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02-04-2014, 09:16 AM - 2 Likes   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by gosman Quote
Thank you Jup for the manufacturing date info. The site was very beneficial. My camera was manufactured on 10-13-1013. Does anyone know when the first date is of manufacture? Anyone getting more recent cameras? Maybe I should start a different thread? I did have a complete shut down of the camera yesterday. I updated last night to the 1.01 firmware upgrade. I don't like getting one of the first cameras off the line. But I guess that is what upgraded firmware is all about.
Mine was manufactured considerably after the battle of Hastings

02-04-2014, 09:55 AM   #107
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Mine is made september 19. The hardware has not changed. Spoke to the swedish Pentax service today and he will talk to Pentax about this delay as he also find it to be to long. He will get back to me...
02-04-2014, 10:05 AM   #108
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And sorry, no change with firmware 1.02...
02-04-2014, 04:47 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
I line up the shot as the swimmer surfaces focused ready to shoot press the shutter
And you can't follow the swimmer's stroke and anticipate when s/he will break the meniscus of the water? Why don't you increase your ISO so you don't need to use a flash and take advantage of continuous shooting? If the delay on your camera is erratic, I can understand why that would be a problem, but all I'm reading here is that the shutter doesn't trip instantly (after all the flash is firing when the shutter is open, but the shutter is being delayed when using a flash). If you can't prepare your timing in advance, but still need precision, you should look at a remote trigger, and set your flash manually.

I'm definitely an amateur, but I've shot sports with a Super Program film camera (which had no auto focus and the shutter tripped whether or not the flash was ready) where I didn't have the luxury of using ambient light and if I waited until I saw the event I wanted to capture (making a basket, crossing the finish line, etc.) in the viewfinder, it was too late. Can you take a video of your camera and play it back in slow motion to see how long the delay is? Better yet, can you remote trigger two cameras at the same time to prove that there is something wrong with your camera? Trying to reconcile anecdotes is frustrating for everyone involved. The choice is yours, you can chase your tail like the tiger in The Jungle Book, or you can break down your problem into reproducible conditions to get it resolved. I do have considerable experience in customer service, and your odds of getting satisfaction from Pentax (or any manufacturer) will be much better if you can precisely describe your problem.

02-04-2014, 07:49 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
. Can you take a video of your camera and play it back in slow motion to see how long the delay is? Better yet, can you remote trigger two cameras at the same time to prove that there is something wrong with your camera?
+1000
I'm on the other side (the engineering side) and if you can get it to some reproducible state, it makes solving the problem much quicker.
If you still have your K-5, video tape both.

I'm also wondering if everyone has different settings. E.g., w/ my K20D, I wanted to maximize speed for smallest continuous shots because I couldn't reproduce spec'd speeds. Turned out that if I didn't leave it on "natural" colors, it would never hit max speed. I never expected this because I though all the color processing would have been done in hardware so it wouldn't affect the speed...
02-04-2014, 11:27 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
And you can't follow the swimmer's stroke and anticipate when s/he will break the meniscus of the water? Why don't you increase your ISO so you don't need to use a flash and take advantage of continuous shooting? If the delay on your camera is erratic, I can understand why that would be a problem, but all I'm reading here is that the shutter doesn't trip instantly (after all the flash is firing when the shutter is open, but the shutter is being delayed when using a flash). If you can't prepare your timing in advance, but still need precision, you should look at a remote trigger, and set your flash manually.
three points
1 flash can fire quite happily in continuous mode you just need enough power (TR3 multiple wireless flashes)
2 Increase ISO ? so your after a flashed image to freeze fast action the solution is destroy the shot with noise and still not achieve shutter required ??
3 no your reading what happens wrong you press the shutter nothing happens zip zilcho nada then 1/10 of a second later the flash pre-falshes and main flash shutter triggers.

You are right the gap between pre and main is a necessary requirement but that's not where the delay is


QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
I'm definitely an amateur, but I've shot sports with a Super Program film camera (which had no auto focus and the shutter tripped whether or not the flash was ready) where I didn't have the luxury of using ambient light and if I waited until I saw the event I wanted to capture (making a basket, crossing the finish line, etc.) in the viewfinder, it was too late. .
Funny enough when I got my A-1 in 1979 the same argument was leveled against it , to many automatic functions ruining the art of photography yet the reality is every camera is a tool to take pictures.
I take pictures today in environments I wouldn't have got my camera out in the 60's , Never the less if a camera is supposed to deliver a certain performance level and your paying for that performance level should it not deliver ?

QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Can you take a video of your camera and play it back in slow motion to see how long the delay is? Better yet, can you remote trigger two cameras at the same time to prove that there is something wrong with your camera? Trying to reconcile anecdotes is frustrating for everyone involved. The choice is yours, you can chase your tail like the tiger in The Jungle Book, or you can break down your problem into reproducible conditions to get it resolved. I do have considerable experience in customer service, and your odds of getting satisfaction from Pentax (or any manufacturer) will be much better if you can precisely describe your problem.
It was an example, for any example you can find work arounds, But that's not the point I can spend all day coming up with new examples that negate your work arounds.

The point is the camera should not have a delay before it does anything, A cheap P&S does not have a delay I pay DLSR prices for a fast camera.
ergo I expect it to be fast.
You can shoot perfectly good pictures with a phone camera so by your reckoning surely DSLR are a waste of money anyway.?

As to the delay time is just under 1/10 of a second, you half press the shutter (or use af button) camera AF's and when you press the shutter ..... nothing till 1/10 of a second later pre flash.... shutter and main flash.

It doesn't need quantifying Pentax service all over Europe are aware and awaiting response from Japan , There is no maybe it's you or your technique the delay is acknowledged and being investigated.

Nothing else really to say , the k3 has a delay in pttl that should not be there, it's not present in any other P-ttl camera from the IST through to k5iis

Last edited by awaldram; 02-04-2014 at 11:49 PM.
02-05-2014, 07:58 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
the delay time is just under 1/10 of a second, you half press the shutter
If 1/10 of a second is too long, quit using your finger, and use a remote trigger. Unless you are Usain Bolt, you can't get your twitch muscles to work precisely enough to even get close to this. I'm only posting this reply because someone else reading your post might think you know what you are writing about. Mental chronometry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
02-05-2014, 08:34 AM - 1 Like   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
If 1/10 of a second is too long, quit using your finger, and use a remote trigger. Unless you are Usain Bolt, you can't get your twitch muscles to work precisely enough to even get close to this. I'm only posting this reply because someone else reading your post might think you know what you are writing about. Mental chronometry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Seriously? And how would the remote be any different to the shutter button? And what does reaction time and shutter delay have in common?

I am only posting this reply because someone else reading your post might actually think you know what you are talking about.

02-05-2014, 08:39 AM - 2 Likes   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
If 1/10 of a second is too long, quit using your finger, and use a remote trigger. Unless you are Usain Bolt, you can't get your twitch muscles to work precisely enough to even get close to this. I'm only posting this reply because someone else reading your post might think you know what you are writing about. Mental chronometry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm just posting this to show how fast twitch muscle are!!
Note my finger position.
And of cause all the delays are sequential so if you assume my reaction time .3 and the camera bug is .1 the the shutter is delayed 25% longer than it should be.
Given your reaction your obviously do not use your camera in time critical situations so I find it hard to understand why your so rude given youi inability to understand or appreciate the issue.
The problem with the delay is human reaction time , you predict the shutter time send the signal to your finger to coincide with the required event yet the camera does ...Nothing.

As this image clearly shows I can easily remove my finger from the shutter before the shutter opens , given as per your abusive response either I'm super reaction man or there is something wrong with all k3's when firing P-ttl, assuming it take .3 secs fro me to send the signal and move my finger. !!

Don't forget to wipe the egg of your face before you go out LoL !
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Last edited by awaldram; 02-05-2014 at 08:55 AM.
02-05-2014, 09:17 AM   #115
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What flash is that you have?
02-05-2014, 03:20 PM   #116
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FWIW, I do agree it's best to use some sort of remote shutter. To totally quantize the delays, you need to be able to measure start/start times accurately.

Seems like it's fairly slow if you can fire it and release your finger though. I'm glad I use manual and A mode on my K20D...everything is instantaneous ;-)
02-14-2014, 06:53 AM   #117
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Has anyone been in touch with Pentax/Ricoh about this? If so, any feedback?

Regards,
Lage
02-14-2014, 07:06 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lage Quote
Has anyone been in touch with Pentax/Ricoh about this? If so, any feedback?

Regards,
Lage
My Pentax service shop has been talking to Pentax. I am waiting for reply.
02-17-2014, 06:10 PM   #119
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Hi,
I have to add my voice to this thread. I notices a very long, about 1 sec, delay when shooting in PTTL mode. When I push the shutter button the pre-flash fires right away and then the main flash goes off along with the shutter. I have AF540 and the f/w is 1.02.
When I use the onboard flash the delay is much shorter but still visible.
I wonder if anyone got a word from Ricoh about it and/or if they're going to fix it.
02-17-2014, 06:43 PM   #120
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PTTL is exactly as you explained Sinus. Pre-flash and then the big flash. That is what PTTL is!
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