K-3 delay when using the flash

Paul the Sunman · 10-01-2014, 07:47 PM - **1 Like**

It's pretty bad for me with the Metz 52 AF-1. I can easily move my trigger finger to the upright position after pushing the shutter release but before the photo is taken. It seems the same with the built-in flash though, so I'm surprised that you find a flash dependence.

**7samurai** · 10-01-2014, 07:57 PM

It's pretty bad with a Sigma 610 Super and my 530 Super. If it use it in manual mode, it works perfectly.

Paul the Sunman · 10-01-2014, 08:09 PM

Yeh, manual mode is fine. P-TTL is the problem. I really think it's bad that Ricoh hasn't addressed this issue, but I still love the K3.

**monochrome** · 10-01-2014, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

Yeh, manual mode is fine. P-TTL is the problem. I really think it's bad that Ricoh hasn't addressed this issue, but I still love the K3.

+1

Onboard flash and 360FGZ. Noticeable lag, also allows hand shake / motion blur.

Unregistered User · 10-02-2014, 01:12 AM

And you are using firmware 1.11?

Frank the Matt · 10-02-2014, 02:17 AM

Firmware 1.11 no change

Ricoh Pentax Switzerland does not know the problem and they told me to call Ricoh Germany...

I wait of Pentax Germany...

News come later..

Ricoh Pentax Germany does not know the problem and they told me to call Ricoh Switzerland

Frank the Matt · 10-02-2014, 08:06 AM

I wrote an email to Ricoh Europe ... Wait for News....

Cooba · 10-08-2014, 01:17 AM - **1 Like**

Hi
I send camera to France service and they send me it back with note that
camere is ok. Everything is agreeable with standards.
They clean it and instal software again.

My complaint was unfounded

I still got the lag...

skyer · 10-08-2014, 04:11 AM

With Metz 58 AF-2 is a very noticable lag.

Frank the Matt · 10-12-2014, 12:09 PM - **2 Likes**

It is two weeks since it's raining here, so I decided to spend some time with one of my hobbies ... understand if something is wrong
Here I made some tests to measure and see the delay of the Pentax K-3.
The tests were made with Pentax DFA 100mm WR macro lens, aperture f2.8, ISO set to 100, manual focus, shutter speed to 1/160 of a second (6.25 mil).
A good microphone connected to the K-3 camera and a quadcore computer.
A professional software, to record the audio output from the camera.
The whole time, I calculated the average of 30 shots without flash, and 30 shots with flash.
Using another camera lens, also change the times.
This is a home-made job, and for this reason, consider this test, only indicative.
I believe to be quite reliable, since the differences of 30 shots per test were very minimal, +/- 10 milliseconds.

good vision...

tabl10s · 10-31-2014, 12:27 PM

Still no problem when shooting in Manual, Tamron or any other mode.

ScooterMaxi Jim · 01-02-2015, 12:05 PM - **1 Like**

Thanks, Frank, for posting the audio graphic. That really confirms what has been observed.

To further confirm that the K-3 has something entirely different going on with its pTTL dedication, I discovered that the Auto functionality of Vivitar DM module (DM/P-TTL - as in original Pentax TTL dating to the days of the LX, not pTTL) does not work properly on the K-3. Flash output in Auto is significantly dampened in two of the three Auto modes. This old Vivitar module works flawlessly with the LX and *istD as you would expect - using the TTL functionality and working fine in Auto; also the Auto function still works correctly on the K20D, K-01 and K-30. Those with module-type Vivitar flashes (as well as Sunpak, Promaster, etc. I suspect) will likely need to search out universal (i.e. standard) single contact modules for use on the K-3.

By the way, kudos to KEH for making good on a mislabel situation. I got a very deal on a BGN Sunpak 444D listed as "w// req. module." When I called in, I asked if they were sure that would include a standard module - the hard to find STD-1D. They indicated, yes, but when it arrived today - no module. I mentioned that the only logical solution based on their current stock would be to send out the BGN 383 Super which is essentially the same flash - but not in module form, with a standard base. Even though that unit was priced $32 higher, they're sending it out free as a goodwill gesture. Dealing with KEH is very easy, even if you get an occasional problem with a listing.

jm_mac · 01-04-2015, 07:23 PM

I have noticed the flash delay problem recently with my Metz AF 52-1 and my K3. I thought I would post my thoughts here since the threads seem to "live" longer here than on dpreview.

