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01-16-2014, 08:09 PM   #136
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@grispie: Doesn't look too bad in your sample. When I tried it out it was awful (see my clip). However if you use longer lenses I doubt the K-3 can keep up. Also, maybe you can try out the crop. At least with the K-30 it was quite bad according to forumers, and it has to be. Otherwise the SR can't correct much.

It doesn't surprise me that outdoors you won't have much problems with the electronic SR. As long as the shutter speed is short enough it will do fine. The problem comes when it takes the camera the full 1/24s from the first line to the last, in that time a lot can have moved. Also, all the motion that has happened in that time will be visible. Expose a photo for 1/24, and have some camera movement during that (due to shaky hands). You will have motion blur. That's what you will also get with video, and there is no cure except for making sure what arrives on the sensor is stable.

@Steve: The K-5 does not have jello. None. Yes, most DSLRs have, but NOT the K-5. Not when SR is activated. Why is the K-3 not as good as the K-5? It's newer, it puts more focus on video functionality, so why is it a downgrade in this regard? That's my problem. If Pentax had never been better than the K-3, fine. But it was better. I can only ask you to watch my footage again on my YouTube channel.

@maverick: Watch the sample I've posted. Jello deluxe. It was the same with the K-30, and that was the reason I bought the K-5, and not the K-30. Tried both in a shop, and it was immediately clear I couldn't get the K-30.

@TomGarn: In lens IS can be better, but it doesn't have to be. I like the look of that Tamron, but it can't correct much (but gives a nicer handheld Michael Bay look without the jitter that really disturbs). And also, it just applies to that particular lens. A different Tamron may perform completely differently depending on the hardware and software in the lens, let alone other brands. Anyway, I don't think if you're doing suspense horror you'll be doing lots of slow pans... I can't do that handheld anyway, it'll move up, and down, ... the point is probably more to move around a lot, but to eliminate jello and judder.

Hot pixels are an issue. 5? Mine has more... Many more. Like 10?

@JinDesu: Only works in still mode. They are not eliminated in video mode.

The Sony A77, if the A57 is close enough, is very much like the K-3. It does crop to 1.8 something when shooting video, and it does have an electronic SR. Which might work better. I personally don't like the look of videos from it, they seem oversharpened, like video camera footage (while the K-5 has a very natural, cinematic look to it IMHO), but maybe that can be fixed in the settings. What works great in the Sony is auto focus. It uses phase detect sensors during video, so it knows exactly where to focus on. It does that a bit fast maybe, but it can help a lot as long as it doesn't lock on the wrong object. 24p happens at 24 Mbps, 50p happens at 28 Mbps (50i at 24 Mbps). That is about as good as the K-3. If you do consider Sony, wait a bit. They are slowly introducing their BIONZ X CPU into their cameras, which should give you very high quality encoding at really high bitrates (like, 100 Mbps, 200 Mbps, ...) and 4K resolution. The CPU also supports pixel binning, as you'd find in the GH2/GH3, which increases light sensitivity and reduces moire/aliasing due to making use of all pixels on the sensor.

01-16-2014, 08:21 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
I think the k-5 (and practically all Pentax cameras) have a pixel mapping function
that gets rid of hot pixels. Would that help?
Yes, I had hoped so and tried that of course - but it can't fix those big pixle -offs ... that's to bad.
The first 2 minutes are OK - but then my K-5 gets warm (hot) ... and those ed up areas just go mad ...

Wanna see my - traffic pixle lights - at the right side here ?
Then download - not just click - this short clip:
TV108 - Downloads
01-16-2014, 11:03 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
Yes, I had hoped so and tried that of course - but it can't fix those big pixle -offs ... that's to bad.
The first 2 minutes are OK - but then my K-5 gets warm (hot) ... and those ed up areas just go mad ...

Wanna see my - traffic pixle lights - at the right side here ?
Then download - not just click - this short clip:
TV108 - Downloads
Well, then... look at this...

