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11-16-2013, 02:39 AM   #46
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I have the lag issue but it is a short lag, I'd say 1/10th to 2/10th of second at most.Only in P-TTL. I have the impression that when I press the shutter the pre-flash fires but I have to wait a little delay before the shutter releases. Not a very big issue for me, I seldom uses flash. I Wonder if people reporting "no issue" may be are looking for a longer lag - I have read something about a half second delay - and don't realize there is a short lag.

11-16-2013, 03:47 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
I have the lag issue but it is a short lag, I'd say 1/10th to 2/10th of second at most.Only in P-TTL. I have the impression that when I press the shutter the pre-flash fires but I have to wait a little delay before the shutter releases. Not a very big issue for me, I seldom uses flash. I Wonder if people reporting "no issue" may be are looking for a longer lag - I have read something about a half second delay - and don't realize there is a short lag.
Hi Goubejp, I have a feeling that all K3s exhibit this behaviour, and easily observable when testing it between Auto-flash and Manual Flash mode. Now whether it is an issue or just the way Pentax/Ricoh designed it no one knows yet, and if they did do it on purpose it would be good to know why. I'd be happy to be proven wrong that it's not an issue.

I agree the "lag" or hesitation is subjective. As per a few posts back, on Manual mode, the flash fires as soon as the shutter button is depressed. In Auto Flash mode, the flash fires in the "uphill" or when the button has been pressed for some time (it's not long, but long enough for light to travel twice around the planet. Some people may not consider it a lag, but it doesn't explain why my DS, DL, K10D, or K5 fire on queue and this new one somewhat has a slow reaction at the starting block.
11-16-2013, 01:55 PM   #48
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I tested (K3) both pop up flash and external Metz.

1) there is a lag, hard to quantify, I would say between 0,1 and 0,2 sec., in PTTL, both flashes
2) there is no lag if both flashes are set to manual

I would say, that delay is caused by evaluating PTTL pre-flash.
I don't think it's a matter of faulty HW, it's simply so.

There is always possibility to switch to manual flash in time critical situations.

EDIT: The lag comes before pre-flash...

Last edited by Jan67; 11-16-2013 at 02:14 PM.
11-17-2013, 02:42 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jan67 Quote
I tested (K3) both pop up flash and external Metz.

1) there is a lag, hard to quantify, I would say between 0,1 and 0,2 sec., in PTTL, both flashes
2) there is no lag if both flashes are set to manual

I would say, that delay is caused by evaluating PTTL pre-flash.
I don't think it's a matter of faulty HW, it's simply so.

There is always possibility to switch to manual flash in time critical situations.

EDIT: The lag comes before pre-flash...
I think you resume it all.
If it is the price to pay to have a correct measure to avoid K-5's high-exposure, well, it's ok. But I'd like Pentax to tell us if we are right :-)

11-17-2013, 04:42 AM   #50
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There used to be complaints about exposure inaccuracy AND 'blinkies'. Pentax may have chosen a suitable delay to avoid blinkies. There always has to be some delay when using a pre-flash to judge exposure, perhaps it was too quick before.
11-17-2013, 05:24 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB Quote
There used to be complaints about exposure inaccuracy AND 'blinkies'. Pentax may have chosen a suitable delay to avoid blinkies. There always has to be some delay when using a pre-flash to judge exposure, perhaps it was too quick before.
I have the K5 and not the K5II/s so I'm not sure if this "delay/lag/hesitation" is evident on them. If you have the K3, can you please run a few tests between your Auto-Flash mode and the Manual Flash mode using the pop-up flash. I'd be good to know what you think and observe.
11-17-2013, 08:15 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Teal Quote
I have the K5 and not the K5II/s so I'm not sure if this "delay/lag/hesitation" is evident on them. If you have the K3, can you please run a few tests between your Auto-Flash mode and the Manual Flash mode using the pop-up flash. I'd be good to know what you think and observe.
Ihave a K-5, K-3 and my father have a K-5 II.
There is clearly no lag in P-TTL with K-5 and K-5 II compared to my K-3.
11-17-2013, 09:22 PM   #53
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Seems it's a "feature"

From what I can gather, everyone with a K3 observes the slight lag/delay/hesitation or whatever you want to call it. Basically there is a noticeable difference between Manual Flash Mode and Auto Flash Mode in terms of when the flash actually triggers. 1/10th 1/20th...what ever, there is a difference.

