[slip]

HD 15mm limited

great shot
how did you get to stay behind the net like that? yes a strange question but last basketball game I tried to do I can only shoot their backs

randy

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Last edited by slip; 12-05-2016 at 04:59 PM. Reason: should have said basketball not volleyball

[aaacb]

great shot
how did you get to stay behind the net like that? yes a strange question but last volleyball game I tried to do I can only shoot their backs

randy

Thanks! That's from right next to the base of the hoop... sometimes you need to get out of the way fast if someone falls.

For volleyball, if I stay at the end of the court, it's usually 1/3 or 1/4 from the side. You can't always avoid the defenders blocking your line of sight. Something else to keep in mind is to find a height that at least sometimes doesn't get the top of the net right over the players' faces. So it's a low yield process, but I like the angle.

[tripleml]

Hi all - special note to Miguel because I read this thread before shooting at indoor basketball games last Friday and I was so excited for the outcome. Sadly, it was awful. (Yes, I know it's me, but don't know what to change).

Using the K-3, I have a Tamron 70-300 (I will provide the exact lens info later as I don't have it on me) anyhow, my settings were 1/1000, iso 6400, and f5 (ish). All shots were dark. They weren't completely dark, I saw the players, but just not anything you would keep/produce/use. I tried lowering/increasing shutter, I tried increasing ISO. I played around a lot with all the settings but all were way too dark. I even turned on the flash, images were bright but shutter maxes at 1/150 so that was no better than green mode. To be honest, I was thinking the lens was old, mechanics not a good fit for the k-3 and many other things but then when I changed it to green mode, the pictures were bright and looked as I expected, of course I could not control the shutter. I cannot accept shooting in green mode, what is the point of that, but I just do not know what the problem is. I know the lens can take photos, and really I'm just trying to get a few shots that are decent at a higher shutter speed.

So, I did read all of Miguel's tips and suggestions (along with others on this thread) and I applied all of the suggested settings, but my images were still too dark. Could it be my lens? How do I know?

I have 3 lenses from a prior Pentax (cannot recall model at the moment) and I use those with the K-3, but maybe they do not work well. I admit, I am not to that level yet. I am still in the mode of exploring all the possibilities of trying to capture great/unique shots. The glass is a factor but so is $$ and I was trying to make due with what I had in my bag already.

I am going to try a new lens tonight, it's a Tamron AF 18-200 3.5-6.3 XR Di II LD Aspherical Macro Zoom lens - do you all have any comments on this lens? I'm wondering if it will shoot in higher shutter speeds. Now, I will say I get excellent photos of waterfalls when I change the shutter, but that's outdoor and light is plenty.

I saw a post about a 55-300 lens and also saw a Sigma 70-300 lens that I could try (IF the current Tamron 70-300 lens is the problem). I am open to learning from each of you on this forum, I hope you can forgive my ignorance in some areas and boost me to the top to get a few great shots. Thanks much!
Michele

[aaacb]

1/1000, iso 6400, and f5

Can you compare the settings your camera picks in green mode (or P or Tv) to your manual settings? Where I shoot indoors volleyball and basketball, 1/500 and f4 requires iso 4000-6400, and just by looking at it I think the lights are brighter than the average gym; certainly much brighter than the worst I've seen. Even then I have to adjust up half a stop sometimes (in raw). If "5ish" is f5.6 then you have a stop less and you would need 1/250 at iso6400, so it makes sense that you get underexposed shots.

Green mode is indeed not that good for sports, but I use P or Tv quite often, it's faster to get exposure compensation right than to always remember to check my settings when I move around the field.

[tripleml]

I did an initial look but nothing stood out to me as different than what I was trying to do in shutter mode. That is why I was pointing my finger to the lens (notice not to myself) Seriously, is it possible the lens has anything to do with it? But then I saw what it did in green mode so that makes me think no. Hmm....

[RedBoomer]

TripleML (Michele),

I have taken 1000's of basketball photos with my K3 (and k5 before that) and I can tell you that getting indoor basketball shots is about as testing a subject for a camera as anything I can think of - gyms are poorly lit and the action is fast. So don't be disheartened by initial difficulties. However the issue is usually getting a sharp photo - your problem seems to be with exposure?

