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12-05-2013, 03:20 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
5. Enable switching between optical viewfinder and LCD monitor
This is impossible when shooting video on a DSLR; when shooting video, the mirror moves out of the way of the sensor, which causes the optical viewfinder to appear black. It's unavoidable. It's also part of why Sony stopped making SLRs and switched to translucent mirrors, which can stay down when shooting video.

12-05-2013, 04:37 PM - 1 Like   #17
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Technology has no limitation . It's just when it happens, now or later .
I don't know how it can do .

Just for now , I prefer to monitor shooting thru optical viewfinder after pressing record button.

BTW, I saw Sony A77 has a smart eye sensor near optical viewfinder . When my eye was closed to it, the LCD was off . It's quick and wonderful convenience . I forgot to check if I could monitor shooting video thru optical viewfinder . Pana Lumix FZ200 does it easily.
12-05-2013, 06:41 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
Why talking about the out-of-date K-7, K-x , even K-5 !
It's very clear that all those cameras cannot compete Pana GH2/GH3 and other Canikons
Typing "pentax .. video test" from Youtube or Vimeo can prove this .
Actually the K-5 is sort of competitive, it's just few people have picked up the K-5. It has it's strong points (mechanical SR works great), and it's weak points (aliasing, limited selection of frame rates, hot pixels, not selection of shutter speeds). The GH3 is in a different league though.

QuoteQuote:
2. IQ from K-3 is much better than from K-5 , sharper and more contrast, deeper color ( You will love this )
Sharper due to more sharpening or sharper cause it is really sharper? I have actually dialed down sharpening as I'd like to have a bit more control over it and can do it in post, also I have dialed down contrast and saturation to get more dynamic range.
QuoteQuote:
8. K-3 is not too hot after long video recordings
YES! That's nice.
QuoteQuote:
9. MOV (H264) file is more artifacts than AVI (M-JEPG) file when panning fast
Bitrates are too low...


QuoteQuote:
1. If Pentax engineers cannot find a solution for all-the-time AF during video recording, Pentax engineers can discard all back-focused images during recording on SD card , it means replacing front-focused imaged with already back-focused images , so videos seem playing naturally from unfocused images to focused image. Therefore , video footage can be completely used and there is no need removing annoying 2-way unfocused images in video editing stage.
What? Wouldn't a couple of seconds be missing from the video? There will be a noticeable cut... which makes it pretty much useless, no? Might as well stop recording, focus, and start recording again. Or cut when editing, if you have to. I see very limited use for this... I'd rather have focus peaking during video recording. Manual focus is the way to go, but some assistance would be great.

QuoteQuote:
2. Enable the focus-rectangular button during video recording, so we can do re-focus to another subject within fix framing.
You'll hear the button sounds, the camera will shake due to you pressing around on it...

QuoteQuote:
5. Enable switching between optical viewfinder and LCD monitor

Mhhh... how are you going to use the optical viewfinder when the sensor needs to see the world? The Sony a77 does NOT have an optical viewfinder. At all. It has a monitor where there'd be the optical viewfinder.



QuoteQuote:
I see all 720/60p videos from my K-3 videos play in normal speed , not a half speed .
You can always slow down to whatever framerate you want in your editing software. There's no need to do these things in the camera.


For me the K-3 is a big letdown in terms of video, so much so that I wouldn't buy it because of that. If I had to I'd either buy another K-5 or switch brands.
12-05-2013, 07:38 PM   #19
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That was just someone approaching Pentax to do some changes in the next firmware to come.
That sentence was for Pentax - if they would listen to us here - to fullfill some of our wishes to
correct those mistakes we feel are on that camera till now, for example the death of sensor SR
while the video-mode is on ... so we can have another choice besides the movie-SR.

12-05-2013, 09:00 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote

For me the K-3 is a big letdown in terms of video, so much so that I wouldn't buy it because of that. If I had to I'd either buy another K-5 or switch brands.
Please give K-3 another chance

QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
That was just someone approaching Pentax to do some changes in the next firmware to come.
That sentence was for Pentax - if they would listen to us here - to fullfill some of our wishes to
correct those mistakes we feel are on that camera till now, for example the death of sensor SR
while the video-mode is on ... so we can have another choice besides the movie-SR.
Exactly !


Many thanks to your Voices ( Pentax supporter's )
12-05-2013, 10:28 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
Please give K-3 another chance



Exactly !