My Pentax K-5, after some heating up. I'm counting 29 hot pixels. Even if you get one without... after a while it will have them. Especially if you take the camera on a plane. And yes, at least 3 or 4 of them will get very visible when it gets a bit darker...

Unfortunately the forum resizes the photo, despite it being pretty small...
Attached Images
 
01-17-2014, 01:00 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
@grispie: Doesn't look too bad in your sample. When I tried it out it was awful (see my clip). However if you use longer lenses I doubt the K-3 can keep up. Also, maybe you can try out the crop. At least with the K-30 it was quite bad according to forumers, and it has to be. Otherwise the SR can't correct much.
Yes, but you triggered it. That shot you did was not the way you'd make a movie. I agree though, to get the results from my sample I could only move the camera gently and in a smart way. That is why I consider SR to be good for holiday and so. Not to make a semi-pro movie. You never know when it will roar its ugly head. Likely in the most crucial scene, according murphy :-) But I was surprised myself, this was 24p with a shutter of 1/50. You are correct, take a longer lens than 50mm and it gets worse.

The crop, really. I put a bookshelf in a shot yesterday, with both sides from the shelf just visible on the edges, and then switched to videomode. It only took a few cm's away from a 1meter shelf. I really don't care about that.

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The Sony A77, if the A57 is close enough, is very much like the K-3. It does crop to 1.8 something when shooting video, and it does have an electronic SR. Which might work better. I personally don't like the look of videos from it, they seem oversharpened, like video camera footage (while the K-5 has a very natural, cinematic look to it IMHO), but maybe that can be fixed in the settings. What works great in the Sony is auto focus.
Like you say, my sony crops indeed. More than the K3. But it came with a 16-50 2.8 lens. It doesn't bother me either. And the SR is quite reliable here. You can imitate the shouldermount shots you see on TV or films. Very nice. In the manual it says they switched to digital sr due to heat issues on prior models. I guess pentax had the same problems. The oversharpening is due to settings, I'm sure. And I don't use the autofocus a lot, but what i find useful for video is the object tracking it can do. Gorguous to follow a person in a room at f2.8 or lower.
It is really a more video-oriented dslr. And it is three years old or so. Early this year there will be a successor i guess.

I recently found this on the net, quite interesting to read:
there are some statements on the GH series as well, but can't judge on that.
Sony Alpha Video Part 2: AVCHD | Howgreenisyourgarden's Blog

01-17-2014, 01:15 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maverick96 Quote
There is the Leica 45mm f2.8 with OIS that is micro 4/3 . Not as open as the f1.4/1.7 pancake lenses but at least has OIS.
I don't know what that Leica will cost you. But I really don't understand that you don't see a rig and the use of an M28mm 2.8 as a better option?
I filmed with a D800 once and a small, seemingly worthless, rig of about 150euros . But that was reliable steady and the D800 is one heavy cam! And it can be used with any camera and any lens going forward.
I could understand if it was to go on holiday e.g., but when making a short movie: sorry, I just don't get it...
01-17-2014, 01:47 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
Yes, but you triggered it. That shot you did was not the way you'd make a movie. I agree though, to get the results from my sample I could only move the camera gently and in a smart way. That is why I consider SR to be good for holiday and so. Not to make a semi-pro movie. You never know when it will roar its ugly head. Likely in the most crucial scene, according murphy :-) But I was surprised myself, this was 24p with a shutter of 1/50. You are correct, take a longer lens than 50mm and it gets worse.

The crop, really. I put a bookshelf in a shot yesterday, with both sides from the shelf just visible on the edges, and then switched to videomode. It only took a few cm's away from a 1meter shelf. I really don't care about that.