Lighting in gyms varies greatly from bad to terrible. I mostly use my DA* 50-135mm F2.8 (which is reputedly slow focussing but I have many, many great photos with it). My usual settings are 1/350s, F2.8, iso 560-1600 depending on the light and usually shoot at around 70mm from the sideline. If the light is a bit better then I increase the shutter to 1/500, then if more light then keep iso at 560 and increase the aperture to F3.5 or F4. If you are shooting younger kids (slower players) then 1/250s is OK.

I would also recommend that you use TAv with the shutter at 1/350 and the lens wide open - F4 for your Tamron and at 50-70mm focal length. You should then get an ISO of 560-3200 and, subject to your focus skills and lens optics, you should get some good photos.

On the focus front, try AFC, Sel 2 with centre-point, and all menu settings set to focus priority. I also recommend using the AF rear button but this can be something to try later when u are getting good photos with shutter half press. I recommend you stand on the sideline near the corner and shoot players going for goal. The skill is to track the player in the viewfinder, when you have the player centred in the viewfinder, half-press the shutter to allow the lens to find focus (say 1/2s) then take the shot. Also utilise the Continuous Shooting (High) and take 2-4 shots to maximise your chances of it all working.

Good luck!

[tripleml]

TripleML (Michele),

I have taken 1000's of basketball photos with my K3 (and k5 before that) and I can tell you that getting indoor basketball shots is about as testing a subject for a camera as anything I can think of - gyms are poorly lit and the action is fast. So don't be disheartened by initial difficulties. However the issue is usually getting a sharp photo - your problem seems to be with exposure?

Lighting in gyms varies greatly from bad to terrible. I mostly use my DA* 50-135mm F2.8 (which is reputedly slow focussing but I have many, many great photos with it). My usual settings are 1/350s, F2.8, iso 560-1600 depending on the light and usually shoot at around 70mm from the sideline. If the light is a bit better then I increase the shutter to 1/500, then if more light then keep iso at 560 and increase the aperture to F3.5 or F4. If you are shooting younger kids (slower players) then 1/250s is OK.

I would also recommend that you use TAv with the shutter at 1/350 and the lens wide open - F4 for your Tamron and at 50-70mm focal length. You should then get an ISO of 560-3200 and, subject to your focus skills and lens optics, you should get some good photos.

On the focus front, try AFC, Sel 2 with centre-point, and all menu settings set to focus priority. I also recommend using the AF rear button but this can be something to try later when u are getting good photos with shutter half press. I recommend you stand on the sideline near the corner and shoot players going for goal. The skill is to track the player in the viewfinder, when you have the player centred in the viewfinder, half-press the shutter to allow the lens to find focus (say 1/2s) then take the shot. Also utilise the Continuous Shooting (High) and take 2-4 shots to maximise your chances of it all working.

Good luck!

Thank you so much RedBoomer for the tips - I will surely try these! Last night, I was able to get pics at 1/500 but ISO was at 6400 and higher. They looked good until I zoomed in and saw all the noise, ugh, so I rolled ISO back down and tried to get some clearer shots.

Thanks also for confirming I am not going mad by trying to take photos in the gym. My goodness, talk about getting pumped up by 'knowing' all the right settings and then sitting there, taking a snap, and it's darkness. But I'm so glad for your message and can't wait to try all of this on Friday's games!

I really am considering buying a lens that will help me in this area, but what lens will really help me with indoor that doesn't cost $1000? I tried a lens a few years back that was pricey, but for the money I was not getting the results I expected, so I did not keep the lens. I'm sure that at the time I just had no idea of what I was doing but now I'd like to see what others suggest for lenses in this area. I assume having a lens that goes to a 2.8 stop or lower would be very helpful. Thanks again!!

Michele

[Rondec]

Thank you so much RedBoomer for the tips - I will surely try these! Last night, I was able to get pics at 1/500 but ISO was at 6400 and higher. They looked good until I zoomed in and saw all the noise, ugh, so I rolled ISO back down and tried to get some clearer shots.

Thanks also for confirming I am not going mad by trying to take photos in the gym. My goodness, talk about getting pumped up by 'knowing' all the right settings and then sitting there, taking a snap, and it's darkness. But I'm so glad for your message and can't wait to try all of this on Friday's games!

I really am considering buying a lens that will help me in this area, but what lens will really help me with indoor that doesn't cost $1000? I tried a lens a few years back that was pricey, but for the money I was not getting the results I expected, so I did not keep the lens. I'm sure that at the time I just had no idea of what I was doing but now I'd like to see what others suggest for lenses in this area. I assume having a lens that goes to a 2.8 stop or lower would be very helpful. Thanks again!!

