Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-26-2013, 02:01 PM   #1
Site Supporter
Spodeworld's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Joisey
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,215
How much do you trust DxO Marks' tests?

Just asking, because according to DxO Marks, the Nikon D7100 edges out the K3 on image quality, although by a small margin and probably imperceptible to a non-robot.

Pentax K-3 Versus competition - DxOMark

11-26-2013, 02:11 PM   #2
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Slovenia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,174
Their measurements seem legit. The way they express them, however, can be a pure WTF?! sometimes.
11-26-2013, 02:17 PM   #3
Pentaxian
Fogel70's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,740
DxOMark don't really measure IQ, it only measure a few parameters of IQ.
For what they are I trust these tests, but they don't tell the whole story.
11-26-2013, 02:27 PM   #4
Pentaxian
Miguel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,722
QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
For what they are I trust these tests, but they don't tell the whole story.
Very well put. Though I find technical tests entertaining and occasionally educational, their value to me is minimal. I, for one, don't purchase a camera with the intent of its earning a high sensor score from lab tests. My purpose is photography: to make photographs.

M

11-26-2013, 02:31 PM   #5
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,418
QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
DxOMark don't really measure IQ, it only measure a few parameters of IQ.
For what they are I trust these tests, but they don't tell the whole story.

True.
11-26-2013, 02:32 PM   #6
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,770
Sometimes we may want to shoot the messenger, but DxO seem reliable and competent.

One criticism of them it is that they probably don't use a large enough sample size for their lens or body tests. It's not always clear whether they test 20 copies of each body or lens and are using the best sample as the basis of their tests, or they use an average, or only use one lens or body per test, with all the issues of sample variation that entails, especially for lenses.
11-26-2013, 02:35 PM   #7
Pentaxian
Bob from Aus's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,084
Only trust them when they give pentax the highest score.
11-26-2013, 02:38 PM   #8
Site Supporter
waterfall's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northern Minnesota
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,770
DXOMark

I prefer field tests with images. I cannot get my eyes around those weird patterns. Look like test patterns on TV from the 1950's. Probably are. I guess that ages me pretty accurately!

In reviews, I stare and read over and over on auto-focus issues (if any), CA issues, lens performance with full sun hitting the scene, color of images, saturation of images.

BTW, I am somewhat of a newbie of Lens Lust, having recently been attacked by it. So any lens I think I may want, I have to see sample pics, read user accounts, and then I compare to alternate lens choices. The test pattern images seem to my aging eyes just so much techie junk.

Show me field photos, please!

I suppose the DxoMark tests do accurately measure differences in lenses. I cannot see those differences in the tests.

waterfall

11-26-2013, 02:47 PM   #9
Pentaxian
RobA_Oz's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,312
We take a lot on trust, in terms of the objectivity and rigour of their testing procedures, and sample size is one thing people don't often think about, but which bothers me. You'd hope they would undertake testing of samples over a period of time to avoid batch problems and to comprehend minor software changes etc, but that's probably asking too much for a commercial enterprise to do. If our friend Falk Lumo were to do the same things, I reckon I'd be better assured of at least being told about the scope of testing and any associated caveats, if such were the case. As it is, I have no evidence to not trust DxO for what they produce but, as others have said, it isn't the whole story.
11-26-2013, 02:48 PM - 1 Like   #10
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 42,388
QuoteOriginally posted by Spodeworld Quote
Just asking, because according to DxO Marks, the Nikon D7100 edges out the K3 on image quality, although by a small margin and probably imperceptible to a non-robot.

