. It is also noticeable between the k5(ii/s) which until recently was the flagship versus the K3.
11-19-2013, 08:19 AM   #52
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area)
Posts: 1,491
QuoteOriginally posted by Teal Quote
I'm sure the K5iis metered well and produced great auto-flash images but it didn't have a lag.
It didn't, though.

The K-7, K-5, and K-5II/s (at least) all suffered from P-TTL problems, including radically incorrect exposure calculations in many bounce flash situations. Pentax has said that a hardware problem prevented this problem from ever being fixed in those cameras.

The K-3, from all accounts, gets P-TTL right. Finally! If this delay is the price to pay for that, then I'm willing to pony up.
11-19-2013, 08:27 AM   #53
Veteran Member
awaldram's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hampshire
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 720
QuoteOriginally posted by Teal Quote
Yeah I agree, but there shouldn't be a delay in the first place. I'm sure the K5iis metered well and produced great auto-flash images but it didn't have a lag.
You don't know the k7/5/5ii/5iis Achilles heel then ?
As you statement is 100% incorrect try googling k5 bounce issue.

11-19-2013, 08:35 AM   #54
Veteran Member
awaldram's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hampshire
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 720
QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
It didn't, though.

The K-7, K-5, and K-5II/s (at least) all suffered from P-TTL problems, including radically incorrect exposure calculations in many bounce flash situations. Pentax has said that a hardware problem prevented this problem from ever being fixed in those cameras.

The K-3, from all accounts, gets P-TTL right. Finally! If this delay is the price to pay for that, then I'm willing to pony up.
From my experiments the k3 is at more accurate than E-TTLii and at least as accurate as CLS its a breath off fresh air and obviously Ricoh has spent many man hour ensuring errors the k10d/k20 (under exposure) and k7/k5/k5ii/s (bounce over and some distance inconsistency) are truly put to bed .
If your flash has enough power you will get well exposed shots time after time in all circumstances (at least those I've tried).

I can't understand this hang up on a 1/10th of a second given the response it looks like many complaining haven't extensively used flash previously.
11-19-2013, 01:26 PM   #55
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area)
Posts: 1,491
QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
If this delay is the price to pay for that, then I'm willing to pony up.
I should clarify my own post.

I'm NOT AT ALL thrilled to have to buy a new camera to solve a fundamental problem with my existing K-5 that Hoya should have addressed long ago and for free.

But this P-TTL shutter delay sounds like a nothingburger to me.
11-19-2013, 02:00 PM   #56
dbh
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Edmonton
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 404
On the topic of the lag - I hadn't noticed that at all until reading this thread and then looking for it, that's how significant that issue is for me.
On the wider topic of K-3 Flash Issues here's another odd but marginally insignificant observation: When I have a legacy manual lens attached to the camera and one of the Pentax hot-shoe flash guns mounted and then switch the flash unit to wireless controller mode, the K-5ii will immediately disable this wireless mode on the flash gun and set it to P-TTL for me, but the K-3 will leave it indicating enabled, implying that everything is armed and ready, and then just not fire the flash. It kind of comes across as though the flash subroutines were not quite completed when the K-3 was released, or at least not as fully polished in some ways as the K-5ii. Better metering notwithstanding, of course.
As long as I don't make mistakes like leaving the ISO set too high, etc. I have found the flash exposures to be consistently accurate with the K-3.
11-19-2013, 02:27 PM   #57
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 54
I suppose it's subjective whether this lag is important to whomever. If you guys are happy with the lag on your units....good onya.

I for one don't like this lag because of the photography I do. That's just my opinion. For me, a delay is a delay is a delay. Whether that's hardware, firmware, or that's how it's now supposed to be because they've improved in things.

I would have thought that by the time you've achieved focus lock and gained the exposure metering, the camera has all the information it already needs to set the proper flash exposure, rather than trying to re-assess the exposure again when the shutter button is pressed. Kind of a redundant step to me.
11-19-2013, 02:52 PM   #58
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area)
Posts: 1,491
QuoteOriginally posted by Teal Quote
I would have thought that by the time you've achieved focus lock and gained the exposure metering, the camera has all the information it already needs to set the proper flash exposure, rather than trying to re-assess the exposure again when the shutter button is pressed. Kind of a redundant step to me.
The way P-TTL works - and AFAIK the Canon and Nikon systems are similar - an initial (non-flash) exposure measurement is taken as you are composing and in the process of pressing the shutter button.

Then, when you completely press the button, the flash emits a relatively low-power "pre-flash" and meters the result, to determine how much effect the flash will have on the final exposure. This allows the camera to automatically take into account the distance to the scene (not just the focal distance, but everything else too) as well as the effects of bounced light and/or diffusers. Without the pre-flash the camera can't account for these complicating factors.

The camera then adjusts the flash power level to achieve the desired result, then takes the shot with another flash pulse. There's a short delay between the pre-flash and the actual exposure. I'm sure the engineers try to minimize that delay as much as possible.
11-19-2013, 03:58 PM   #59
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 54
Thanks for the explanation Quicksand.
01-31-2014, 06:28 PM   #60
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 111
This delay actually seems quite significant. To me it almost seems like half a second. The delay is not between the pre-flash and flash, its between pressing the shutter and the pre-flash. This is making it impossible to do flash photography on the K3. For example, if I want to take a picture of my son, after I press the shutter, he already looks away, before the flash has fired. This is how slow this is.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
dslr, flash, k-3, k-3 flash, k3, pentax k-3, picture
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WB issue in LR 5 with K-3 DNG Azzy Pentax K-3 21 12-16-2013 04:51 PM
K-5 IIs firmware 1.03 improves tilt flash overexposure issue bjdavey Pentax K-5 11 03-11-2013 10:42 AM
Pentax K-m flash issue mmand Pentax DSLR Discussion 8 01-23-2013 09:36 AM
Weird white balance issue on my K-5 with flash Codazzle Pentax K-5 3 01-02-2013 04:04 PM
K-5 and Off-camera Flash Sync Issue stevelink Pentax K-5 10 12-26-2011 05:51 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:21 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top