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12-05-2013, 06:27 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfg Quote
Well not exactly, your first sentence is:

and anyone who frequents IR reviews knows that the still life comparisons they show are SOOC jpegs, so at least by inference you are not just talking raws.



But my third sentence reads "I have downloaded the raw file from the K-3 at ISO 6400 and find that after applying optimum noise reduction in my raw processor (Photo Ninja), the detail from the cloth is almost completely lost." I should think that would have made it quite clear to anyone who read that far that I was referring to raw files, not jpegs, but I guess not.

Rob


Last edited by robgo2; 12-05-2013 at 07:42 PM.
12-05-2013, 06:42 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
You must lead a very sheltered life. As for me, I frequently find myself chasing my grandchildren around a somewhat dark living room, trying to catch them at the perfect moment in natural light. ISO 6400 is often required, especially since I am loathe to shoot wide open and risk OOF pics due to the shallow DOF. I have gotten some great images would have been impossible at lower ISOs. There was a time when I, too, thought that using high ISOs was absurd, but not any longer.

Rob
Ok, fair enough...but you do know that flashes with manual control and technique can take away most of the "flashy" look in dark situations.

QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Only wedding photography in dark churches AFAIK...or doing sports. In both cases, you want to keep your shutter speed up.
However, in those cases, you typically don't blow it up to 30x40" prints. You'll most likely do 11x14's at most I think...
I guess...but again, good flash technique works wonders.
12-05-2013, 07:13 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Ok, fair enough...but you do know that flashes with manual control and technique can take away most of the "flashy" look in dark situations.
I've heard of nazi priests banning flash during ceremonies...in dark churches...
12-05-2013, 07:45 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfg Quote
Well not exactly, your first sentence is:

and anyone who frequents IR reviews knows that the still life comparisons they show are SOOC jpegs, so at least by inference you are not just talking raws.

As many have done I have downloaded a high ISO k-3 raw and seen plenty of detail in the red fabric as long as I go easy on the colour/chroma noise slider in lightroom (for example).
As to your question of whether pentax raws are more susceptible than other cameras, one could easily download raws for the D7100, 70D etc and see, or maybe one of the other threads already has this?

QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Ok, fair enough...but you do know that flashes with manual control and technique can take away most of the "flashy" look in dark situations.
I never use a flash unless there is no other option. I do not doubt that there are techniques for making flash photography look natural, or at least pleasing, but they are mystery to me and are likely to remain so.

Rob

12-06-2013, 12:07 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
I've heard of nazi priests banning flash during ceremonies...in dark churches...
And blinding athletes during their race will quickly lead to the removal of your press privledges
12-06-2013, 05:40 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
I've heard of nazi priests banning flash during ceremonies...in dark churches...
Wow... "nazi priests"??? Poor choice of words there I think.

One of the first rules I read for wedding photographers was all about respecting the house rules. Not railing against them and insulting people.
12-06-2013, 06:31 AM   #37
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I don't understand how IR does it...


Welcome - download, please
here is K-5IIs at ISO3200
IMGP5810.DNG ? Yandex.Disk

Red? Any problem with structure of red? I don't see any
12-06-2013, 08:36 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by klkitchens Quote
Wow... "nazi priests"??? Poor choice of words there I think.

One of the first rules I read for wedding photographers was all about respecting the house rules. Not railing against them and insulting people.
LOL...yes, but you know what I mean...there are extremes at both ends.
I've heard of priests who didn't mention anything during rehearsal or consultations, and then during the ceremony, they tell the photographers to stop using flashes (nazi = this behavior, nazi politicians = ones who make inane/harsh rules that they expect you to follow but then exempt themselves from it, etc.)
Then you have the other extreme w/ inconsiderate photographers who just paparazzi (you know what I mean by that as well...the ones that go flash crazy all over them at close range during the ceremony) a wedding.

I didn't realize you couldn't use flash at sporting events, but that makes sense as well, though it's a lot easier spinning ISO up in daylight/sunlight (I've run my K20D at ISO2000 to get shutter speed in sunlight w/o issues and the sensor is a lot worse)...

