K3 manual - What is Ricoh thinking?

Tom S. · 12-08-2013, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

PDFs can go on tablets on phones, so while not easier to read, they are easier to carry than a thick book...

Indeed they can - which is one of the issues I have with Yvon's book. It is a PDF file but password protected, and therefore can't be used on my Nook. The Nook reads PDF's just fine, but when they are password protected, the Nook has no provision for asking/inserting the password.

vonBaloney · 12-08-2013, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by Tom S.

Indeed they can - which is one of the issues I have with Yvon's book. It is a PDF file but password protected, and therefore can't be used on my Nook. The Nook reads PDF's just fine, but when they are password protected, the Nook has no provision for asking/inserting the password.

He would probably send you an unlocked version if you asked him, although I imagine a Nook is still a poor fit for that type of book which I assume how lots of diagrams and pictures...

Tom S. · 12-08-2013, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

He would probably send you an unlocked version if you asked him, although I imagine a Nook is still a poor fit for that type of book which I assume how lots of diagrams and pictures...

I don't know if he would or not. I have his K-5 book, and the size it appears on the screen of my computer looks like it would be a perfect fit on a Nook or Kindle. I've put several PDF's on my Nooks with no issues.

vonBaloney · 12-08-2013, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Tom S.

I don't know if he would or not. I have his K-5 book, and the size it appears on the screen of my computer looks like it would be a perfect fit on a Nook or Kindle. I've put several PDF's on my Nooks with no issues.

One way to find out -- tell him your issue and ask him...

Tom S. · 12-17-2013, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

One way to find out -- tell him your issue and ask him...

Done, waiting for response.

**manishved** · 12-17-2013, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Adam

I think they may be taking advantage of the fact that many users never even open the manual...looks like they're saving lots of paper with this one.

How can shrinking the font size for an electronic document save paper? They can always have 2 versions - one edited for online viewing (with color pictures, hyperlinks, flash animation , etc and one for printing). State of the art electronics but the documentation is still 1970s....

Bob from Aus · 12-17-2013, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by manishved

State of the art electronics but the documentation is still 1970s..

Good point - the other extreme is when it looks like legos instructions.

You might just be the person who can design a modern electronic manual that doesn't look like those useless online help/user manuals. I agree it needs a big break through.

tim60 · 12-18-2013, 03:35 AM

Seems like the classic reference manual problem which is the bane of the digital everything world. Manual writers write a reference manual which names each feature and what each thing is.

What is left out is two really important issues:
1. Why some of these features are useful - good for people who are new into using the product.
2. The sequence of steps required for doing some of the complicated actions. In software engineering, this would just be a translation of the design tool/step of the use case diagram into natural language as the instruction for using the same feature. So the ideas actually should exist in documented form in the factory.

An example of the latter I complained about here a couple of years back was the lack of straightforward how to do the green button function using the AE-L button on a K100DS.

**ebooks4pentax** · 12-18-2013, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

Indeed they can - which is one of the issues I have with Yvon's book. It is a PDF file but password protected, and therefore can't be used on my Nook. The Nook reads PDF's just fine, but when they are password protected, the Nook has no provision for asking/inserting the password.

The e-books are no longer password protected. They are only protected against modifying them.

Tom S. · 12-18-2013, 03:17 PM

Yvon replied that he stopped password protecting the files so they should work on any electronic device that will read PDF files, which is great. Hope his K-3 book is released soon.

As for the original Pentax user's manual, I suspect it was done to reduce the cost of putting the manual together than the cost of printing. Lots of things now ship with no manual, just a simple quick start guide, with a reference to a larger online manual, should the user need/desire one. I would have been fine with that approach if Pentax had taken it. I love electronic manuals.

**monochrome** · 12-18-2013, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

I love electronic manuals.

Until quite recently I preferred to sit in a chair and read the paper manual front to back.

Now I have a tablet. I prefer to sit in a chair and read the electronic manual front to back.

Gray · 12-18-2013, 10:45 PM

I have all the electronic gadgets, but nothing beats paper. Ricoh are just being cheap by providing such a crap manual for the K3. It's such a stellar camera and doesn't deserve to be cheapened by skimping on the manual.