I have dual systems (Nikon and Pentax), and was able to test the D7000 + Sigma 18-50mm + SB-600 vs. K3 + Sigma 17-50mm + Metz 52. Subjectively, there is no delay when taking TTL, aperture priority, jpeg photos with the Nikon setup; on the other hand, there is a very noticeable delay when taking the photos with the Pentax setup. After seeing the post on dpreview that points out imaging-resource's measurements of the D71000 vs. K3 (they are essentially the same in their testing at about 300ms), I thought I would measure this myself.

I don't have access to a scope or other test equipment (although I am an electrical engineer, I don't have a home lab); I test shutter delays using an internet stopwatch; I can calculate the shutter press - to- capture delay by looking at the time on the photos. Although not perfect, it is relatively consistent.

I measured 499.6ms for the Pentax delay vs. 353.4ms for the Nikon delay. Although 146.2ms may not seem like much, it is noticeable, especially compared to the K3's essentially instantaneous response in pretty much all other situations.

Looking forward to a fix. For me, this isn't a deal breaker, although it is annoying. I'm just glad that bounce flash now works well. :-)

jm_mac

**hjoseph7** · 01-04-2015, 07:38 PM

My K-5 II does this when the Red-Eye feature is turned on. It can drive you nuts if you don't know what's going on.

jm_mac · 01-04-2015, 07:55 PM

hjoseph7 - good point, I do remember that from the K5 days. I just checked, and red eye is not enabled in the K3, and the Metz 52-1 doesn't have a setting for this.

10-02-2014, 01:12 AM	#200
Unregistered User Guest	And you are using firmware 1.11? Last edited by Unregistered User; 10-02-2014 at 01:31 AM.

10-02-2014, 02:17 AM	#201
Frank the Matt Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 51	Firmware 1.11 no change Ricoh Pentax Switzerland does not know the problem and they told me to call Ricoh Germany... I wait of Pentax Germany... News come later.. Ricoh Pentax Germany does not know the problem and they told me to call Ricoh Switzerland Last edited by Frank the Matt; 10-12-2014 at 11:25 AM.

10-12-2014, 12:09 PM - 2 Likes	#205
Frank the Matt Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 51	It is two weeks since it's raining here, so I decided to spend some time with one of my hobbies ... understand if something is wrong Here I made some tests to measure and see the delay of the Pentax K-3. The tests were made with Pentax DFA 100mm WR macro lens, aperture f2.8, ISO set to 100, manual focus, shutter speed to 1/160 of a second (6.25 mil). A good microphone connected to the K-3 camera and a quadcore computer. A professional software, to record the audio output from the camera. The whole time, I calculated the average of 30 shots without flash, and 30 shots with flash. Using another camera lens, also change the times. This is a home-made job, and for this reason, consider this test, only indicative. I believe to be quite reliable, since the differences of 30 shots per test were very minimal, +/- 10 milliseconds. good vision... Attached Images Last edited by Frank the Matt; 10-13-2014 at 04:14 AM.

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10-01-2014, 07:47 PM - 1 Like	#196
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	It's pretty bad for me with the Metz 52 AF-1. I can easily move my trigger finger to the upright position after pushing the shutter release but before the photo is taken. It seems the same with the built-in flash though, so I'm surprised that you find a flash dependence.

10-01-2014, 07:57 PM	#197
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474	It's pretty bad with a Sigma 610 Super and my 530 Super. If it use it in manual mode, it works perfectly.

10-01-2014, 08:09 PM	#198
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	Yeh, manual mode is fine. P-TTL is the problem. I really think it's bad that Ricoh hasn't addressed this issue, but I still love the K3.

