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11-13-2013, 05:33 AM - 1 Like   #76
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I agree with the others. We need a re-do on the AF section using comparable APS-C bodies. That would be, D7100, D300S, 7D and/or 70D. The third-party Sigma 70-200 would work, or each manufacturer's 300mm f/4.

And a rewrite of the parts that say the K-3 AF-C is only as good as the K-5 IIs AF-C, when the number of keepers shows a 60% improvement.

11-13-2013, 06:06 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It seems to be fixed thanks to the new metering system, which was causing the issue before. That's why it couldn't be addressed through firmware on the K-5.
OMG! Another reason to upgrade from previous Pentax bodies to K-3!!!
Thank you so much!
11-13-2013, 06:20 AM   #78
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spot a possible erratum

at the moire section
QuoteQuote:
The K-3 gives the user an unprecedented level of control over moire. You can leave the AA filter simulator on for maximum sharpness or use the AA filter simulator to minimize moire
shouldn't it be
QuoteQuote:
You can leave the AA filter simulator off for maximum sharpness
11-13-2013, 07:03 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I agree with the others. We need a re-do on the AF section using comparable APS-C bodies. That would be, D7100, D300S, 7D and/or 70D. The third-party Sigma 70-200 would work, or each manufacturer's 300mm f/4.

And a rewrite of the parts that say the K-3 AF-C is only as good as the K-5 IIs AF-C, when the number of keepers shows a 60% improvement.
He shot 25% more photos with the K-3 to get those 58% more keepers. Keeper rate went from 53% (K-5IIs) to 67% (K-3)... a 26% improvement with that lens under those conditions.

11-13-2013, 07:22 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
He shot 25% more photos with the K-3 to get those 58% more keepers. Keeper rate went from 53% (K-5IIs) to 67% (K-3)... a 26% improvement with that lens under those conditions.
I don't care about % keeper rate. When an eagle flies by, I want in-focus shots of the eagle. Percentage of hits is a mildly interesting statistic. The K-3 will give me more keepers, that's what I need.

In the FNAC Labs tests, number or hits is where the D300S and 7D spanked the K-5. Time to initially acquire the target was similar, but the others had significantly more hits on the approaching target than the K-5 could manage.
11-13-2013, 08:37 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
The tick on the k5 is not the camera but dodgy 'PC' codecs that can't handle the slightly unusual AV interlacing used in the Mjpeg (there is no click in the stream).

Use a better Codec or recode using handbrake etc and the 'click' will vanish.

As the K3 uses mp4 (h264) it will be using a different codec on your PC to decode so is unlikely to have the same issue with your PC.
Thank you Mr.Waldram. It is good to know that its a codec issue and not a K3 or a K5 problem.
11-13-2013, 09:03 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
We need a re-do on the AF section using comparable APS-C bodies. That would be, D7100, D300S, 7D and/or 70D. The third-party Sigma 70-200 would work, or each manufacturer's 300mm f/4.

And a rewrite of the parts that say the K-3 AF-C is only as good as the K-5 IIs AF-C, when the number of keepers shows a 60% improvement.
As I said, to be taken serious outside the Pentax community, any test would have to be done with every vendor's best powerhouse AF lens. I.e. 70-200/2.8G for Nikon. Otherwise, the test will have no impact whatsoever on undecided buyers.

Imagine a Nikon forum doing a test D7100 vs. K-3 where K-3 is paired to a Tamron 55-200 lens. Nobody would care about the reasoning, but just dismiss the test because the Pentax was ill-paired.

Pair K-3 with the Sigma 70-200 if that's the fastest AF lens (is it true btw?). Maybe include the result of D7100/Sigma. But do not skip the crucial Nikon/Nikon reference test.

Wrt #keepers and K-3 vs. K-5.

As I said, we don't know nothing from Adam's test here. Because of K-3's higher burst, all the extra keepers could be from the slow changing end of the test which does not challenge the AF.C. Maybe, the K-3 just hesitated more at the fast end. The kind of statistics based on #keepers is meaningless. I tried to explain why higher up in the thread.

Our best guide would still be Adam's subjective impression if K-3 tracks better or not than K-5. And this is what he shared in the review.
11-13-2013, 10:38 AM   #83
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I would still like to see a test of competitive APS-C bodies with their native 300mm f/4. Similar prices, similar technology.

11-13-2013, 11:11 AM   #84
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A very interesting review ! Thanks a lot !
11-13-2013, 12:23 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
As I said, to be taken serious outside the Pentax community, any test would have to be done with every vendor's best powerhouse AF lens. I.e. 70-200/2.8G for Nikon. Otherwise, the test will have no impact whatsoever on undecided buyers.