Like you say, my sony crops indeed. More than the K3. But it came with a 16-50 2.8 lens. It doesn't bother me either. And the SR is quite reliable here. You can imitate the shouldermount shots you see on TV or films. Very nice. In the manual it says they switched to digital sr due to heat issues on prior models. I guess pentax had the same problems. The oversharpening is due to settings, I'm sure. And I don't use the autofocus a lot, but what i find useful for video is the object tracking it can do. Gorguous to follow a person in a room at f2.8 or lower.
It is really a more video-oriented dslr. And it is three years old or so. Early this year there will be a successor i guess.

I recently found this on the net, quite interesting to read:
there are some statements on the GH series as well, but can't judge on that.
Sony Alpha Video Part 2: AVCHD | Howgreenisyourgarden's Blog
Yes, I did, but shoot with a 200mm lens or longer, and what I did intentionally here is nothing against what the SR system has to fight then. A K-5 can cope with it. A K-3 can't.

Actually I think electronic SR is quite predictable. For it to work well you need short exposures, at least 1/50th, preferably way less than that (depending on the lens. I think the 1/focal length rule applies here. If you can handhold it and get a sharp shot, chances are the electronic SR will help you without being ugly). Of course that means a Saving Private Ryan look (though at 24p 1/50th is perfectly fine, that's what gives you a cinematic look anyway).

Yeah, it might not matter much, depending on the shot you want, but since Maverick doesn't like mFT too much because of the 2x crop... the 1.8x or so from the K-3 won't make him too happy either I'm afraid.

Heat issues... that could be possible. I never shoot without SR on, maybe I'll try it one day and see how the camera heats up. Still, the option would be nice. Or better yet a combined electronic + mechanical SR, if wanted (if not there shouldn't be a crop at all, and a fully mechanical only SR would work too). The hot pixels only show up when the camera has to ramp up the ISO, so there is still plenty of shots where the mechanical SR will come in handy. I've also never had the camera actually overheat, even if I used it as a webcam for hours. The warning light, yes, overheat, no.

Those shoulder mount shots I can easily do with the K-5, and then some, if I walk goofy.

I'm mostly excited for upcoming Sony DSLTs...

Great link btw., thanks!
01-17-2014, 02:18 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
the 1.8x or so from the K-3
Lets make that 1.6x..
01-17-2014, 08:21 AM   #143
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About Hot - Pixels (pixles ?)

Maerz says ... (Pentax repairs here in Hamburg) ... it can do a sensor justage ... and while
calibrating it the pixles might get reorganized and put off, or at least almost off.

Yes, we all know chips are not 100% clean and bad pixels need to be put off internally
not to spoil the results - I think this is happening a lot and can be delt with on all hardware.

So eventually this can be fixed - but may come back sooner or later. This calibrating and
readjusting costs ~ 70,- € or at least ~ 40,- to find out before, if it could be helpfull in that
case - maybe even reckoning on first sight ..

So if you spend some money you may be lucky for some time ... and just by heating it up
to much the oven will soon reproduce the mistake again ? Doesn't feel comfortable to me
at all. My feeling is, the more pro a sensor - the more it will be of selected quality. So this
is just another cheesy and cheapy Pentax weakness I guess.
Maybe with a new camera you can exchange it when you still have a warranty ... and trust
to get a good sensor next time.

I had this on a Digi-Beta once - and that camera was bought before cheaply. That hot-pixel
was white and I had to shoot in a dark room with +9 db - (first and small gain level only)
It had to be neutralized while professional editing - or you could have thrown awaythe footage.
But this happens rarely on professional cameras ... I just had it once and for all ... (as far
as I know) For HD you will need better selected quailty of course as for SD cameras ..

01-17-2014, 10:08 AM   #144
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Now I am a pixel-peeper ... but what to do ?

A hotpixel-video jpeg exported from Premiere - Editited in photoshop - Brighteness raised up to 50
is here in original size: http://www.tv108.de/temp/hotpixel.jpg

Last edited by TomGarn; 01-17-2014 at 10:51 AM.
01-17-2014, 12:30 PM   #145
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Nikon users, even the FF ones like the D4, are fighting with the same problem. So are all the others. Usually they, just like Pentax, hide them. Only problem is that Pentax doesn't filter them away in videos, at least not in the K-5.