**Schraubstock** · 12-18-2013, 11:15 PM - **1 Like**

Hi

A lot, if not all, manuals/instruction booklets are written in such a way which reflects the level of knowledge by its author; Often full of jargon and acronyms that make a lot of sense to them or a colleague in the department who at least has the same if not superior knowledge of the matter.

People who write this gobbledegook should go out in the street, grab an unsuspecting person and ask them what they make of their writing and then take note of the blank look in their eyes as well es the question that are uttered.

Then sit down and re-write.

P.S.
And don't you love when you are instructed to do this:

Use switch "A14" (which is clearly marked "On-Off" by the way) as follows:
"Turn this switch to the off position to activate RCGF function and on to turn it on again."

Of course the author knows that RCGF stands for "Reverse Cycle Garbage Function" but you don't.
And if you don't know what RCGF is, no problem, at least you now know it can be turned on and off.

Greetings

Unregistered User · 12-19-2013, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by Schraubstock

Of course the author knows that RCGF stands for "Reverse Cycle Garbage Function" but you don't.
And if you don't know what RCGF is, no problem, at least you now know it can be turned on and off.

Greetings

This is EXACTLY my point when it comes to useless manuals. Sonys manuals are full off this really insightful nonsense and it makes me not want to buy a Sony product anymore. Now the Pentax manual is the same...

Thanks for putting words on my frustration!

**ebooks4pentax** · 12-19-2013, 08:33 PM

Rest assured that all of my e-books are written in an easy-to-understand and non-technical way. The only few complaints I received over the years were from Pro-Photographers and Electronic Engineers. They thought my e-books were too simple. Can't please everyone! You can download a sample of all my e-books here Ebooks4cameras

The e-book for the K-3 will be my biggest e-book thus far, somewhere between 300 and 400 pages. You are absolutely correct when you say that Ricoh/Pentax produced the smallest manual ever, for their best and most complicated DSLR ever.

12-18-2013, 11:15 PM - 1 Like	#58
Schraubstock Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,386	Hi A lot, if not all, manuals/instruction booklets are written in such a way which reflects the level of knowledge by its author; Often full of jargon and acronyms that make a lot of sense to them or a colleague in the department who at least has the same if not superior knowledge of the matter. People who write this gobbledegook should go out in the street, grab an unsuspecting person and ask them what they make of their writing and then take note of the blank look in their eyes as well es the question that are uttered. Then sit down and re-write. P.S. And don't you love when you are instructed to do this: Use switch "A14" (which is clearly marked "On-Off" by the way) as follows: "Turn this switch to the off position to activate RCGF function and on to turn it on again." Of course the author knows that RCGF stands for "Reverse Cycle Garbage Function" but you don't. And if you don't know what RCGF is, no problem, at least you now know it can be turned on and off. Greetings Last edited by Schraubstock; 12-18-2013 at 11:32 PM. Reason: Add text

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12-08-2013, 11:20 AM	#46
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by vonBaloney PDFs can go on tablets on phones, so while not easier to read, they are easier to carry than a thick book... Indeed they can - which is one of the issues I have with Yvon's book. It is a PDF file but password protected, and therefore can't be used on my Nook. The Nook reads PDF's just fine, but when they are password protected, the Nook has no provision for asking/inserting the password.

12-08-2013, 11:25 AM	#47
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by Tom S. Indeed they can - which is one of the issues I have with Yvon's book. It is a PDF file but password protected, and therefore can't be used on my Nook. The Nook reads PDF's just fine, but when they are password protected, the Nook has no provision for asking/inserting the password. He would probably send you an unlocked version if you asked him, although I imagine a Nook is still a poor fit for that type of book which I assume how lots of diagrams and pictures...

12-08-2013, 11:44 AM	#48
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by vonBaloney He would probably send you an unlocked version if you asked him, although I imagine a Nook is still a poor fit for that type of book which I assume how lots of diagrams and pictures... I don't know if he would or not. I have his K-5 book, and the size it appears on the screen of my computer looks like it would be a perfect fit on a Nook or Kindle. I've put several PDF's on my Nooks with no issues.

