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01-15-2014, 09:57 PM   #106
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Thank you for the feedback.

I do like the GH2 but its difficult to find a lens in the f1.4-2.0 range that includes OIS. Without the OIS the video is prettying damn shaky unless you invest in a steadicam gear. Lighting is an issue when using the kit lenses (f3.5) during darker video environments too.

I was looking forward to returning to a Pentax as I have some great manual lenses plus having IS in camera. The K3 has some great features with the manual controls and headphone jack that I found exciting but so far the feedback on video hasn't impressed me.

I tend to do more cinematic work that is handheld so a tripod isn't always the best option in certain conditions.

01-15-2014, 11:44 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maverick96 Quote
....but so far the feedback on video hasn't impressed me.
Yeh, well there are some quite vocal persons here who have nothing good to say [ultracrepidarians] - so I'd filter that noise out of the equation, especially as many of these folks don't even own a K-3.
Forums by their nature for the most part attract those with 'issues' to vent about while those who are satisfied generally keep quiet and get on with enjoying their gear.
There are quite a few samples of excellent work done with the K-3, this in itself proves that there is nothing wrong with the gear in the right hands.
01-16-2014, 12:51 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Yeh, well there are some quite vocal persons here who have nothing good to say [ultracrepidarians] - so I'd filter that noise out of the equation, especially as many of these folks don't even own a K-3.
Forums by their nature for the most part attract those with 'issues' to vent about while those who are satisfied generally keep quiet and get on with enjoying their gear.
There are quite a few samples of excellent work done with the K-3, this in itself proves that there is nothing wrong with the gear in the right hands.
I know you are talking about me, but Maverick sounds like he wants in body IS. That is why he considers a Pentax. And sorry to say, but the K-3 does NOT have what you want. You'll need a K-5 for that.

Also I like the K-3 btw., except for this and the bitrates. It will perform well when shooting video, it should give you results on par what you'd get with a Nikon or Canon, if you shoot with it the same way. It will not give you any advantage though (except for audio perhaps). Of course those other systems have the advantage of in lens optical image stabilization that is at least possible, whereas in the K-3 you will have to do without any stabilization, you will have to stabilize the camera itself.

Though if you can record the liveview output you will get image stabilization (which makes it much more idiotic, IMHO. The camera clearly CAN do it, but Pentax just doesn't activate the functionality which would give them a nice edge).

You can have a look at the Olympus OM-D EM1 or so... That one has a 5 axis sensor shift image stabilization that seems to work during video. Heard bad things about Olympus video, but I haven't looked into it.

Btw., the lack of video IS is the reason why I don't even consider upgrading to the K-3. I'm happy with my K-5 in terms of stills and videos, and while an upgrade would improve still quality it would be a downgrade in terms of video.

The K-5 does reduce rolling shutter problems greatly when SR is activated, and it does not create jello. In the K-3 SR makes things much worse, and you won't even see what you are actually shooting. You will also lose wide angle (I haven't tested it, but won't it also crop when you have SR deactivated? That's how most cameras with digital SR are...).
01-16-2014, 01:01 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
You'll need a camera with a CCD if you want zero rolling shutter.
I don't think any firmware is able to fix what is a result of sensor type.
I think that is actually possible. There are some electronic SR systems that attempt to reduce rolling shutter. You'll have to know the movement of the camera and the speed at which the sensor is read. You can then calculate by how much each line has to be shifted. You will have to read a larger frame than what will be recorded though.

But I doubt a mere firmware update is enough to enable that sort of processing, most likely it should be a function built into the image processor.

01-16-2014, 02:18 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maverick96 Quote
I was looking forward to returning to a Pentax as I have some great manual lenses plus having IS in camera. The K3 has some great features with the manual controls and headphone jack that I found exciting but so far the feedback on video hasn't impressed me.

I tend to do more cinematic work that is handheld so a tripod isn't always the best option in certain conditions.
for what it's worth:
if you like handheld cinematic footage, why don't you buy a small rig? I'd personally rather invest in that than in new lenses for another system. It is the best & most reliable stabilization for any brand out there and it does not have to cost a fortune nor does it have to be awfully big.

All these dslrs for filming have their own pro's & cons and they all have the same limitations. Once you go to another brand, you'll find nuisances as well that you did not expect.