Many thanks to your Voices ( Pentax supporter's )
If Pentax fixes 2 things... Higher bitrates (perhaps at 4:2:2 and 4:4:4? Those are supported by h264...) and give us back mechanical SR, then I will consider the camera. Until then though...

Not that I have any hope of this ever happening. The K-01 came out... People complained about SR and bitrates being worse than before. Then came the K-30. Same thing. Then the K-50. Again. And finally the K-3, and thet still haven't learned. After years of customers wanting back mechanical SR... They still won't do it. And changing that in firmware, after the camera was already released... When they didn't bother to fix prior to the release... When it would have been easier... Not going to happen.

I think I will have to switch to Olympus one day... Cause they get it right, and have an even better SR system to begin with.
12-06-2013, 12:23 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
BTW, I saw Sony A77 has a smart eye sensor near optical viewfinder .
Here's the root of the misunderstanding. The A77 doesn't have an optical viewfinder, it has an electronic one (EVF). That's why you can use the viewfinder during video.

DSLRs (the ones that have an actual, proper optical viewfinder with prism and mirror, like the K-3 does) just can't, because the mirror has to be up during video, blocking the viewfinder.

Regards,
--Anders.
12-06-2013, 05:44 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
If Pentax fixes 2 things... Higher bitrates (perhaps at 4:2:2 and 4:4:4? Those are supported by h264...) and give us back mechanical SR, then I will consider the camera. Until then though...
Not that I have any hope of this ever happening. The K-01 came out... People complained about SR and bitrates being worse than before. Then came the K-30. Same thing. Then the K-50. Again. And finally the K-3, and thet still haven't learned. After years of customers wanting back mechanical SR... They still won't do it. And changing that in firmware, after the camera was already released... When they didn't bother to fix prior to the release... When it would have been easier... Not going to happen.
I think I will have to switch to Olympus one day... Cause they get it right, and have an even better SR system to begin with.
That's true.
...and there will be no famous Vitaly to hack the K-3 for better bitrates, etc ...
(I read that Panasonic has even employed Vitaly to directly work with him on
their new Lumixes GH)
Watch out for the new GH4 coming - with extraordinary rumours heard now.
Panasonic really knows how to serve the market well and up to the limit !

But Pentax is not aware of what they could manage with interested users - if there
are any left at all in terms of video.

RICOH hasn't helped Pentax to learn (if they had tried to) The K-3 is not good
enough to compete with strong Video-DSLRs like the other 3 or 5 brands.
The videocodec is poor and looses a lot quality in editing and uploads etc. The
K-5 is underdevelopped in manual acess - not a real choice for videographers.

Pentax tried in this ... and in that direction - but they have no vision they can build
on ... and continue to work on ... and even get better and better each time. All they
can is just to do another new try from the start ...

They did a K-7 and K-5 = dead end
They did a K-01 = dead end.
They did a K-30 and 50 = dead end
Now they did a K-3 = yawn .... Good try but a low bitrate, soft image, bad SR.

So whosoever watched what Pentax did in 4 years now to the last video-freaks
among us, can't easily even want to hold on to any more future dreams ... and
will change his mind and move to Panasonic, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Olympus ...
or whatever.
I'd say get an old good Lumix GH2 made in 2010 and you will have a better
camera Pentax can ever do in 2014 - for I lost hope they will ever resurrect.


Last edited by TomGarn; 12-07-2013 at 12:34 AM.
12-06-2013, 08:41 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I think I will have to switch to Olympus one day... Cause they get it right, and have an even better SR system to begin with.
If you research a bit more, you'll find out they have a crappy codec

The only DSLRs that do video right IMHO are the 5DmkIII (for allowing the magic lantern people to do the RAW video hack), and the GH3 (for the full sensor readout and great codec).

BTW, I did find out the Sony RX10 also does the full sensor readout thing. It's the only one I know of. But if you dig up reviews of it, they have codec bugs that cause stuttering and blocking up. But they were clearly aiming for the GH3 which is too bad because otherwise the RX10 package isn't bad at all (28-200/2.8 lens that is actually sharp? wow)...
The review I read on it at eoshd said every choice has a compromise at the moment...
12-07-2013, 02:14 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Not that I have any hope of this ever happening. The K-01 came out... People complained about SR and bitrates being worse than before. Then came the K-30. Same thing. Then the K-50. Again. And finally the K-3, and thet still haven't learned. After years of customers wanting back mechanical SR... They still won't do it. And changing that in firmware, after the camera was already released... When they didn't bother to fix prior to the release... When it would have been easier... Not going to happen.
oh , it's a "sad" story about Pentax's failure to fix some video features which most videographers want. I think Pentax engineeers haven't been "mature" in the new technology field - video . Ricoh/Pentax should better steal some video specialists from .. Pana or Sony.

