K-3 delay when using the flash

tabl10s · 07-16-2014, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by kenyee

From what I've read the issue is really a delay between shutter and preflash. So instead of:
shutter button -> preflash blink blink (1/4sec?) -> flash
you get
shutter button -> 1/2 sec delay -> preflash blink blank (1/4sec?) -> flash

The other alternative is to stop using the pTTL crutch and learn how to use your flash in manual or A modes...you might even find you like studio lighting like I do

Upgraded to Firmware.1.10 and took pics with both my Metz(straight ahead and bounce)and the on-board flash. No delay in any mode except with "Red Eye" initiated. Yay!

Paul the Sunman · 07-16-2014, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by tabl10s

Upgraded to Firmware.1.10 and took pics with both my Metz(straight ahead and bounce)and the on-board flash. No delay in any mode except with "Red Eye" initiated. Yay!

Well, this is quite a "three pipe problem" (to quote Sherlock Holmes)! The firmware 1.10 upgrade works for some but not all. I've tried every conceivable (and a few inconceivable) changes to menu settings without effect. I can still easily raise my index finger to the vertical after pressing the shutter release before the frame is taken if in P-TTL (but not in manual flash mode). Curiouser and curiouser (please excuse the mixed literary allusions).

tabl10s · 07-16-2014, 06:51 AM

Maybe to even things out, my lens button will fall off... Hahahaha.

ruggiex · 07-16-2014, 07:27 AM

I'm not entirely sure if mine has flash delay, although it does feel slightly longer than K5. However, I know my K3 sometimes takes extra half second to meter or something before taking a shot even without flash. Something I did not experience with K5. I have yet to figure out what causes it. I know it's not AF because I use back button AF.

GeneV · 07-17-2014, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

Well, this is quite a "three pipe problem" (to quote Sherlock Holmes)! The firmware 1.10 upgrade works for some but not all. I've tried every conceivable (and a few inconceivable) changes to menu settings without effect. I can still easily raise my index finger to the vertical after pressing the shutter release before the frame is taken if in P-TTL (but not in manual flash mode). Curiouser and curiouser (please excuse the mixed literary allusions).

Firmware 1.10 made no difference for me, either. The added delay is also exactly the same whether the AF 540fgz is on the camera or wireless. Are all those seeing an improvement using a different brand of flash, say, Metz?

Paul the Sunman · 07-17-2014, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by GeneV

Firmware 1.10 made no difference for me, either. The added delay is also exactly the same whether the AF 540fgz is on the camera or wireless. Are all those seeing an improvement using a different brand of flash, say, Metz?

Mine is Metz 52 AF-1. I get a delay both with the Metz and the built-in flash.

tabl10s · 07-17-2014, 01:31 PM

My sample may have been made to a higher standard

. My second K-3 will be here shortly. If it hasn't been upgraded to 1.10, I'll do a before/after test and report.

tabl10s · 07-18-2014, 05:58 PM

No delay with upgrade to 1.10 on second K-3(forgot to do the "before" test).

awaldram · 07-19-2014, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by tabl10s

No delay with upgrade to 1.10 on second K-3(forgot to do the "before" test).

Agreed

previous 1.10

Now top

but there is still some delay (bottom) it is improved

GeneV · 07-20-2014, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by awaldram

Agreed

previous 1.10

Now top

but there is still some delay (bottom) it is improved

I think you are on to something. It still subjectively feels like a delay compared to the K5II, but I can no longer catch my finger upright unless redeye reduction is on. BTW, for me, firmware 1.10 made no difference until I switched the internal flash off wireless master. Now, even if I switch it back to wireless, the improvement is still there. Go figure.

At this point, if the flash is happening quickly enough that my finger can't move off the button significantly, it is not getting in the way of very many shots at all.

awaldram · 07-20-2014, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by GeneV

I think you are on to something. It still subjectively feels like a delay compared to the K5II, but I can no longer catch my finger upright unless redeye reduction is on. BTW, for me, firmware 1.10 made no difference until I switched the internal flash off wireless master. Now, even if I switch it back to wireless, the improvement is still there. Go figure.

At this point, if the flash is happening quickly enough that my finger can't move off the button significantly, it is not getting in the way of very many shots at all.

Took my flash out sports shooting yeserday (swimmers fly and breast) just about viable now but the delay is still noticable and has to be considered during the shot.

As compared with unusable before this is a good improvement for me.

Lage · 07-20-2014, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by awaldram

Agreed

previous 1.10

Now top

but there is still some delay (bottom) it is improved

I may be slow, but I don't get what each pic is showing. Can you please clarify?