If someone knows a simple way to filter them out (maybe with a map where hot pixels are to be found) it would be great.
01-17-2014, 01:23 PM - 1 Like   #146
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
So this
is just another cheesy and cheapy Pentax weakness I guess.
That's a ridiculous thing to say , you know Pentax don't make the sensors. Besides, it's something that can and does affect all digital image sensors in any brand.
In fact, why the hell do you even use Pentax at all? It's clear you have no respect for the brand and take every opportunity to lambaste it.
01-17-2014, 02:39 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
problem is that Pentax doesn't filter them away in videos, at least not in the K-5.
If someone knows a simple way to filter them out (maybe with a map where hot pixels are to be found) it would be great.
Pixels:
I watched a RAW later on - out of that series "Baking Pixels With A Pentax - that known sensor
heating-up issue. what I saw there was a great darkness - so had to make it two times brighter.
Now I saw:
"My God, it's full of stars!" ... but I guess that's normal - and those mini-hotpixels don't matter
much because they are so small ... and they simply dissapear in the sea of informations - later on.

Problem ist that video works badly with those pixels at Pentax. Why the hell ? Nobody answeres ...
Sadly pixel-mapping doesn't work here - and again: Pentax produces worse quailty out of of what
they could do with their potential - They always only do half of what they are able to do.
Someone else produces good chips - may it be Samsung or Sony ... but what Pentax makes out
of it is below all others on the market ... Poor story.

When I first adressed Pentax's Video Affair someone said: "Forget it, Pentax is good for photos and
that's all - just forget about video here" - I felt this sentence was to much a pain to me, I just couldn't
accept it - because I still wanted to believe in my dying old god now for so long time on my path.
I tried to hold on ... believe and hope - and look for some answers - but I looked into an abyss.

Today I see this first answer of a Pentax-knower was just wise, but I wasn't ripe in those days to take
it in ... Nothing much to add for me.

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MyGodItsFullOfStars

Last edited by TomGarn; 01-17-2014 at 02:50 PM.
01-17-2014, 03:03 PM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
Someone else produces good chips - may it be Samsung or Sony ... but what Pentax makes out
of it is below all others on the market ... Poor story
Just where do you pull this information out of, Tom?
01-17-2014, 03:57 PM   #149
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One can trust - doubt - or disbelieve. Most counting is your own experience.
For newbies lots of questioning is needed first - that's the only way to find out.

For fallen angles like me who worked with all high-professional-tools
but im my private time for 14 years now with Pentax - there is no way to stay
with it professionally - the mistakes they do are legion - but once ago they really
did a good start-up ... but then slowly tumbled form one death to another ... held upright
only because they have lots of cheap glasses from historic great times long ago in the past.
Still photo-cameras are well done.

And they have some believers in DSLR ... who don't buy into real great names in photograpy.
I guess this is a psychological setting - to hold on to the castaway - to the low-talented but filled
with dreams for the sky ~ (or stars)

I sometimes look at the list of winning cameras
in my favourite test-magazine.

Then - out of homesick curiosity I look where the Pentaxes are now in the list of midprice-DSLRs
Watch prices and numbers as follows:
Vergleich: DSLR und DSLM im Test - CHIP

Then I look if a Pentax can be found now (with the new K-3 maybe) in the list for video-DSLRs
Vergleich: DSLR und DSLM f

I guess this is a look into reality hard to bear ... but true.
But of course: Only trust your own experience ... as always and forever ...
01-17-2014, 04:23 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomGarn Quote
but then slowly tumbled form one death to another ... held upright
only because they have lots of cheap glasses from historic great times long ago in the past.
Yep. Pentax is doomed after all. Better take a run while you still can!
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