I agree that NOT to buy ANY Pentax for any serious video use.

QuoteOriginally posted by asp1880 Quote
Here's the root of the misunderstanding. The A77 doesn't have an optical viewfinder, it has an electronic one (EVF). That's why you can use the viewfinder during video.

DSLRs (the ones that have an actual, proper optical viewfinder with prism and mirror, like the K-3 does) just can't, because the mirror has to be up during video, blocking the viewfinder.
Andre, thank you for the inf. Now I understand the EVF .


QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
...and there will be no famous Vitaly to hack the K-3 for better bitrates, etc ...
(I read that Panasonic has even employed Vitaly to directly work with him on their new Lumixes GH)
To me, Vitaly is "DEAD" because Pana has locked GH3 and all other cameras after GH2 was hacked. I hear no more hack for GH3 or any others. Don't donate Vitaly to do hacking, let donate Ricoh/Pentax so they can hire a video specialist to do our wish
12-07-2013, 04:36 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
oh , it's a "sad" story about Pentax's failure to fix some video features which most videographers want. I think Pentax engineeers haven't been "mature" in the new technology field - video . Ricoh/Pentax should better steal some video specialists from .. Pana or Sony.

I agree that NOT to buy ANY Pentax for any serious video use.



Andre, thank you for the inf. Now I understand the EVF .




To me, Vitaly is "DEAD" because Pana has locked GH3 and all other cameras after GH2 was hacked. I hear no more hack for GH3 or any others. Don't donate Vitaly to do hacking, let donate Ricoh/Pentax so they can hire a video specialist to do our wish
They don't need to hire anyone actually, they would only have to listen to their users...

Though I wouldn't mind working at Pentax to get stuff right. I'd also make them do their video ads themself. Make them use their cameras for actual video work. Maybe then they'd understand
12-07-2013, 06:55 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
Haven't you got a K-3 ?

During video recording, if you press AF button , the camera will search for focus points by virtually moving left and moving right the (virtual) focus ring for a few times , decreasing a range of distance , then stopping in the middle of the range . You will see images (left) blurred, then focused , then (right) blurred , then focus and (left) blurred , then focused , ( right ) blurred ... .at last , focused . Now I want the software engineers not to record any the right blurred images into a video file. Therefore I can see the left blurred images going (slowly) to the focused image.
You seem to be describing the way contrast detect AF works. It's the only way it CAN work as it has to look for a peak in the contrast by going past the optimum and returning. All you can do is make it faster or slower. Camera manufacturers seem to think we need a slow AF in video, but CDAF has to 'pump' to find the focus so we actually get a slow pumping action hunting for focus rather than the desired smooth transition from one focal plane to another that makes it look like pro MF.
12-07-2013, 09:21 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB Quote
You seem to be describing the way contrast detect AF works. It's the only way it CAN work as it has to look for a peak in the contrast by going past the optimum and returning. All you can do is make it faster or slower. Camera manufacturers seem to think we need a slow AF in video, but CDAF has to 'pump' to find the focus so we actually get a slow pumping action hunting for focus rather than the desired smooth transition from one focal plane to another that makes it look like pro MF.
The AF has to be slow during video. The Sony a57 has a phase detect AF during video, and it works great. But it is quite fast, not smooth enough. (And they have already slowed it down, it could be much faster). Video cameras focus so slowly that you hardly notice the hunting, or for that matter the focusing. Granted they are aided by that big DoF the small sensor gives them... it's simply all in focus anyway.
12-07-2013, 10:33 PM   #29
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From AF ... to manual focussing

Please learn to forget about any new or better AF for video.
It can't never / ever be better in any camera ....... Why ?

Only YOU know where you want your focuspoint. And YOU will do it better
than any AF could do anyway ...
One always needs good learning about how the focus moves at your lense.
You slowly begin to feel what to do, for example: Should you need to turn left
or right to follow the object when it comes closer, or moves away ?

First get the right focus for the object by pulling back & forth ...
Then go to the next object and repeat this,
Then keep in mind how you need to turn the focus-ring.
Is it to the left .... or to the right ? ... And how far should you pull the focus ?
Try to memorize that movement .... and the direction ... (Not that easy !)