If it wouldn't be because of your M lenses, I would advice a sony Dslt.
cheers

Last edited by grispie; 01-16-2014 at 02:19 AM. Reason: edit
01-16-2014, 03:03 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
Once you go to another brand, you'll find nuisances as well that you did not expect.
Ain't that the truth!
But, I'm so keen to try (play with) Magic Lantern I'm considering picking up a 600D and kit lens as they are so cheap right now.
(Curiosity is a bitch )
01-16-2014, 03:21 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
But, I'm so keen to try (play with) Magic Lantern I'm considering picking up a 600D and kit lens as they are so cheap right now.
(Curiosity is a bitch )
yep, the problem is that you only really know what sthing is like when you actually use it yourself. You can look at stuff on vimeo, but you don't know who made it, what their lighting was and so on...

@Maverick:
I wonder though, reading how good the footage from a gh2 or gh3 really is, if it would'nt be a problem to take a step back on the IQ level?
As I understand, no dslr delivers as good IQ footage as the GH series...
01-16-2014, 03:40 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Ain't that the truth!
But, I'm so keen to try (play with) Magic Lantern I'm considering picking up a 600D and kit lens as they are so cheap right now.
(Curiosity is a bitch )
I agree too.

Nice setup. Add the 50mm 1.8 which for Canon is dirt cheap... (Maybe even better second hand).

I'd be more tempted by a GH to be honest, cause of all the lenses that are possible. That or a Black Magic Pocket, if I don't need stills. But the Canon system is nice too.

If you can use some sort of rig that would be great. Even with the great K-5 stabilization it makes sense... It doesn't correct (enough) for rotation, so one of those steering wheel rigs absolutely make sense (focusing would be a problem though).

The GH3 should be quite light sensitive, due to much larger pixels. So f3.5 might not be too bad. Keep in mind that you might not want the shallow DoF at 1.4.

I'm curious Maverick, what sort of shots do you want to get handheld, how do you want to aquire them and how stable should they be?


Last edited by kadajawi; 01-16-2014 at 03:48 AM.
01-16-2014, 05:35 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
That or a Black Magic Pocket
Yes, you can give me a black magic anyday! Although i need to get better first at writing scenario's :-)
to be honest, I feel, for one really interested in "cinema filming", two mounts jump out to me as a wise lens investment.
the first being mft for obvious reasons and the second sony A or E mount.

Just look what Sony released in the last year. And at more or less affordable pricing and in different form factors. And their E mount will also take many lenses including pentax...

Canon C series seems great but it is so expensive.
01-16-2014, 06:54 AM   #115
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Appreciate the feedback guys.

Reason I was looking at K3:
Manual control of video settings (ISO, aperture, shutter)
Headphone mic
In body stabilization
Use of manual Pentax lens

I would use it for stills along with my K7 but it would also be my video camera.

Again, like the GH2 but using non-ois lenses requires steadicam rig. Not impossible but some situations it's hard to work with.

I have been focusing on suspense horror projects where low light situations are a given. I feel light most of the Panasonic lenses do not perform well in these conditions where additional lighting is not available.
IS is important to me as a lot of handheld work is required.

Perhaps Pentax will come out with a K3 II's?
01-16-2014, 07:24 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maverick96 Quote
Appreciate the feedback guys.

Reason I was looking at K3:
Manual control of video settings (ISO, aperture, shutter)
Headphone mic
In body stabilization
Use of manual Pentax lens

I would use it for stills along with my K7 but it would also be my video camera.

Again, like the GH2 but using non-ois lenses requires steadicam rig. Not impossible but some situations it's hard to work with.

I have been focusing on suspense horror projects where low light situations are a given. I feel light most of the Panasonic lenses do not perform well in these conditions where additional lighting is not available.
IS is important to me as a lot of handheld work is required.

Perhaps Pentax will come out with a K3 II's?
No in body stabilization in the K-3. They could probably do it easily, but that won't help us until someone hacks the firmware or Ricoh listens to us. We've been whining for in body SR since they deactivate it in the K-30. Several cameras later... Nope, still nothing. Pentax is horrible at listening to customers.

You can use brighter C mount lenses with the GH2/3. And again, bigger pixels, thus more sensitive to light.

Look at the OM-D EM1 or whatever it's full name is, or the K-5. Those are your options with in body stabilization. Or just use the K-7.

I don't expect Pentax to fix it anytime soon.