10-01-2014, 08:12 PM	#199
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman Yeh, manual mode is fine. P-TTL is the problem. I really think it's bad that Ricoh hasn't addressed this issue, but I still love the K3. +1 Onboard flash and 360FGZ. Noticeable lag, also allows hand shake / motion blur.

10-02-2014, 08:06 AM	#202
Frank the Matt Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 51	I wrote an email to Ricoh Europe ... Wait for News....

10-08-2014, 01:17 AM - 1 Like	#203
Cooba New Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 1	Hi I send camera to France service and they send me it back with note that camere is ok. Everything is agreeable with standards. They clean it and instal software again. My complaint was unfounded I still got the lag...

10-08-2014, 04:11 AM	#204
skyer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Orel, Russia Posts: 251	With Metz 58 AF-2 is a very noticable lag.

10-31-2014, 12:27 PM	#206
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424	Still no problem when shooting in Manual, Tamron or any other mode.

01-02-2015, 12:05 PM - 1 Like	#207
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	Thanks, Frank, for posting the audio graphic. That really confirms what has been observed. To further confirm that the K-3 has something entirely different going on with its pTTL dedication, I discovered that the Auto functionality of Vivitar DM module (DM/P-TTL - as in original Pentax TTL dating to the days of the LX, not pTTL) does not work properly on the K-3. Flash output in Auto is significantly dampened in two of the three Auto modes. This old Vivitar module works flawlessly with the LX and *istD as you would expect - using the TTL functionality and working fine in Auto; also the Auto function still works correctly on the K20D, K-01 and K-30. Those with module-type Vivitar flashes (as well as Sunpak, Promaster, etc. I suspect) will likely need to search out universal (i.e. standard) single contact modules for use on the K-3. By the way, kudos to KEH for making good on a mislabel situation. I got a very deal on a BGN Sunpak 444D listed as "w// req. module." When I called in, I asked if they were sure that would include a standard module - the hard to find STD-1D. They indicated, yes, but when it arrived today - no module. I mentioned that the only logical solution based on their current stock would be to send out the BGN 383 Super which is essentially the same flash - but not in module form, with a standard base. Even though that unit was priced $32 higher, they're sending it out free as a goodwill gesture. Dealing with KEH is very easy, even if you get an occasional problem with a listing.

01-04-2015, 07:23 PM	#208
jm_mac New Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 18	I have noticed the flash delay problem recently with my Metz AF 52-1 and my K3. I thought I would post my thoughts here since the threads seem to "live" longer here than on dpreview. I have dual systems (Nikon and Pentax), and was able to test the D7000 + Sigma 18-50mm + SB-600 vs. K3 + Sigma 17-50mm + Metz 52. Subjectively, there is no delay when taking TTL, aperture priority, jpeg photos with the Nikon setup; on the other hand, there is a very noticeable delay when taking the photos with the Pentax setup. After seeing the post on dpreview that points out imaging-resource's measurements of the D71000 vs. K3 (they are essentially the same in their testing at about 300ms), I thought I would measure this myself. I don't have access to a scope or other test equipment (although I am an electrical engineer, I don't have a home lab); I test shutter delays using an internet stopwatch; I can calculate the shutter press - to- capture delay by looking at the time on the photos. Although not perfect, it is relatively consistent. I measured 499.6ms for the Pentax delay vs. 353.4ms for the Nikon delay. Although 146.2ms may not seem like much, it is noticeable, especially compared to the K3's essentially instantaneous response in pretty much all other situations. Looking forward to a fix. For me, this isn't a deal breaker, although it is annoying. I'm just glad that bounce flash now works well. :-) jm_mac

01-04-2015, 07:38 PM	#209
hjoseph7 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,047	My K-5 II does this when the Red-Eye feature is turned on. It can drive you nuts if you don't know what's going on.

01-04-2015, 07:55 PM	#210
jm_mac New Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 18	hjoseph7 - good point, I do remember that from the K5 days. I just checked, and red eye is not enabled in the K3, and the Metz 52-1 doesn't have a setting for this.