Then press record and do as you have just learned - if in doubt do it again -
and again - but slowly ... Later on you may even decide which panning was
better - also which panning direction to choose.

This is the way all professional cameramen do it - and this will be always a new
challenge for me too ...even after years of always pulling the focus ... but slowly
slowly one gets a feel for the lense // lenses,

Manual focus like this always goes through some blurred moments eventually, but
this is natural and it has to be so - and we all know it and accept that in movies and tv.
It is natural and much more intelligent anyway. It is a challenge - and you will love it,
because it tells you, how good and relaxed you really do controle your camera.

You are the master ... Learning that is fun and joy ... and it hurts if you did'nt do not
as good as you wanted it .... but you will keep the desire to do it better next time ...

For me it was a pain trying to do a good change of focus in that demo from that pool
in low light ... handheld ... because the Tamron I use on my K-7 has a very light-moving
focus-ring. There is no good damping and the distance to turn is not that good because
all these modern glasses of this kind are created for AF in photography of course !

Buit if you got a good manual lense that moves like butter & honey you will love it for
video-focussing, because it was done for manual focussing years ago and it can do
the job much better than most modern (photo) glasses. This is a great thing for Pentaxists
with their many choices of good old lenses ......

I got me a good lense now for 10,- € - it is a very rare and unknown glass, a Revuenon
70-200mm f3,8 ... The focus and the zoom is smooth as good sex ... Yes, you can zoom
manually too ... easily ... just like pulling the focus ... It works well for my old K-10, but
I need to take away some of that black coating where the camera-contacs touch the
lense. Pentax has forgotton to keep the down-compatibilty to glasses with coating in
their new modells ...


Please change your mind from AF in video to manual focussing. No AF can ever guess
right where your focus should really go to - it's just guessing like a stupid robot without
art and feeling - and it can never ever substitue your will at all ...

EDIT: Of course you will need a sharp displayviewfinder.
... Anyone here without one ?

Last edited by TomGarn; 12-08-2013 at 12:34 AM.
12-07-2013, 11:09 PM   #30
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Well, the Canon 70D lets you tap to focus, and since it has phase detect AF over the whole sensor (?) it will focus correctly onto any spot you tap on.


But yes, manual focus is IMHO the way to go too, though that isn't always possible/feasible, AND with the screen of the K-5 and probably K-3 it is quite hard to pull off. Manual focus, proper focus pulling is more for planned shoots, where you know what is going to happen, and, if possible, have an assistant who does the focusing for you. The K-5 and K-3 screen is way too small and way to low res... after all the camera shoots 1080p, but we get... like 480-600p through the screen? And only when we squint... it makes a big difference for me if the screen is in front of me, or lower down, where you'd normally hold the video camera. Lower down I can almost not judge sharpness at all. The a57 has a similar screen, maybe not even as good as the K-5, BUT it has focus peaking. I don't have any problem at all getting a sharp video on that one.


However I don't think they'll stick to manual focusing like that in professional filmmaking. Once AF becomes good enough... and it might be there soon... I mean often times in movies you see them focus on the wrong spot. That's not what they want I suppose. Now imagine... a 35mm sensor for film, with phase detect AF covering the whole sensor in a proper camera meant for big budget movie productions. The focus puller gets a display with touchscreen and can simply tap on what he wants to have in focus, with a physical button he can press to start focusing. If he keeps it pressed, the focus will be kept. Another physical control will let him chose how fast the focus motor is allowed to go. And all of that is coupled to a smooth motor, that may be attached to any existing lens (the camera would have to learn the lens somehow... perhaps by having someone stand in front of the camera, moving back on forth depending on how the camera demands it (to calibrate)). You can also keep the finger on the screen, moving around as you need to focus on different objects or track a subject that moves through the frame. --> Perfect focus, all the time, on exactly what the director wants to have the focus on, and all of that without having to mark down spots on the floor for actors, without having to measure the distance to the camera, without having to plan so much (which all costs time, and time is money, especially on a movie set). Do you really think filmmakers would pass on that? We are talking on cameras costing hundreds of thousands, I don't see any reason why they couldn't do it, except for only Canon having the tech at the moment/having patents perhaps. But Sony has similar tech using a mirror... and Sony also produces professional cinema cameras (Star Wars I-III was IIRC shot on Sony).


Your old lens is one where you have to pull it out to zoom, right? Those are great for video zooms... very smooth. And yeah, old lenses (or at least better lenses, like the limited ones) are much better for good focusing during video. That being said I'm quite decent with my 18-55 kit these days.
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