DPReview - no favors from them

normhead · 12-04-2013, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by mrNewt

Is this going to end-up into a Pentax is doomed discussion again!?

Pentax is doomed. I read it right here on the Pentax forum.

snake · 12-04-2013, 11:31 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mrNewt

Is this going to end-up into a Pentax is doomed discussion again!?

Might as well. Most won't give Pentax a chance because they can't tolerate that 'Ricoh' on the screen.

normhead · 12-04-2013, 11:42 AM

Given the number of customers Ricoh has and the number of customers Pentax has, I'm not sure putting Ricoh on the front wouldn't help sales. Someone do a marketing survey. Pentax is doomed… long live Ricoh.

mrNewt · 12-04-2013, 12:21 PM

I still believe Pentax will just become a line of cameras under Ricoh brand.
Ricoh will be up the top and then instead of big "K-3" will be "Pentax DLX" in smaller font and in time in bigger fonts... will just become P-DLX

Btw, I would rock a P-DLX.

Parallax · 12-04-2013, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by mrNewt

Is this going to end-up into a Pentax is doomed discussion again!?

Of course it is. It's a variation of Darwinism in action.

mrNewt · 12-04-2013, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

Of course it is. It's a variation of Darwinism in action.

Ahhh... Darwin... my best friend

Kunzite · 12-04-2013, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by snake

Might as well. Most won't give Pentax a chance because they can't tolerate that 'Ricoh' on the screen.

Isn't that just an excuse? I can't imagine why a Pentaxian would be happier with "Pentax's" 2011, than with "Ricoh's" 2013...
I expect that pretty much every product Pentax would launch next year will face opposition, for various motives (price is always a good one, then searching for every Ricoh label on Pentax-branded products).

Regarding DPReview, their studio samples are misaligned (if it's the positioning or the lens, I can't tell). You can see it by comparing the bottom-left and top-right corners.

**woodywesty** · 12-04-2013, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

It is neither short-sighted nor bean counter. Just as water flows to its natural level, capital flows to its most efficient use, the place where it has the highest marginal return. To force capital to do otherwise is a recipe for long-term decline . . . sort of like what happened to, well, Pentax. Without being snarky, if you want to shoot birds today you have other options. You have chosen to wait. I argue you will be rewarded if you do.

And all that cycles back to the installed base of K-mounts, which drives every decision Ricoh makes for Pentax. Colors on entry and mid-range? Does it sell more K-mounts? (we don't care what is wrapped around the mount - just get more K-mounts out there). K-500 for US and EU only? Does it sell more K-mounts? (K3) Halo APSc DSLR? Does it sell more K-mounts? Halo 24x36 DSLR? Does it sell more K-mounts?

There is some magic number of installed K-mounts at which 3P makers can sell their lenses to us. We don't know what the number is, nor how to get to it - but you can bet Ricoh knows, and you can bet they know because they've asked, and you can bet they've shared the outline of their business plan with the 3P makers so when certain targets are hit plans can be made.

Trust me. You will be happy.

Well, again I have to agree with you....

Like some I don't believe that Pentax DSLR's will disappear under Ricoh. It may as you indicate just take a good bit of time to build it up again. I have a great camera in the K3 so all I need is that birding lens. The Sigma 300mm 2.8 is a fine lens and I'm saving toward the purchase. I'm just waiting to see if Ricoh offers a 1.4 teleconvertor in the next year or if I have to start looking for the right (no longer made) Sigma 1.4 teleconvertor. Possibly in the next year Pentax will offer a competing fast 300mm but I sort of doubt it. If they did I'd sure look seriously at it. In the meantime I'll enjoy my new K3 brought to me by Ricoh...

**monochrome** · 12-04-2013, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by woodywesty

I'm just waiting to see if Ricoh offers a 1.4 teleconvertor in the next year

I put the odds better than 50/50 we'll have a 1-stop, 1.4x TC before 12/2014. The big question is how large an image circle it will cover

AFA a long f/4 lens, well, same big question.

