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12-09-2013, 07:13 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
@kenyee : thank for the link to learn edge detect focus assist. But I think it's not practical to use in uncontrolled events .
I'd still say in uncontrolled events, a DSLR isn't the right tool for now. The only one I'd try in that situation is Canon's 70D...but it'd be better w/ a camcorder or <cough> smartphone

I'm sure you've heard about the Chicago Tribune. Crappy newspaper, but they laid off all their pro photographers and taught their reporters how to capture photos/video w/ their iphones. Their photos look like crap now, but that's where event coverage is heading :-)

12-09-2013, 08:15 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
@kenyee : thank for the link to learn edge detect focus assist. But I think it's not practical to use in uncontrolled events . Anyway, it's one of the solutions for AF

@kadajawi : one day the camera LCD will be big as 5" Android phone. If not, hope to use a tablet pen to point and to draw a line or a curve for AF tracking following the pen

And for buttons, I also don't use any except stop/start while shooting . I have to keep camera steadily.
Edge detect focus assist works very well. You'll have to try it.

5" screens? I doubt it. The reason why we don't have bigger screens isn't cost but space. Unless you drop the physical controls it isn't going to happen. And I really hope that won't happen. You'll have to attach an external monitor/tablet for that then.
12-09-2013, 08:32 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
5" screens? I doubt it. The reason why we don't have bigger screens isn't cost but space. Unless you drop the physical controls it isn't going to happen. And I really hope that won't happen. You'll have to attach an external monitor/tablet for that then.
Already here. See Samsung Galaxy NX
4.8 inch HD LCD screen and complete absence of buttons.
12-09-2013, 11:07 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Already here. See Samsung Galaxy NX
4.8 inch HD LCD screen and complete absence of buttons.
Yup, but that's a consumer device, not a "proper" DSLR that people would actually use for work. At least I want physical controls.

12-10-2013, 12:03 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
... You'd have to set aperture, AE-L etc. before recording. But wouldn't you normally do that anyway, at least in more planned environments? Except for AE-L and perhaps exposure compensation I don't use any other button on the camera _while_ shooting. But I doubt you'd have such exposure changes when shooting the stuff that these rigs were made for... i.e. movies etc.
So why even take the hand off the camera ?
When I'm on the Canon60D I can change aperture while rolling.
With the K-3 one can look and change the sound while shooting I guess ?
Pushing On/OFF I have to have my hand on the body as well - why put it to some handle ?
An extra handle makes sense only when it has some functions on it - but DSLR has not developed that far.

Watch that - it's great - and true. (The original video - part one of two)
This thing is famous for it's low budget and clever simplicity.
There are many available different brands - mostly it's all just the same stuff.
But be aware to get the one with the quick-release-plate

Last edited by TomGarn; 12-10-2013 at 12:44 AM.
12-10-2013, 12:41 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
So why even take the hand off the camera ?
When I'm on the Canon60D I can change aperture while rolling.
With the K-3 one can look and change the sound while shooting I guess ?
Pushing On/OFF I have to have my hand on the body as well - why put it to some handle ?
An extra handle makes sense only when it has some functions on it - but DSLR has not developed that far.

Watch that - it's great - and true.
This thing is famous for it's low budget and clever simplicity.
There are many available with different brands mostly it's all just the same stuff.
But be aware to get the one with the quick-release-plate
DSLR Episode #10: $20 Dollar Shoulder Rig For HDSLR Use. - YouTube
Stability and control when moving the camera, I suppose. And being able to do that AND to focus is a big deal. Basically the point is to have the hands far apart from the camera. That way, if you roll a bit you won't notice it in the video. However if you are holding the camera directly, and you roll a bit, that WILL be noticed clearly. See also this one:


Changing the aperture while shooting... won't you get a sudden brightness change until the camera tries to adjust for it? Unless you have a stepless aperture I don't see any point in changing the aperture... unless you're going to cut that out anyway and just don't want to stop recording and then start again.
12-10-2013, 01:01 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Yup, but that's a consumer device, not a "proper" DSLR that people would actually use for work. At least I want physical controls.
How would you know what 'people' would use for work?
Touch screens are physical, they exist in the real world and you have to touch them, else nothing happens
And btw, it's not a dslr at all. It's a dslm (mirrorless)
12-10-2013, 02:34 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
How would you know what 'people' would use for work?
Touch screens are physical, they exist in the real world and you have to touch them, else nothing happens
And btw, it's not a dslr at all. It's a dslm (mirrorless)
I'm aware of the NX being a mirrorless camera. And that's where touchscreen only operation MIGHT still work. But a DSLR?