Pentax K-3 Versus competition - DxOMark
Their tests don't factor in resolution, which is something you therefore have to look at on your own. For the most part, their metrics are great but they in no way to they replace field tests IMO

Nobody said the K-3's sensor had to be better than the D7100's- but it seems that the difference is negligible. The K-3 continues to have many advantages over the D7100, and the opposite applies as well.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com's high server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover those costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

11-26-2013, 02:54 PM - 1 Like   #11
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 15,766
I think DXO Mark is very trustworthy. When they say that the D7100 has 0.3 EV more dynamic range at iso 100, I think that is exactly what they measured. However, If you look at the numbers, being able to measure a difference doesn't mean that it will end up being something you can see in the real world. For instance, the "sports iso" score for the D7100 is 1256, while the sports score for the K3 is 1216. I don't believe for an instant that you could tell the difference.

The other thing that becomes apparent looking at the dynamic range graph is that Nikon fudges their iso numbers considerably, while Pentax iso numbers are pretty accurate. At iso 6400 Nikon D7100 measures 4516, while the Pentax K3 measures 6057. It still does appear that the Nikon has a hair more DR throughout the range, but that fudging certainly gives Nikon an added edge at most stated iso points.

I don't think DXO Mark tests for banding and that is one thing the Toshiba sensor seems more prone to do than the Sony sensor, for what it is worth.
11-26-2013, 03:03 PM   #12
Site Supporter
rbefly's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, Colorado
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,030
QuoteOriginally posted by Bob from Aus Quote
Only trust them when they give pentax the highest score
No problem there. That'll happen right after DPR gives Pentax the highest score. For anything.
Both these sites have a clear, unmistakable Canon/Nikon bias. Even when the numbers tell a different story, the 'conclusion'?
Occasionally, either one will use Sony (or occasionally Pentax) to chide Nikon/Canon for not matching the 'little guys' on a given feature. But again, all is forgiven (overlooked, ignored) when the final summary is reached. They pat the unwanted intruder on the head and shoo them away. Grownups only.
Usually it starts with "Despite the slightly higher score of (your choice, Sony, Fuji or Pentax) in this seldom-used (high ISO performance, frame rate, color rendition, detail, handling, body construction, handling, metering accuracy, weather resistance, your choice again) feature, over-all the Canon/Nikon is the clear winner."
And all is normal and right with the world. As they see it.
JMO, YMMV,
Ron

Last edited by rbefly; 11-26-2013 at 06:08 PM.
11-26-2013, 03:08 PM   #13
Site Supporter
Spodeworld's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Joisey
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,215
Original Poster
A lot of good feedback. My takeaway from the numbers is that the difference in dynamic range and high ISO performance, if accurate, would be too small to be noticeable by the typical humanoid.....
11-26-2013, 03:20 PM   #14
Senior Member




Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Surfside,FL
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 152
I do find the DXO measurements very useful, specially the dynamic range, and for those saying they are biased remember the K5 not long was on their list the best APS-C, and right below some FF and medium format bodies
11-26-2013, 03:27 PM   #15
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 15,766
QuoteOriginally posted by yygomez Quote
I do find the DXO measurements very useful, specially the dynamic range, and for those saying they are biased remember the K5 not long was on their list the best APS-C, and right below some FF and medium format bodies
The thing that made the K5 great (and better than other APS-C bodies with regard to dynamic range) was its phenomenal iso 80. For whatever reason, Pentax didn't offer that on the K3, I suppose because it wouldn't have actually improved the dynamic range at all. Still, even back then, I felt that the difference in the measurements between the K5 and the D7000 was not truly significant.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
dslr, dxo, k-3, k3, marks, pentax k-3, trust dxo
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much time do you spend on photography?? littledrawe Photographic Industry and Professionals 17 01-18-2014 11:01 AM
Points of sufficiency: do you really know how much is enough? baro-nite Photographic Industry and Professionals 14 09-19-2012 02:14 AM
How much post processing do you do? Katier Photographic Technique 30 07-27-2012 01:19 PM
How DxO Labs tests hot cameras like Canon's latest SLR gawan Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 3 04-20-2012 07:36 PM
How Much Do You Trust The Government mikemike General Talk 28 05-09-2011 01:46 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:24 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top