Michele

I think the hardest part is that your lens is probably the limiting factor. Having a lens that will open the aperture up to f2.8 would be best. A used Sigma 50-150 f2.8 would probably be about perfect, but unfortunately they don't come on the market really often. If you thought you could get by with a single focal length lens, the DA 70 might work as well.

[RedBoomer]

Just for interest I thought I would check what focal lengths I mostly use when photographing a basketball game. This might help TripleML with his lens choice. I would definitely recommend an F2.8 lens for the K3 as light/shutter speed is always an issue so any slower lens is usually going to drive iso unacceptably high. An F2.0 lens might work well but the DOF becomes thin and with the fast action requires good focussing skills & technique or accepting a lower keeper rate.

I recently photographed a guard playing in a game. I was standing near the sideline and near to the corner - the best place for offensive action. I use continuous shooting and take 2-4 frames per piece of action. I use the DA* 50-135mm F2.8 zooming to the 50mm end for action at my end of the court and then zooming to the 135mm end for action at the opposite end of the court. In this game I took about 175 shots and kept 58 of them that had both proper focus and decent composition (usually no obstruction to the view of the subject). There were about 10 of these that I would say were good photos. Of the 58 that I still have in my Lightroom (the other 120 went to trash) about 19 were in the 50-70mm, 15 were 70-100mm and 22 were 100-135mm. This surprised me a little as I would have thought there would be most at the 50-70 mm end but on this occasion, because I was following a point guard, there were a number of shots of the far end and the guard bringing the ball down the court. It does show that a 50-135mm zoom is very useful for shooting both ends of the court. I have included a shot from each focal range to give an idea of the framing (from different match to the stats above). These photos were taken in a newish stadium (<10 years old) with modern lighting but you will see that the shutter speeds are low and the iso quite high. All photos are uncropped - the K3 allows a fair degree of cropping so I generally shoot wider and crop a bit.

First photo under the near goal is at 50mm/ 1/250s/F2.8/iso 4500. The second at the near 3-point line is at 75mm/1/250s/ F2.8/iso 3200. The third at the far goal at 135mm / 250s/F2.8/iso 4500.

So go for a F2.8 lens, the 50-150mm range zoom is ideal but Rondec's suggestion of an DA 70mm would work well (both assuming u r shooting from near the side of the court).

[Canada_Rockies]

I would even suggest trying a 50-55 mm lens and cropping as needed. I find basketball and volleyball are "close to the player" sports. The longer focal lengths tend to lose the subject at the best moment because another player pops in front.

You can also go to the opposite extreme. I used my MZ-S, the M 400/5.6, a sturdy tripod and set up in the corner of the bleachers focusing just in front of the net at the opposite end of the hockey rink. I watched the game with a cable release in my hand. Pressed the release when things got interesting and got some rather nice shots. Not Sports Illustrated quality, but the local weekly printed quite a few. This was not six year old players; they were young adults in the local league and/or the "Rusty Blades" legion. Some of those blades were not at all rusty!

[tripleml]

Just for interest I thought I would check what focal lengths I mostly use when photographing a basketball game. This might help TripleML with his lens choice. I would definitely recommend an F2.8 lens for the K3 as light/shutter speed is always an issue so any slower lens is usually going to drive iso unacceptably high. An F2.0 lens might work well but the DOF becomes thin and with the fast action requires good focussing skills & technique or accepting a lower keeper rate.

I recently photographed a guard playing in a game. I was standing near the sideline and near to the corner - the best place for offensive action. I use continuous shooting and take 2-4 frames per piece of action. I use the DA* 50-135mm F2.8 zooming to the 50mm end for action at my end of the court and then zooming to the 135mm end for action at the opposite end of the court. In this game I took about 175 shots and kept 58 of them that had both proper focus and decent composition (usually no obstruction to the view of the subject). There were about 10 of these that I would say were good photos. Of the 58 that I still have in my Lightroom (the other 120 went to trash) about 19 were in the 50-70mm, 15 were 70-100mm and 22 were 100-135mm. This surprised me a little as I would have thought there would be most at the 50-70 mm end but on this occasion, because I was following a point guard, there were a number of shots of the far end and the guard bringing the ball down the court. It does show that a 50-135mm zoom is very useful for shooting both ends of the court. I have included a shot from each focal range to give an idea of the framing (from different match to the stats above). These photos were taken in a newish stadium (<10 years old) with modern lighting but you will see that the shutter speeds are low and the iso quite high. All photos are uncropped - the K3 allows a fair degree of cropping so I generally shoot wider and crop a bit.

