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05-09-2016, 09:34 AM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by souless Quote
sorry to dig this grave!
A little favor to ask for the people who got K-1
Could you please kindly confirm the P-TTL delay gotten fixed or at least shorten or still the same?
Much appreciated!!
I confirmed it in the K-1 forum. It is effectively fixed.

05-09-2016, 02:08 PM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by souless Quote
sorry to dig this grave!
A little favor to ask for the people who got K-1
Could you please kindly confirm the P-TTL delay gotten fixed or at least shorten or still the same?
Much appreciated!!
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/320554-flash-lag-k1.html


Steve
06-27-2017, 02:32 AM   #288
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I am sorry to admit, I have the same problem. In the next three weeks I will shoot a wedding with my K-3. I was thinking about buying second one but now it is not an option. Too bad! With this lag K-3/p-ttl combo is unusable for weddings, things happen too fast. The lag appears before preflash and it is much longer than lag between preflash and flash.

Some of You may not like this, but it is second time that I regret not choosing CaNikon some time ago. In my country used D7100's are in the price range of used K-5 II now, lens are cheaper (more availability). I'd consider this even now, but I'd have no time to sell my gear and buy new one. I also don't have money to buy Nikon now and sell Pentax later. I am writing this because I am pissed off and I want some people be aware what problems they can have choosing Pentax.

That was the whinning, now - looking for workaround.
I have Metz 58-af 1, that has auto mode (no lag). I could use it, but in low light situations and with high ISO I can't adjust flash exposure compensation down. Resulting light is too strong. It starts to happen c.a. near ISO 1000/2000, depending on aperture. Can anything be done with that?
06-27-2017, 03:27 AM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by dr_Fell Quote
Can anything be done with that?
Have you tried using manual flash power control?

You might be surprised how well it works most of the time. With a bit of practice you may also be surprised how quickly one can guesstimate the right power level.

Using flash in manual mode means zero delay. There won't be even the pre-flash-to-flash delay. People won't even have time to blink.

06-27-2017, 03:53 AM   #290
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Consider original 540FGZ and use in A mode

If you get an Pentax 540FGZ Mark I, ie, the original if you use in A (autothyristor mode) there is no pre-flash so it is basically automatic and the exposure is usually spot on as well.

You also benefit from no chance of blinking eyes as no pre-flash is used. A real benefit.

I'd consider this option or go manual, particularly with a fast recycling flash like the Godox Ving 850.

Howie Be
06-27-2017, 04:48 AM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Have you tried using manual flash power control?

You might be surprised how well it works most of the time. With a bit of practice you may also be surprised how quickly one can guesstimate the right power level.

Using flash in manual mode means zero delay. There won't be even the pre-flash-to-flash delay. People won't even have time to blink.
Don't you have to do a lot of complex calculations to use flash in manual mode? I never got it right but that is probably my lack of skill!

Basic question: Does the camera have to be in AV or Manual mode when using manual flash or can you just use the camera in Program mode?
06-27-2017, 07:06 AM   #292
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First, thanks for not giving me a beating for what I wrote. I am just very frustrated.

I have just read every post in this thread, tried some solutions (setting built-in flash to wireless master, resetting every setting) and no luck. I can fully straighten up my finger in time between pressing the shutter button and taking photo...
Now I fully understand, why I made so many missed shots during the dancing event that I did some weeks ago.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Have you tried using manual flash power control?

You might be surprised how well it works most of the time. With a bit of practice you may also be surprised how quickly one can guesstimate the right power level.

Using flash in manual mode means zero delay. There won't be even the pre-flash-to-flash delay. People won't even have time to blink.
I tried using flash in manual mode before, but not in so complex and fast-changing situations as wedding receptions are (and I did it rarely).
I've read some threads on it on different forums and opinions vary... There are wedding photographers, that are recommending using ttl versions of their system (most of them) and those, that use manual flash mode. I have c.a. three weeks to practise, but still, it will be one more thing to remember and not to concentrate on shooting, which can be a bad thing on a wedding. Also, on Mets 58 AF-1 flash power settings are inside menu, not directly available, so it complicates things a bit more.

Now I have two things that I can do. Consider buying K-30/K-50 (and not second K-3) as backup body or check if I can copy with my flash in manual mode.



QuoteOriginally posted by howieb101 Quote
If you get an Pentax 540FGZ Mark I, ie, the original if you use in A (autothyristor mode) there is no pre-flash so it is basically automatic and the exposure is usually spot on as well.

You also benefit from no chance of blinking eyes as no pre-flash is used. A real benefit.