Paul the Sunman · 07-20-2014, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by GeneV

I think you are on to something. It still subjectively feels like a delay compared to the K5II, but I can no longer catch my finger upright unless redeye reduction is on. BTW, for me, firmware 1.10 made no difference until I switched the internal flash off wireless master. Now, even if I switch it back to wireless, the improvement is still there. Go figure.

At this point, if the flash is happening quickly enough that my finger can't move off the button significantly, it is not getting in the way of very many shots at all.

Can you please explain the thing about wireless master? Wireless master and controller modes are for when you want to trigger an off-camera flash. How is that relevant to the delay problem? I normally shoot in the basic "Flash On" mode (the first in the flash menu), rather than "Wireless (Controller)" or "Wireless (Master)", so I don't understand what you have done. [By the way, I am using P exposure mode.]

awaldram · 07-21-2014, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by Lage

I may be slow, but I don't get what each pic is showing. Can you please clarify?

If the flash fired with no delay all images would show my finger on the shutter button

what the images show are

1 casual shooting finger is off the button therfore delay circa .5 secs pre 1.10
2 casual shooting finger is still pressed on button therfore delay < .5 post 1.10
3 pre tensioned to remove finger image shows finger off button therfore some delay still exist , given my best learn't reaction times probably around .2 sec post 1.10

GeneV · 07-21-2014, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

Can you please explain the thing about wireless master? Wireless master and controller modes are for when you want to trigger an off-camera flash. How is that relevant to the delay problem? I normally shoot in the basic "Flash On" mode (the first in the flash menu), rather than "Wireless (Controller)" or "Wireless (Master)", so I don't understand what you have done. [By the way, I am using P exposure mode.]

I can't explain it, but I can't explain the reason for the delay anyway.

I use wireless P-TTL a good deal--more than I use a shoe-mounted flash. I usually leave the flash selector in the wireless master position, because in past Pentax cameras, it has made no difference in using the onboard flash by itself, and the controller is always ready if I decide to use a slave. I was trying to see if having the flash in controller mode was contributing to the delay in the built-in flash, i.e. there was a pause while it looked for a slave that wasn't there. I switched the flash to "on." It seemed to have helped.

07-17-2014, 01:31 PM	#172
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424	My sample may have been made to a higher standard. My second K-3 will be here shortly. If it hasn't been upgraded to 1.10, I'll do a before/after test and report.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Need to disable in-built flash when using off camera flash	Molly	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	18	03-27-2013 04:12 AM
Adobe or Embedded when using the k5 in Lightroom 3.6 ?	London Rob	Digital Processing, Software, and Printing	2	11-21-2012 12:58 PM
How does the camera meter when using an external flash?	jpeldrid	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	7	12-04-2011 09:27 AM
k-7 + 3 sec delay = no flash slave. Anyone know why?	Nass	Pentax DSLR Discussion	5	03-16-2010 09:57 AM
Closed eyes when using the flash	xfraser	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	5	01-31-2007 12:52 PM

07-16-2014, 02:15 AM	#166
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424	Originally posted by kenyee From what I've read the issue is really a delay between shutter and preflash. So instead of: shutter button -> preflash blink blink (1/4sec?) -> flash you get shutter button -> 1/2 sec delay -> preflash blink blank (1/4sec?) -> flash The other alternative is to stop using the pTTL crutch and learn how to use your flash in manual or A modes...you might even find you like studio lighting like I do Upgraded to Firmware.1.10 and took pics with both my Metz(straight ahead and bounce)and the on-board flash. No delay in any mode except with "Red Eye" initiated. Yay!

07-16-2014, 03:15 AM	#167
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	Originally posted by tabl10s Upgraded to Firmware.1.10 and took pics with both my Metz(straight ahead and bounce)and the on-board flash. No delay in any mode except with "Red Eye" initiated. Yay! Well, this is quite a "three pipe problem" (to quote Sherlock Holmes)! The firmware 1.10 upgrade works for some but not all. I've tried every conceivable (and a few inconceivable) changes to menu settings without effect. I can still easily raise my index finger to the vertical after pressing the shutter release before the frame is taken if in P-TTL (but not in manual flash mode). Curiouser and curiouser (please excuse the mixed literary allusions).

07-16-2014, 06:51 AM	#168
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424	Maybe to even things out, my lens button will fall off... Hahahaha.

07-16-2014, 07:27 AM	#169
ruggiex Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: East Bay Area Photos: Gallery Posts: 811	I'm not entirely sure if mine has flash delay, although it does feel slightly longer than K5. However, I know my K3 sometimes takes extra half second to meter or something before taking a shot even without flash. Something I did not experience with K5. I have yet to figure out what causes it. I know it's not AF because I use back button AF.