RockvilleBob · 12-04-2013, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by woodywesty

Well, again I have to agree with you....

Like some I don't believe that Pentax DSLR's will disappear under Ricoh. It may as you indicate just take a good bit of time to build it up again. I have a great camera in the K3 so all I need is that birding lens. The Sigma 300mm 2.8 is a fine lens and I'm saving toward the purchase. I'm just waiting to see if Ricoh offers a 1.4 teleconvertor in the next year or if I have to start looking for the right (no longer made) Sigma 1.4 teleconvertor. Possibly in the next year Pentax will offer a competing fast 300mm but I sort of doubt it. If they did I'd sure look seriously at it. In the meantime I'll enjoy my new K3 brought to me by Ricoh...

I'm with you - looking to add one long lens for wildlife/birds. I do get excellent results with the K-3 and the DA*300. The extra resolution of the K-3 over the K-5 makes that lens a super-performer, it is almost as if I got a complimentary new lens with the K-3. The performance of the K-3/DA*300 is night and day compared to the K-5/DA*300. That said I am probably destined to save for some time to get the Sigma 500 or, if they make the new cameras in K Mount, the rumored Sigma 400 2.8. Combined with a TC the 400 2.8 would be terrific. I just need to a) sell the boss (wife) on spending even more money on camera stuff and b) hope new Sigma lenses get Pentax support - I hope someone at Ricoh is working hard to market to Sigma, real hard.

**woodywesty** · 12-04-2013, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by RockvilleBob

I'm with you - looking to add one long lens for wildlife/birds. I do get excellent results with the K-3 and the DA*300. The extra resolution of the K-3 over the K-5 makes that lens a super-performer, it is almost as if I got a complimentary new lens with the K-3. The performance of the K-3/DA*300 is night and day compared to the K-5/DA*300. That said I am probably destined to save for some time to get the Sigma 500 or, if they make the new cameras in K Mount, the rumored Sigma 400 2.8. Combined with a TC the 400 2.8 would be terrific. I just need to a) sell the boss (wife) on spending even more money on camera stuff and b) hope new Sigma lenses get Pentax support - I hope someone at Ricoh is working hard to market to Sigma, real hard.

We are for sure on the same page.... I'm guessing the Pentax DA*300 with a nice new Pentax teleconvertor would be good for maybe half the bird shots I'd like to get but the Sigma 300 2.8 would be even better. Wonder if a Sigma 400mm2.8 would be bigger/heavier than the Sigma 500mm??

**DDoram** · 12-04-2013, 03:33 PM

Don't bet on the Sigma 400 f2.8 being available in Pentax mount and if it was, it would be very pricey so hardly anyone could afford it.

Dale

Tom S. · 12-04-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by snake

With heavy-handed moderation, including over ridiculous requests, perhaps it could be workable.

The only heavy handed moderation on this forum involves dealing with a few select people who insist on breaking or ignoring the rules.

snake · 12-04-2013, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

The only heavy handed moderation on this forum involves dealing with a few select people who insist on breaking or ignoring the rules.

I don't know. Is this a moderator taking a shot?

If so, please keep it on topic. The thread has been quite constructive so far.

Tom S. · 12-04-2013, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by snake

I don't know. Is this a moderator taking a shot?

If so, please keep it on topic. The thread has been quite constructive so far.

You were the one who brought up heavy handed moderation, not me. Best if you let it alone at that.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Hey all, just over from DPReview	SRT201	Welcomes and Introductions	4	06-13-2012 08:09 AM
May 1st, 2012 A Day Without the 99% No Work – No School – No Housework – No Shopping	jogiba	General Talk	4	05-02-2012 02:48 AM
Why no dpreview review of the K-01?	DaveHolmes	Pentax K-01	55	03-28-2012 03:58 PM
Viewfinder Magnifier - Who uses them and how do you like them?	claimed4all	Pentax K-r	16	10-25-2011 05:41 AM
Nature No one likes them...	timstone	Post Your Photos!	8	05-09-2010 01:49 PM

12-04-2013, 11:28 AM	#31
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by mrNewt Is this going to end-up into a Pentax is doomed discussion again!? Pentax is doomed. I read it right here on the Pentax forum.