To convince myself it wasn't just me or several "special" models with this "feature" I went to two camera stores at lunch and tried out their K3s. Yes, they both had this "feature". Even the salesperson was left dumbfounded when I left. I plan on passing by another store on the way home and will try out their K3 to see if it behaves the same.

I've seen a lot of comments saying this this is the P-TTL and that it's normal. While it maybe true that this is the P-TTL doing something, why is it that all other Pentax cameras (K5, K10D, DS, DL) I've had have never exhibited this behaviour in Auto Flash mode - which use P-TTL also?

Either this P-TTL thing is something that has been overlooked by Ricoh on the K3 and they forgot to mention there was now a lag/delay/hesitation, or that Pentax/Hoya have overlooked P-TTL on previous models and that they actually didn't work. Which is it?

Also, why is it that the K3 review in this website never went through the flash photography? Surely it could have been picked up then, and perhaps an explanation could have been provided.

11-17-2013, 09:46 PM   #54
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If on-board and external flash works, is still prompt in operation, and most importantly, meters accurately and reliably in PTTL mode, this is all a storm-in-a-teacup.

IMHO, there is no reason to worry if this behavior is different from previous Pentaxes. Almost all the K-3 internals are substantially different from previous Pentaxes - AF system, metering system, imaging engine, sensor etc. The way K-3 flash exposure is evaluated and controlled is probably intimately connected with those new systems.
12-03-2013, 04:42 PM   #55
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Just want to confirm that my K-3 has this lag, too.
Hope a FW Update will fix this, if possible.
12-03-2013, 05:50 PM   #56
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Yes the K3 exhibits a short delay in PTTL mode compared to M mode and other bodies. However, bounce flash exposures are now spot on so I don't have an issue with this. I compared the K3 to the K5IIs which didn't have this small delay.

Dale
12-03-2013, 08:58 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by kdre Quote
Hope a FW Update will fix this, if possible
There seems nothing to fix, really.

I've shot multiple photos now with external and in-built flash, and I never even thought to check for any delay, even though I knew about this thread. It's not something you notice.

And yes, flash exposure has been great - indoors, outdoors, bounce etc.

If there is something to fix, by all means Pentax should fix it, but I'm not sure if anything is indeed broken here.
12-04-2013, 03:59 AM   #58
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QuoteQuote:
It's not something you notice.
How can you say that I donīt notice it if I just wrote that I notice it?

To be clear the process is as follows

1. I push the button
2. Delay
3. Then a preflash
4. Then shutter + main flash

I really notice the delay (point 2) after I push the button and it is bothering me, because the camera feels kind of unresponsive. If there is a technical reason for this delay then let it be, but if this delay can be reduced or removed I would be more than happy.

But I agree: Exposures are very good with flash. Nothing to complain here.
12-04-2013, 04:30 AM   #59
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Even my k3 have this problem, always acts a compact, even though my flash board works well, it was more rettivo the flesh of k5
12-04-2013, 05:15 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
There seems nothing to fix, really.

I've shot multiple photos now with external and in-built flash, and I never even thought to check for any delay, even though I knew about this thread. It's not something you notice.

And yes, flash exposure has been great - indoors, outdoors, bounce etc.

If there is something to fix, by all means Pentax should fix it, but I'm not sure if anything is indeed broken here.
Your seeing things from just your 'use' metric for many the flash delay may be a deal breaker.

Being unable to use flash for moving subjects gives competitive advantage to every other manufacturer not something your flag ship product should be doing.
Leaves me wondering why manufacturers wasted their time reducing mirror black out another unneeded feature .!

I used external flash for some 'action' shots you certainly notice the delay then.
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