07-17-2014, 05:02 AM	#170
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman Well, this is quite a "three pipe problem" (to quote Sherlock Holmes)! The firmware 1.10 upgrade works for some but not all. I've tried every conceivable (and a few inconceivable) changes to menu settings without effect. I can still easily raise my index finger to the vertical after pressing the shutter release before the frame is taken if in P-TTL (but not in manual flash mode). Curiouser and curiouser (please excuse the mixed literary allusions). Firmware 1.10 made no difference for me, either. The added delay is also exactly the same whether the AF 540fgz is on the camera or wireless. Are all those seeing an improvement using a different brand of flash, say, Metz?

07-17-2014, 07:35 AM	#171
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	Originally posted by GeneV Firmware 1.10 made no difference for me, either. The added delay is also exactly the same whether the AF 540fgz is on the camera or wireless. Are all those seeing an improvement using a different brand of flash, say, Metz? Mine is Metz 52 AF-1. I get a delay both with the Metz and the built-in flash.

07-18-2014, 05:58 PM	#173
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424	No delay with upgrade to 1.10 on second K-3(forgot to do the "before" test).

07-20-2014, 06:32 AM	#175
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by awaldram Agreed previous 1.10 Now top but there is still some delay (bottom) it is improved I think you are on to something. It still subjectively feels like a delay compared to the K5II, but I can no longer catch my finger upright unless redeye reduction is on. BTW, for me, firmware 1.10 made no difference until I switched the internal flash off wireless master. Now, even if I switch it back to wireless, the improvement is still there. Go figure. At this point, if the flash is happening quickly enough that my finger can't move off the button significantly, it is not getting in the way of very many shots at all.

07-20-2014, 11:39 AM	#176
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Originally posted by GeneV I think you are on to something. It still subjectively feels like a delay compared to the K5II, but I can no longer catch my finger upright unless redeye reduction is on. BTW, for me, firmware 1.10 made no difference until I switched the internal flash off wireless master. Now, even if I switch it back to wireless, the improvement is still there. Go figure. At this point, if the flash is happening quickly enough that my finger can't move off the button significantly, it is not getting in the way of very many shots at all. Took my flash out sports shooting yeserday (swimmers fly and breast) just about viable now but the delay is still noticable and has to be considered during the shot. As compared with unusable before this is a good improvement for me.

07-20-2014, 01:04 PM	#177
Lage Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden Posts: 63	Originally posted by awaldram Agreed previous 1.10 Now top but there is still some delay (bottom) it is improved I may be slow, but I don't get what each pic is showing. Can you please clarify?

07-20-2014, 01:07 PM	#178
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	Originally posted by GeneV I think you are on to something. It still subjectively feels like a delay compared to the K5II, but I can no longer catch my finger upright unless redeye reduction is on. BTW, for me, firmware 1.10 made no difference until I switched the internal flash off wireless master. Now, even if I switch it back to wireless, the improvement is still there. Go figure. At this point, if the flash is happening quickly enough that my finger can't move off the button significantly, it is not getting in the way of very many shots at all. Can you please explain the thing about wireless master? Wireless master and controller modes are for when you want to trigger an off-camera flash. How is that relevant to the delay problem? I normally shoot in the basic "Flash On" mode (the first in the flash menu), rather than "Wireless (Controller)" or "Wireless (Master)", so I don't understand what you have done. [By the way, I am using P exposure mode.]

07-21-2014, 07:39 AM	#179
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Originally posted by Lage I may be slow, but I don't get what each pic is showing. Can you please clarify? If the flash fired with no delay all images would show my finger on the shutter button what the images show are 1 casual shooting finger is off the button therfore delay circa .5 secs pre 1.10 2 casual shooting finger is still pressed on button therfore delay < .5 post 1.10 3 pre tensioned to remove finger image shows finger off button therfore some delay still exist , given my best learn't reaction times probably around .2 sec post 1.10

07-21-2014, 02:38 PM	#180
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman Can you please explain the thing about wireless master? Wireless master and controller modes are for when you want to trigger an off-camera flash. How is that relevant to the delay problem? I normally shoot in the basic "Flash On" mode (the first in the flash menu), rather than "Wireless (Controller)" or "Wireless (Master)", so I don't understand what you have done. [By the way, I am using P exposure mode.] I can't explain it, but I can't explain the reason for the delay anyway. I use wireless P-TTL a good deal--more than I use a shoe-mounted flash. I usually leave the flash selector in the wireless master position, because in past Pentax cameras, it has made no difference in using the onboard flash by itself, and the controller is always ready if I decide to use a slave. I was trying to see if having the flash in controller mode was contributing to the delay in the built-in flash, i.e. there was a pause while it looked for a slave that wasn't there. I switched the flash to "on." It seemed to have helped.