Well, people tend to like physical controls, especially when speed is of any importance. Do you use an iPad to type a thesis, or do you use a computer with a proper keyboard? Would you be fine with having a touchscreen for adjusting aperture, shutter speed and ISO? Why are cameras like the OM-D or the Fuji X series so popular, which emulate the way cameras from 30 years ago looked and felt like? Which have lots of manual controls?


From the engadget review of the NX:
QuoteQuote:
You can select from "expert" options like aperture and shutter priority, or a full manual mode, but the process of tweaking ISO and exposure is far more cumbersome than on a traditional mirrorless camera or DSLR, where dedicated dials and immediately accessible options make on-the-fly adjustments more straightforward.
Samsung Galaxy NX review: an overpriced Android-powered mirrorless camera


And I wouldn't be shocked if other reviews would say the same thing. We want things to be at the same spot, so we can memorize their location. But on a touchscreen that location can and has to vary depending on whatever mode you are in, making things complicated. For example, I used a *istDS before I switched to a K-5. On the *istDS I made use of the various focus points, because they are easily accessible. The 4 way button is always there to select the focus point... only when I pressed the Fn button could I go into things like white balance or ISO. I loved it, even though something frequently used as ISO was hidden like that, it was always that way. Didn't take any time at all. Now on the K-5 you can switch between 2 different modes, white balance etc. OR focus point selection. And then it'd stay there. Maybe. So I never know in which mode I actually am. After a while I just gave up... I neither use stuff such as white balance, nor do I select the focus point. It's center only now. Having ONLY the touchscreen to do everything would be like that... just way, way worse. I doubt anyone would want to use that... unless they are fans of the green mode. Maybe I'm very different from everyone else... but I doubt it.


Also I can't use the thing with the screen off either... so in the dark I'm blinded by the screen (few screens can actually dim down enough)... either I can change settings, or I can see what I am shooting. Great.

12-10-2013, 08:44 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
... Stability and control when moving the camera
... Basically the point is to have the hands far apart from the camera.
Changing the aperture while shooting... won't you get a sudden brightness change until the camera tries to adjust for it? Unless you have a stepless aperture I don't see any point in changing the aperture... unless you're going to cut that out anyway and just don't want to stop recording and then start again.
Aperture needs changing quite often in spontaneous shooting - especially for example when you use a
headlight on your camera.
If persons get to close - they will burn - so pull downe the f-stop. Yes, you can only turn from one f-stop
to the next. Our photo-glasses mostly have no variable and sliding f-stop. That is bad of course, but it is
better to have a visible quick jump than to stay with a wrong f-stop ...
Automatic f-stop can help too, sometimes, but not always - it has to be done manually mostly - if you care.

For me I like to try to unburden to the maximum. And I learned before on shoulder-camcorders which may
be a reason for I still try to just work with my hands on the body directly. But I once started with 8mm.
There you always have a handle but it is combined with a start/stop ... in my case it even had a fader to/from
black that I used manually for the beginning and end. Everything else was easily done by the left hand.

In video you use your right hand for the zoom controle besides the usual start/stop, anything else
is done with the left hand as well ...
In analog photography it used to be the same (lefthanded) Then with AF on your DSLR - the right hand
got more to do ... and just manual focussings and zooming stayed with the left hand and that works and
is OK and one gets used to that ... so why not keep the same for video ?

I agree of course, the micro-shaking can be very bad and many ways of different rigs do try to make
this more smooth and comfortable .... So one looks, tries, and finds what may be fitting the best and
most affordable for your budget.

This is the way if I had the money: (Stages zero, one and two only)

Last edited by TomGarn; 12-10-2013 at 07:27 PM.
12-10-2013, 08:55 AM   #55
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Hm, the GH3 is really lovely. I guess you'll soon be able to get it at a good price on the second hand market...? And if you're ok with the crop you'll be able to use all the lenses you already have...
12-10-2013, 05:28 PM   #56
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Original Poster
@kenyee :
Chicago Tribune has been right untill their customers still support them. It's a smart move to get (instant) news. I think their "editing" people have to work harder to fix photo/video footage. I had used some horrible photos and videos from "novice cameramen" to produce something could be watched on YouTube . Few months ago , I had asked anyone in "my team" who has a camera to "shoot video wherever you stand to shoot photo" and "please to keep that image for at least 5 seconds before moving camera away".