12-04-2013, 11:31 AM - 1 Like	#32
snake Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: NY/Germany Posts: 1,183	Originally posted by mrNewt Is this going to end-up into a Pentax is doomed discussion again!? Might as well. Most won't give Pentax a chance because they can't tolerate that 'Ricoh' on the screen.

12-04-2013, 11:42 AM	#33
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Given the number of customers Ricoh has and the number of customers Pentax has, I'm not sure putting Ricoh on the front wouldn't help sales. Someone do a marketing survey. Pentax is doomed… long live Ricoh.

12-04-2013, 12:21 PM	#34
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	I still believe Pentax will just become a line of cameras under Ricoh brand. Ricoh will be up the top and then instead of big "K-3" will be "Pentax DLX" in smaller font and in time in bigger fonts... will just become P-DLX Btw, I would rock a P-DLX.

12-04-2013, 12:31 PM	#35
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by mrNewt Is this going to end-up into a Pentax is doomed discussion again!? Of course it is. It's a variation of Darwinism in action.

12-04-2013, 12:33 PM	#36
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by Parallax Of course it is. It's a variation of Darwinism in action. Ahhh... Darwin... my best friend

12-04-2013, 12:52 PM	#37
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by snake Might as well. Most won't give Pentax a chance because they can't tolerate that 'Ricoh' on the screen. Isn't that just an excuse? I can't imagine why a Pentaxian would be happier with "Pentax's" 2011, than with "Ricoh's" 2013... I expect that pretty much every product Pentax would launch next year will face opposition, for various motives (price is always a good one, then searching for every Ricoh label on Pentax-branded products). Regarding DPReview, their studio samples are misaligned (if it's the positioning or the lens, I can't tell). You can see it by comparing the bottom-left and top-right corners.

12-04-2013, 12:52 PM	#38
woodywesty Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Northern Wisconsin Posts: 725	Originally posted by monochrome It is neither short-sighted nor bean counter. Just as water flows to its natural level, capital flows to its most efficient use, the place where it has the highest marginal return. To force capital to do otherwise is a recipe for long-term decline . . . sort of like what happened to, well, Pentax. Without being snarky, if you want to shoot birds today you have other options. You have chosen to wait. I argue you will be rewarded if you do. And all that cycles back to the installed base of K-mounts, which drives every decision Ricoh makes for Pentax. Colors on entry and mid-range? Does it sell more K-mounts? (we don't care what is wrapped around the mount - just get more K-mounts out there). K-500 for US and EU only? Does it sell more K-mounts? (K3) Halo APSc DSLR? Does it sell more K-mounts? Halo 24x36 DSLR? Does it sell more K-mounts? There is some magic number of installed K-mounts at which 3P makers can sell their lenses to us. We don't know what the number is, nor how to get to it - but you can bet Ricoh knows, and you can bet they know because they've asked, and you can bet they've shared the outline of their business plan with the 3P makers so when certain targets are hit plans can be made. Trust me. You will be happy. Well, again I have to agree with you.... Like some I don't believe that Pentax DSLR's will disappear under Ricoh. It may as you indicate just take a good bit of time to build it up again. I have a great camera in the K3 so all I need is that birding lens. The Sigma 300mm 2.8 is a fine lens and I'm saving toward the purchase. I'm just waiting to see if Ricoh offers a 1.4 teleconvertor in the next year or if I have to start looking for the right (no longer made) Sigma 1.4 teleconvertor. Possibly in the next year Pentax will offer a competing fast 300mm but I sort of doubt it. If they did I'd sure look seriously at it. In the meantime I'll enjoy my new K3 brought to me by Ricoh...