Imagine a Nikon forum doing a test D7100 vs. K-3 where K-3 is paired to a Tamron 55-200 lens. Nobody would care about the reasoning, but just dismiss the test because the Pentax was ill-paired.

Pair K-3 with the Sigma 70-200 if that's the fastest AF lens (is it true btw?). Maybe include the result of D7100/Sigma. But do not skip the crucial Nikon/Nikon reference test.

Wrt #keepers and K-3 vs. K-5.

As I said, we don't know nothing from Adam's test here. Because of K-3's higher burst, all the extra keepers could be from the slow changing end of the test which does not challenge the AF.C. Maybe, the K-3 just hesitated more at the fast end. The kind of statistics based on #keepers is meaningless. I tried to explain why higher up in the thread.

Our best guide would still be Adam's subjective impression if K-3 tracks better or not than K-5. And this is what he shared in the review.
The test you described would be of interest to compare auto focus of Camera A equipped with Lens B versus versus Camera X equipped with Lens Y; using this technique you could even compare auto focus speed of Camera A equipped with Len B versus Camera A equipped with Lens Y. Seeing how total AF performance changes with lenses may be of keen interest.
I am interested in how good the K-3 auto focus system has improved. The only way to do this is to eliminate the variables, such as different lenses, so that you can conclude how the auto focus of one camera compares to another.

I agree that if I were looking to evaluate cameras equipped with a lens, lets say 500mm for action photography then I would be interested in various cameras being tested with 500 mm lenses so I can make a comparison of that combination.

Many Pentax users who read the forum have interest in knowing how the new K-3 auto focus performs in comparison to other Pentax cameras and to competitive cameras. To make those assessments the lens has to be the same. If you also want to compare the Pentax K-3 auto focus performance to the auto focus performance of say a Nikon or Canon camera, then the lens would also need to be the same.

For people looking to buy a new system to shoot 300mm, 400mm or 500mm with the premium on auto focus performance for a particular lens, then the test you propose makes sense. It may be that for 500mm a Canon solution provides better auto focus performance than a Nikon solution while at 400mm the roles are reversed. Your test would be useful to make that evaluation.

However with that same test, where cameras use different lenses of the same focal length, the person doing the test or interpreting the results would not be able to say the Canon is better than the Nikon or vica versa because ... a common lens was not used.

My personal interest is knowing how the auto focus of the K-3 improved relative to other Pentax cameras, which the Forum review addresses with keeper rate versus total keepers. A secondary interest is to see how the Pentax K-3 measures up to competitive cameras from Nikon and Canon and perhaps how the K-3 stacks up against higher performance and higher priced solutions, such as the Nikon D610. To compare the camera performance you need to eliminate the lens variably or you are back to comparing Camera A with Lens B versus Camera C with Lens D versus Camera X with Lens Y.

So perhaps there are just people with different interests. My interest is how the K-3 camera auto focus performs. I acknowledge that the current Pentax lens line up from Pentax and third parties has room for improvement in pure speed of focus and other areas.

Last edited by RockvilleBob; 11-13-2013 at 12:34 PM.
11-13-2013, 12:51 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by souless Quote
spot a possible erratum

at the moire section
shouldn't it be
Thanks, fixed the typo!

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11-13-2013, 02:06 PM   #87
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AF tests with 3rd party lenses would open the door to vendor compatibility issues. If Sigma or Tamron has an AF glitch when communicating with a specific camera brand it would cause a camera to be rated unfairly low. Most camera manufacturers have respectable 300mm/f4 and 200mm/f2.8 lenses. Either one might make a good baseline for testing AF performance.

I'm okay with AF tests being partially subjective. If AF tests used software to measure sharpness, that would encourage manufacturers to apply ridiculous levels of sharpening within camera firmware.
11-13-2013, 02:17 PM   #88
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I wonder why the FA 43/1.9 Limited isn't one of the recommended lenses?
11-13-2013, 03:17 PM   #89
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Thanks for the thorough and interesting review. I hope that it was not rushed too much just to meet a deadline. That there is no focus peaking during video is one error. The AF test comparison while interesting, is not a fair test as the faster lens on the D610 will provide an advantage. In spite of this, while the Pentax K3 AF is the best Pentax yet, it is likely still not up to D300s or 7D standards, with the lack of fast focussing lenses a major limitation. Keep providing us with timely information.

Dale
11-13-2013, 05:24 PM   #90
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Tracking with AF-C vs AF-A?

Which mode should be used for BIFs and other moving targets?
What's the difference? Was the tracking test done in AF-C or AF-A?
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