It's interested to hear some opinions about GUI design . I applaud Samsung for striking new tech on (whatever) camera. I predict that (whatever) DSLRs will have 5" thin-swivel-touch LCD and quick access buttons still on (side) camera. And we will have (instant/fast) remote control to control ISO, aperture, speed, distance .... , then your right hand can hold a camera and the left hand can use remote as a mobile phone

I remember when I bought HTC Desire HD since its first launch , many people said its 4.3" was too big , but now many mobile phones size upto 5" . The touchscreen also becomes an integral part of Ultrabooks . People will get used to new tech whatever they want or not . Many old people have to learn how to touch on phone screen in order to make (mobile) phone call . The famous smallest Nokia 8210 is in the past . It replaced by Google Nexus 4" , then Nexus 5".


I will try edge detect focus assist since you guys recommended and will keep an eye on GH3 price drop. I dreamed it last year because of its fastest AF , but too much money for both systems.

Last edited by pTom; 12-10-2013 at 07:11 PM.
12-10-2013, 06:45 PM   #57
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ng News ... The Ultimate SR ... Breaking News ... The Ultim


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRKu785g0O0#t=129
12-10-2013, 06:55 PM   #58
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It's so funny and great . I love it !

Thank you for the link .
12-10-2013, 08:15 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by pTom Quote
@kenyee :
Chicago Tribune has been right untill their customers still support them. It's a smart move to get (instant) news. I think their "editing" people have to work harder to fix photo/video footage. I had used some horrible photos and videos from "novice cameramen" to produce something could be watched on YouTube . Few months ago , I had asked anyone in "my team" who has a camera to "shoot video wherever you stand to shoot photo" and "please to keep that image for at least 5 seconds before moving camera away".


It's interested to hear some opinions about GUI design . I applaud Samsung for striking new tech on (whatever) camera. I predict that (whatever) DSLRs will have 5" thin-swivel-touch LCD and quick access buttons still on (side) camera. And we will have (instant/fast) remote control to control ISO, aperture, speed, distance .... , then your right hand can hold a camera and the left hand can use remote as a mobile phone

I remember when I bought HTC Desire HD since its first launch , many people said its 4.3" was too big , but now many mobile phones size upto 5" . The touchscreen also becomes an integral part of Ultrabooks . People will get used to new tech whatever they want or not . Many old people have to learn how to touch on phone screen in order to make (mobile) phone call . The famous smallest Nokia 8210 is in the past . It replaced by Google Nexus 4" , then Nexus 5".


I will try edge detect focus assist since you guys recommended and will keep an eye on GH3 price drop. I dreamed it last year because of its fastest AF , but too much money for both systems.
I might see that happen for dedicated video cameras... but for cameras that also have to work properly as still cameras you'll usually have 2 hands on the camera. I think cameras will retain their 3.x" screens, however you'll have the ability to connect it to your smartphone/tablet via WiFi. Then just get a rig that lets you attach the smartphone and you're done. If transfer speeds aren't good enough some more video focused cameras might have an optional touchscreen that is bigger (say 5") and has FullHD resolution (better yet 1920x1200 so it can display info without overlaying it on the screen). That screen would be wired and you could attach it to your rig. Some mirrorless cameras offered a hot shoe that supports an EVF.


If you care about video AF, then your option is the 70D and... perhaps a Sony SLT, though those do have other disadvantages.


And if sensor based SR is what you care about, AFAIK the Olympus OM-D E-M1 is the way to go. It has a superior SR to what Pentax uses, and it seems to work during video AFAIK. Bitrates are an issue though?
12-11-2013, 10:24 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
And if sensor based SR is what you care about, AFAIK the Olympus OM-D E-M1 is the way to go. It has a superior SR to what Pentax uses, and it seems to work during video AFAIK. Bitrates are an issue though?
OM-D codec apparently isn't very good either.

If pTom is serious about video, the GH4 coming next year sounds amazing...it's logical that Panasonic is the first to do it since they're one of the few who have been able to read the entire sensor for FHD w/o issues (the RX100 has glitches in their codec).
GH 4K From Panasonic Coming In First Half Of 2014 [Rumor]
It's not cheap, but it'll drop and it'll force everyone to up their game. Gotta love competition
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