I'd consider this option or go manual, particularly with a fast recycling flash like the Godox Ving 850.

Howie Be

What about "A" mode in my Metz? Why doesn't allow to set up flash compensation below 0 in big aperture/high iso combo? I am guessing that there is small amount of light needed in such conditions and built in thyristor isn't sensitive enough?

Godox Ving 850 looks very promosing, but it seems it offers more for the money when used with Canikon?


As of Your question, Theov39, maybe someone else will be able to answer You, I've not used program mode unfortunately.

Last edited by dr_Fell; 06-27-2017 at 07:13 AM.
06-27-2017, 03:42 PM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by dr_Fell Quote
What about "A" mode in my Metz? Why doesn't allow to set up flash compensation below 0 in big aperture/high iso combo? I am guessing that there is small amount of light needed in such conditions and built in thyristor isn't sensitive enough?
There are limits to the attenuation that the flash can provide. Pentax-brand flashes have a similar limitation. "A" mode should work in total darkness at all supported LV.

Edit: My explanation above is a bit terse. I assumed that "big aperture" means wide aperture and that the flash disallows negative EC when the camera is set up for very low ambient light. "A" mode does not measure the ambient light. It works by measuring subject illumination in real time and shutting the flash off when exposure is proper. My guess is that a combination of high ISO and wide aperture (low LV) requires a short timing for normal shooting distances and is at the ragged edge of the minimum for the flash. A negative EC under those conditions might be outside the flash's design spec and is therefore disallowed. I would test this all out, but I don't own the Metz 58 AF1


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 06-28-2017 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Bad grammar
06-27-2017, 04:19 PM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by Theov39 Quote
Don't you have to do a lot of complex calculations to use flash in manual mode? I never got it right but that is probably my lack of skill!
More likely it is lack of experience with manual flash. Many of us on this site learned photography when all flash was manual and we could not "chimp" the shot. The calculation is not hard (GN/f-number = distance), but historically the manufacturers would provide a table or slide rule type calculator on the back of the flash. The simplest explanation goes something like this:
For a given ISO, aperture, and flash strength (duration) there is a corresponding distance where exposure will be correct.*
Things get more complicated with off-camera flash and multiple flash set-ups. That is where a hand-held flash meter is useful.

QuoteOriginally posted by Theov39 Quote
Basic question: Does the camera have to be in AV or Manual mode when using manual flash or can you just use the camera in Program mode?
Av, M, and X are probably the easiest, but you can use any mode as long as you know or can set the aperture being used and remember that the flash sync will not close at shutter speeds greater than the X-sync speed.

Edit: Forgot to add that one must also know or be in control of the ISO when using manual flash. I almost never use auto-iso, hence the oversight.


Steve

* The guide numbers for calculated manual flash assume indoors use with some reflection from walls and ceiling. When outside, additional exposure may be appropriate.

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-28-2017 at 10:13 AM.
06-27-2017, 07:21 PM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by Theov39 Quote
Don't you have to do a lot of complex calculations to use flash in manual mode?
Not as far as I'm concerned. Steve gave you an easy formula, but AFAIC, you can also just guestimate and tweak.

Note that a speedlight only typically supports 8 full stop power levels. So to get within less of a stop of the right exposure, you'll only ever have to make three attempts (start in the middle, say 1/8, and then go up or down as needed. Instead of just going one stop up or down, you head for the middle of the remaining range again, say 1/2, or 1/32). However, in practice, you'll develop a feel for what level is needed and you'll get to the right level quickly by making a good guess that may need some tweaking.

You can do calculations and/or use a lightmeter but my issue with these approaches is that they always just give you the "technically correct exposure". We all know the scenes (e.g., subject in bright snow, subject at nighttime) where these automatic exposure systems fail. Even if you do spot metering, you may prefer the subject a bit underexposed or overexposed (relative to the "technically correct" exposure). That's why there is flash exposure compensation; the exposure calculated by the camera often needs some correction. Why not then tweak a good guestimate rather than tweaking an automatically obtained result with flash exposure compensation?

I'm not saying automated flash metering has no place, but if the delays are a concern for you, you may have an alternative.