12-08-2013, 11:50 AM	#49
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by Tom S. I don't know if he would or not. I have his K-5 book, and the size it appears on the screen of my computer looks like it would be a perfect fit on a Nook or Kindle. I've put several PDF's on my Nooks with no issues. One way to find out -- tell him your issue and ask him...

12-17-2013, 08:15 PM	#50
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by vonBaloney One way to find out -- tell him your issue and ask him... Done, waiting for response.

12-17-2013, 08:19 PM	#51
manishved Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: N. Calif Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,651	Originally posted by Adam I think they may be taking advantage of the fact that many users never even open the manual...looks like they're saving lots of paper with this one. How can shrinking the font size for an electronic document save paper? They can always have 2 versions - one edited for online viewing (with color pictures, hyperlinks, flash animation , etc and one for printing). State of the art electronics but the documentation is still 1970s....

12-17-2013, 08:41 PM	#52
Bob from Aus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,094 Original Poster	Originally posted by manishved State of the art electronics but the documentation is still 1970s.. Good point - the other extreme is when it looks like legos instructions. You might just be the person who can design a modern electronic manual that doesn't look like those useless online help/user manuals. I agree it needs a big break through.

12-18-2013, 03:35 AM	#53
tim60 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 8,742	Seems like the classic reference manual problem which is the bane of the digital everything world. Manual writers write a reference manual which names each feature and what each thing is. What is left out is two really important issues: 1. Why some of these features are useful - good for people who are new into using the product. 2. The sequence of steps required for doing some of the complicated actions. In software engineering, this would just be a translation of the design tool/step of the use case diagram into natural language as the instruction for using the same feature. So the ideas actually should exist in documented form in the factory. An example of the latter I complained about here a couple of years back was the lack of straightforward how to do the green button function using the AE-L button on a K100DS.

12-18-2013, 12:45 PM	#54
ebooks4pentax Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 464	Originally posted by Tom S. Indeed they can - which is one of the issues I have with Yvon's book. It is a PDF file but password protected, and therefore can't be used on my Nook. The Nook reads PDF's just fine, but when they are password protected, the Nook has no provision for asking/inserting the password. The e-books are no longer password protected. They are only protected against modifying them.

12-18-2013, 03:17 PM	#55
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Yvon replied that he stopped password protecting the files so they should work on any electronic device that will read PDF files, which is great. Hope his K-3 book is released soon. As for the original Pentax user's manual, I suspect it was done to reduce the cost of putting the manual together than the cost of printing. Lots of things now ship with no manual, just a simple quick start guide, with a reference to a larger online manual, should the user need/desire one. I would have been fine with that approach if Pentax had taken it. I love electronic manuals.

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12-18-2013, 09:06 PM	#56
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Tom S. I love electronic manuals. Until quite recently I preferred to sit in a chair and read the paper manual front to back. Now I have a tablet. I prefer to sit in a chair and read the electronic manual front to back.

12-18-2013, 10:45 PM	#57
Gray Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Cape Town Photos: Gallery Posts: 536	I have all the electronic gadgets, but nothing beats paper. Ricoh are just being cheap by providing such a crap manual for the K3. It's such a stellar camera and doesn't deserve to be cheapened by skimping on the manual.

12-19-2013, 12:11 AM	#59
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by Schraubstock Of course the author knows that RCGF stands for "Reverse Cycle Garbage Function" but you don't. And if you don't know what RCGF is, no problem, at least you now know it can be turned on and off. Greetings This is EXACTLY my point when it comes to useless manuals. Sonys manuals are full off this really insightful nonsense and it makes me not want to buy a Sony product anymore. Now the Pentax manual is the same... Thanks for putting words on my frustration!

12-19-2013, 08:33 PM	#60
ebooks4pentax Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 464	Rest assured that all of my e-books are written in an easy-to-understand and non-technical way. The only few complaints I received over the years were from Pro-Photographers and Electronic Engineers. They thought my e-books were too simple. Can't please everyone! You can download a sample of all my e-books here Ebooks4cameras The e-book for the K-3 will be my biggest e-book thus far, somewhere between 300 and 400 pages. You are absolutely correct when you say that Ricoh/Pentax produced the smallest manual ever, for their best and most complicated DSLR ever.