Grispie: No kidding. You could claim that one video was directed by David Lynch, and no one would be surprised What was the in joke? What did I watch? It did stuck with me, so you were successful.

Sony is one to watch, Panasonic is doing great things, and Olympus is heading in the right direction too. Canon has great Video AF. Nikon and Pentax, the ones using the Fujitsu Milbeaut processor seem to be lagging behind a bit.
01-16-2014, 08:19 AM   #117
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I'll do a quick test indoors tonight of the K3 SR on 50p, where I noticed last time the jello was almost completely gone. But I have to reconfirm that...
50p does mean a higher shutter, not great for low light, but I'll use a 50 1.7 and the the K3 proved to give clean video up to 1600iso.

On that one David Lynch video:-)
Basically we had to make a short movie in one day and project it the next. So, upfront, I wanted to do sthing with all forms of "water" (rain, ice, vapour, bottled water, river,... name it, its all in the video) just to have footage to play with in post as I wanted to see how the K3 files would behave while grading. What we didn't know upfront, is that the teacher came up in the morning with that grey box (that you can see at the end of the video) and said: well, you'll have to use one of these as your main character and at the end it has to say (or written whatever..): "If I would have known, I would never have started". So we build a storyline where the plunger escaped, looking for nice places with water and then was confronted to the less pleasing side of water and freedom (rain, cars, mud, sleeping outside) and dreaming about how good life was in his former toilet...

So basically, the plunger concluded at the end of the story "if I would have known, I would never had escaped". That sentence emerged on screen at the end but I took it out for vimeo. The movie is a circle. He ends in that grey box, where he gets pulled out to make our movie (so back at the beginning..)

The title is a dutch expression (literally translated: "Pulled from the toilet") which actually means "this is complete nonsense".
We had lots of fun though. Remember that shot with the bottle of water quite early in the movie? I had the K3 set up on timelapse with 10 seconds in between. So everytime someone had 10 seconds to run to the bottle & have a nap... quite funny
01-16-2014, 08:36 AM   #118
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I would be shooting mainly on 1080/24 with a shutter around 1/50. Any chance you could show an example of that? Thanks!
01-16-2014, 08:41 AM   #119
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Haha, now I understand. I think had you left in the title it would have made more sense. You're at film school? Or taking some sort of film class? I only had lectures and seminars on film studies, a semester or two after me they started doing actual films... damn Still, loved analyzing movies.

This was a video I quickly shot with a K-3.


I did jerk the camera more than the K-5 SR can probably work with. I didn't see any stabilization in effect on the screen. Also wait for the part where I actually bothered to focus. (I was mostly testing some other issue found on the K-5 and K-3 in conjunction with the DA 50 1.8, where it changes the aperture in video mode when you change focus when you are not recording. Only happens with that lens/camera combo, tried a few DA 50 1.8, tried several other lenses). Others have found that the camera takes the video at a higher resolution (takes the full frame instead of just a crop), analyses it (disregarding the accelerometer), and stabilizes. You can also try having the camera on a tripod and moving what you are shooting around. That should be stabilized too. So I doubt the stabilization will work when the whole scene is moving. At least it will get confused...

Maybe what happened was that Fujitsu added the stabilization feature to their processor (remember it is not only used by Pentax, who have an accelerometer in all their cameras, including sensor based mechanical shake reduction), and Pentax engineers saw that and thought they'd just use that feature instead, since it won't be as audible on the recording. If they even tested the camera it happened at 50 fps, where the downsides are less obvious.

Maybe someone with connections to Pentax (Adam?) can ask them if there are any specific reasons for only having electronic SR in the camera, and inform them that there are some massive downsides to that in some, well, many situations. Being able to also use the mechanical SR would be very, very helpful and would add a selling point to the camera over other brands. Perhaps when you do an interview again...

You can also watch the other videos on my YouTube account, which show the K-5 SR doing its magic.

Last edited by kadajawi; 01-16-2014 at 08:46 AM.
01-16-2014, 08:49 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maverick96 Quote
I would be shooting mainly on 1080/24 with a shutter around 1/50. Any chance you could show an example of that? Thanks!
I'll film something following my cat around :-)
But I do expect wobbling at 24p!
The whole idea is that at 50p, you get much less jello and then conform it in post to 24p..
I'll do both and with a 50 1.7
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