First photo under the near goal is at 50mm/ 1/250s/F2.8/iso 4500. The second at the near 3-point line is at 75mm/1/250s/ F2.8/iso 3200. The third at the far goal at 135mm / 250s/F2.8/iso 4500.

So go for a F2.8 lens, the 50-150mm range zoom is ideal but Rondec's suggestion of an DA 70mm would work well (both assuming u r shooting from near the side of the court).

Great shots and thanks for the tips - I will surely begin my search for this type of lens. I am excited to get shots with a lower f stop.

---------- Post added 12-08-16 at 12:23 PM ----------

I would even suggest trying a 50-55 mm lens and cropping as needed. I find basketball and volleyball are "close to the player" sports. The longer focal lengths tend to lose the subject at the best moment because another player pops in front.

You can also go to the opposite extreme. I used my MZ-S, the M 400/5.6, a sturdy tripod and set up in the corner of the bleachers focusing just in front of the net at the opposite end of the hockey rink. I watched the game with a cable release in my hand. Pressed the release when things got interesting and got some rather nice shots. Not Sports Illustrated quality, but the local weekly printed quite a few. This was not six year old players; they were young adults in the local league and/or the "Rusty Blades" legion. Some of those blades were not at all rusty!

Albert - Are you suggesting I pull out my nifty fifty? i have a great 50mm but honestly don't ever use it, figured it was mostly for pics of flowers and portraits. I'll try anything if you think I can use it.

[GvilleRick]

I mainly use my Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 for basketball but also will shoot some with a Sigma 10-20. I also use my Pentax 50mm f/1.4 some and crop if necessary. Here was a shot that I found interesting from last week. I was sitting behind the basket using the 10-20 lens. ISO was 6400 since it is not a fast lens.

[slip]

with indoor sports, speed of the lens is pretty much everything. when I first started taking volleyball pics I had a K10 and the Sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5 and I was lucky to get a handful of keepers (I used the 70mm end for 90% of the shots) back then if you shot at ISO 1600 it was too noisy.
today you might get away with f 4 but 2.8 would be much better as you can set the newer cameras to ISO6400 without to much of a hit in quality. better grainy then having the shot blurry
I use the DA 50-135 2.8 which is converted to screw drive. I prefocus in the spot I think the action is going to go, and when it does I quickly raise the camera to my eye and fire. if you have enough shutter speed it works great but takes a LOT of practice.
I have tried the Sigma 70-200 2.8 but found out that I usually use it at 70-90mm so the extra weight isn't worth the reach.

Randy

[Canada_Rockies]

Great shots and thanks for the tips - I will surely begin my search for this type of lens. I am excited to get shots with a lower f stop.

---------- Post added 12-08-16 at 12:23 PM ----------


Albert - Are you suggesting I pull out my nifty fifty? i have a great 50mm but honestly don't ever use it, figured it was mostly for pics of flowers and portraits. I'll try anything if you think I can use it.

Yep. Been there and done that. Fast lens for higher shutter speeds and quicker focusing and reactions. I have used manual fifties and Catch in Focus for years. Mind you, I have had a lot of years with a Pentax in front of my face: 55 the last time I counted.

---------- Post added 2016-12-08 at 16:16 ----------

I mainly use my Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 for basketball but also will shoot some with a Sigma 10-20. I also use my Pentax 50mm f/1.4 some and crop if necessary. Here was a shot that I found interesting from last week. I was sitting behind the basket using the 10-20 lens. ISO was 6400 since it is not a fast lens.

That is one neat shot. The depth of field with that wide wide is fantastic!

[GvilleRick]

Yep. Been there and done that. Fast lens for higher shutter speeds and quicker focusing and reactions. I have used manual fifties and Catch in Focus for years. Mind you, I have had a lot of years with a Pentax in front of my face: 55 the last time I counted.

---------- Post added 2016-12-08 at 16:16 ----------

That is one neat shot. The depth of field with that wide wide is fantastic!

Thanks, I got the shot by accident since the ref moved in front of me as I was shooting.