12-06-2013, 10:42 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
I didn't realize you couldn't use flash at sporting events, but that makes sense as well, though it's a lot easier spinning ISO up in daylight/sunlight (I've run my K20D at ISO2000 to get shutter speed in sunlight w/o issues and the sensor is a lot worse)...
Does that include the thousands of spectators who are taking photos at sporting events with their cell phone cameras and puny flashes?

Rob
12-06-2013, 10:45 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
LOL...yes, but you know what I mean...there are extremes at both ends.
I've heard of priests who didn't mention anything during rehearsal or consultations, and then during the ceremony, they tell the photographers to stop using flashes (nazi = this behavior, nazi politicians = ones who make inane/harsh rules that they expect you to follow but then exempt themselves from it, etc.)
Then you have the other extreme w/ inconsiderate photographers who just paparazzi (you know what I mean by that as well...the ones that go flash crazy all over them at close range during the ceremony) a wedding.

I didn't realize you couldn't use flash at sporting events, but that makes sense as well, though it's a lot easier spinning ISO up in daylight/sunlight (I've run my K20D at ISO2000 to get shutter speed in sunlight w/o issues and the sensor is a lot worse)...
It's rare for a wedding photographer to attend the rehearsal so that's not where they would get their instruction on shooting rules. My impression is a responsible wedding photographer will check with the church long before the ceremony to understand what the rules are. Those that can't even do that much deserve to be tongue-lashed if they are doing things wrong in the ceremony.
12-06-2013, 11:01 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
It's rare for a wedding photographer to attend the rehearsal so that's not where they would get their instruction on shooting rules. My impression is a responsible wedding photographer will check with the church long before the ceremony to understand what the rules are. Those that can't even do that much deserve to be tongue-lashed if they are doing things wrong in the ceremony.
No disagreement from me

Finally found the story that reminded me of what I mentioned:
https://www.slrlounge.com/can-say-awkward-easily-avoidable-wedding-photography-mistakes

If you read the replies later on from the photographer at the event, he had consulted w/ the priest before hand...the priest must have had a bad day or got annoyed at the photographers, but it's funny that this is recorded and shared now (there were stories in the past, but no video of weird stuff like this)...
12-06-2013, 11:36 AM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
I'm sure that many on this forum are aware that Pentax DSLRs have always had problems showing detail in the bright red cloth in Imaging Resource's standard still life scene. This tends to occur at high ISOs. I have downloaded the raw file from the K-3 at ISO 6400 and find that after applying optimum noise reduction in my raw processor (Photo Ninja), the detail from the cloth is almost completely lost. (See attached screenshot of 50% enlargement below.) With the K-5II sample at ISO 6400, detail is still somewhat present.

So what is the explanation for the K-3's behavior in this situation, and is it a deal breaker?

Rob
The problem isn't the camera but the software you use.. the detail is there but your software decides to remove all detail in red.
Below how it could look like (this is rendered with my own raw viewer that also does NR using bilateral filtering.)
Attached Images
 
12-06-2013, 01:01 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jan rinze Quote
The problem isn't the camera but the software you use.
Exactly.
12-06-2013, 03:02 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by jan rinze Quote
The problem isn't the camera but the software you use.. the detail is there but your software decides to remove all detail in red.
Below how it could look like (this is rendered with my own raw viewer that also does NR using bilateral filtering.)
I guess that you are satisfied with the tons of noise that your software has left in the image. Many of us would not be. I think that we can all agree that the problem lies with removal of color noise by NR software. The question is whether other cameras and sensors have the same issue with Imaging Resource's red cloth as do Pentax cameras. IR's editors suggest that Pentax is perhaps a special case.

Rob
12-06-2013, 03:10 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Exactly.
The above image is an example of exceedingly poor noise reduction, which is why the red cloth shows so much detail. It's easy to accomplish this, if you choose to leave the noise largely untouched, in which case the choice of software is immaterial. I have yet to see anyone post a clean example with good retention of detail. Perhaps DxO 9's Prime NR can do the trick, but it does not yet support the K-3. I might give it a try on a K-5 sample from IR.

Rob
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