12-04-2013, 02:04 PM	#39
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by woodywesty I'm just waiting to see if Ricoh offers a 1.4 teleconvertor in the next year I put the odds better than 50/50 we'll have a 1-stop, 1.4x TC before 12/2014. The big question is how large an image circle it will cover AFA a long f/4 lens, well, same big question.

12-04-2013, 02:08 PM	#40
RockvilleBob Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lewes DE USA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,780 Original Poster	Originally posted by woodywesty Well, again I have to agree with you.... Like some I don't believe that Pentax DSLR's will disappear under Ricoh. It may as you indicate just take a good bit of time to build it up again. I have a great camera in the K3 so all I need is that birding lens. The Sigma 300mm 2.8 is a fine lens and I'm saving toward the purchase. I'm just waiting to see if Ricoh offers a 1.4 teleconvertor in the next year or if I have to start looking for the right (no longer made) Sigma 1.4 teleconvertor. Possibly in the next year Pentax will offer a competing fast 300mm but I sort of doubt it. If they did I'd sure look seriously at it. In the meantime I'll enjoy my new K3 brought to me by Ricoh... I'm with you - looking to add one long lens for wildlife/birds. I do get excellent results with the K-3 and the DA300. The extra resolution of the K-3 over the K-5 makes that lens a super-performer, it is almost as if I got a complimentary new lens with the K-3. The performance of the K-3/DA300 is night and day compared to the K-5/DA*300. That said I am probably destined to save for some time to get the Sigma 500 or, if they make the new cameras in K Mount, the rumored Sigma 400 2.8. Combined with a TC the 400 2.8 would be terrific. I just need to a) sell the boss (wife) on spending even more money on camera stuff and b) hope new Sigma lenses get Pentax support - I hope someone at Ricoh is working hard to market to Sigma, real hard.

12-04-2013, 02:35 PM	#41
woodywesty Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Northern Wisconsin Posts: 725	Originally posted by RockvilleBob I'm with you - looking to add one long lens for wildlife/birds. I do get excellent results with the K-3 and the DA300. The extra resolution of the K-3 over the K-5 makes that lens a super-performer, it is almost as if I got a complimentary new lens with the K-3. The performance of the K-3/DA300 is night and day compared to the K-5/DA300. That said I am probably destined to save for some time to get the Sigma 500 or, if they make the new cameras in K Mount, the rumored Sigma 400 2.8. Combined with a TC the 400 2.8 would be terrific. I just need to a) sell the boss (wife) on spending even more money on camera stuff and b) hope new Sigma lenses get Pentax support - I hope someone at Ricoh is working hard to market to Sigma, real hard. We are for sure on the same page.... I'm guessing the Pentax DA300 with a nice new Pentax teleconvertor would be good for maybe half the bird shots I'd like to get but the Sigma 300 2.8 would be even better. Wonder if a Sigma 400mm2.8 would be bigger/heavier than the Sigma 500mm??

12-04-2013, 03:33 PM	#42
DDoram Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 632	Don't bet on the Sigma 400 f2.8 being available in Pentax mount and if it was, it would be very pricey so hardly anyone could afford it. Dale

12-04-2013, 04:21 PM	#43
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by snake With heavy-handed moderation, including over ridiculous requests, perhaps it could be workable. The only heavy handed moderation on this forum involves dealing with a few select people who insist on breaking or ignoring the rules.

12-04-2013, 04:28 PM	#44
snake Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: NY/Germany Posts: 1,183	Originally posted by Tom S. The only heavy handed moderation on this forum involves dealing with a few select people who insist on breaking or ignoring the rules. I don't know. Is this a moderator taking a shot? If so, please keep it on topic. The thread has been quite constructive so far.

12-04-2013, 04:33 PM	#45
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by snake I don't know. Is this a moderator taking a shot? If so, please keep it on topic. The thread has been quite constructive so far. You were the one who brought up heavy handed moderation, not me. Best if you let it alone at that.