QuoteOriginally posted by Theov39 Quote
Basic question: Does the camera have to be in AV or Manual mode when using manual flash or can you just use the camera in Program mode?
Any mode (such as Av or M) that keeps parameters constant that influence flash exposure (aperture and ISO) is heavily advised. Otherwise, you'll always have to compensate the camera's choice with a respective response to the flash power. Things get more complicated when you need shutter speeds higher than the sync-speed of your camera, but in that range, manual flash photography isn't as hard as it may look at first sight.
06-28-2017, 07:18 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by dr_Fell Quote
I looking for workaround.
I have Metz 58-af 1, that has auto mode (no lag). I could use it, but in low light situations and with high ISO I can't adjust flash exposure compensation down. Resulting light is too strong. It starts to happen c.a. near ISO 1000/2000, depending on aperture. Can anything be done with that?
If you are able to enter ISO and F-stop manually when they flash is in 'A' mode, you could trick the flash into emitting less light by entering a bigger apperture then you are actually using, an other way of 'compensating'...

E.G. when shooting at f8, enter f5.6 and the flash will 'think' the sensor is getting more light, so it will emit less additional light itself...

When the flash gets its settings directly from the camera, you may need to disable that by taping over some of the hotshoe contacts in order to make it 'think' it is mounted on a more primitive camera.
Perhaps someone here can tell you which contacts do what...
You would want the flash sinc contact to work, if possible also the one which operates the af-assist,
but stop the camera giving any extra information to the flash.

I can't experiment with this myself since I don't have the same equipment, but there should be a way

Good luck & happy shooting,
Patrick
06-28-2017, 01:43 PM - 2 Likes   #297
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Just to reiterate, avoid auto ISO since the camera calculates ISO without taking flash into account without seeing the full effect of the main flash and often results in less than optimal exposure settings with high ISO and low flash power. (Including TAv and full Auto)

You mention Auto mode in your Metz 58 AF-1 is too much around ISO 1000/2000. I'd suggest using a lower ISO if possible. It should fix the overpowering flash issue and will give slightly better noise performance. Things in the background will be dark, but that's better than overexposed main subjects.

Last edited by TheOneAndOnlyJH; 07-10-2017 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Fixed poor wording. Auto-ISO does take P-TTL pre-flash into account, but doesn't always choose best ISO.
07-10-2017, 01:42 AM   #298
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@dr_Fell I agree with you (children, not weddings, things happen even faster with kids) and your Pentax evaluation (now I regret I abandoned Can.. and not considered Nik.. due to higher initial purchasing price).

Can you try StoFen OmniBounce on your Metz flash head to reduce your flash output?

-----
QuoteOriginally posted by dr_Fell Quote
With this lag K-3/p-ttl combo is unusable for weddings, things happen too fast. [...] Some of you may not like this, but it is second time that I regret not choosing CaNikon some time ago. [...] I am writing this because I am pissed off and I want some people be aware what problems they can have choosing Pentax.

That was the whinning, now - looking for workaround. I have Metz 58-af 1, that has auto mode (no lag). I could use it, but in low light situations and with high ISO I can't adjust flash exposure compensation down. Resulting light is too strong. It starts to happen c.a. near ISO 1000/2000, depending on aperture. Can anything be done with that?
07-10-2017, 02:55 PM   #299
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In the past I work with K10D, K20D, KX and two K5.. So i upgrade one K5 to K3II and when I have first commercial shooting i noticed shutter lag.. At first I thought about setting up the camera, so I tried new settings on the way, but than I finally switched the flash to A mode and finished shooting. At break I went to the forum and read that Pentax has a bug.
I was very disappointed because I always praised the pentax and was loyal to him, but this is a serious problem. I tried with Metz 58 AF 2, Metz 44, Pentax AF540, results are the same...
THIS IS A BIG SHAME FOR PENTAX!!!!
I PRAY FOR FIRMWARE UPGRADE...PLIZZZZZZZZ
07-10-2017, 03:18 PM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by vipla_s Quote
In the past I work with K10D, K20D, KX and two K5.. So i upgrade one K5 to K3II and when I have first commercial shooting i noticed shutter lag.. At first I thought about setting up the camera, so I tried new settings on the way, but than I finally switched the flash to A mode and finished shooting. At break I went to the forum and read that Pentax has a bug.
I believe that Pentax does not see the delay as a flaw, even though we do. I've had a succession of Pentax bodies as well, K100D Super, K20D, K-5, K-01, now K-3. Of these, only the K-3 has the flash delay. Clearly they know how to design without the flash delay. It is my opinion that Pentax has traded off P-TTL shutter delay for some other parameter, possibly exposure, and they consider this a good tradeoff.

I'm not expecting a firmware update. If they were going to remove the K-3 and K-3 II delay, they would have done so by now. This is a serious mistake AFAIC. I am very worried that the K-3 III will also have this flaw.
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