Lightroom 5.3 now sort of supports K3

Wayneheim · 12-13-2013, 01:17 AM

Just downloaded and installed Lightroom 5.3 and it says it supports k3 now. I'm having a weird issue that I've never noticed before with my other Pentax's. Some shots I take, when I go to view them in Lightroom, Lightroom is not displaying the white point "as shot" correctly. I shot some indoor birthday shots under compact florescent lights with other led lights in the background and birthday candles. I think I shot it in either auto white balance or the new multizone white balance. I'm thinking it was the miltizone. Well, when I view these images in Lightroom they are super green. If I switch the white point to florescent, then what I see in software fairly closely matches the camera lcd. (have to turn down the lcd brightness almost all the way to get them to match)

Later I shot a school play and I set the white point to florescent in camera and those come out right on the money.

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Wayne

rawr · 12-13-2013, 01:41 AM

How do those same images look when opened with the supplied Pentax Digital Camera Utility 5?

If PDCU works OK, it may be that LR still needs to learn about the new 'multizone WB', if that's what you were using on those problem images.

**mtngal** · 12-13-2013, 06:28 AM

I just downloaded the new ACR for CS6 and above. I noticed that there's no update for LR 4, so it looks like I may have to either use Bridge from now on or else upgrade my computer to Lion (or Maverick) so that I can run LR5 (sigh).

What you are describing is what I saw with the new multi-AWB using LR4 when I first got the camera. Lightroom didn't know where to put the white balance so it left it at a consistent but weird value. I didn't think about keeping a grey card with me all the time, which would be the easy way of dealing with that. I haven't tried using multi-AWB since, I was hoping that when the new ACR came out it would recognize it. The jpg versions of the pictures were excellent!

Wayneheim · 12-13-2013, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by rawr

How do those same images look when opened with the supplied Pentax Digital Camera Utility 5?

If PDCU works OK, it may be that LR still needs to learn about the new 'multizone WB', if that's what you were using on those problem images.

Pdcu 5 doesn't work either. Now I'm not an expert with that software. Nightmarish to use but the jpg preview matches the camera but when you go to edit raw it's off too. Under white balance there is no option for multi light so loading as shot in camera is off. Setting to auto white is better and setting to silkys balance is most like the jpg. Very frustrating! What's the point in having a metering option tfor nothing can read except the camera or if it only works on jpg images, only make it an option there. I wish it worked cause the white ballance in this mode is amazing...... In the camera preview. Don't forget to turn your LCD on the camera down almost all the way or you will never come close to what the camera is showing outside the camera.

Wayneheim · 12-13-2013, 04:06 PM

Here is a screen grab of a quick test file I did. On the left is the DCU5 jpg preview and on the right is the same image with no edits in the "laboratory" view. The laboratory view is what I get in Lightroom as well. It was shot with multi auto white balance. Apparently the only way to use this is to convert a picture in camera or extensive adjustments in DCU5 or Lightroom.

Quicksand · 12-13-2013, 05:18 PM - **1 Like**

Mmm, chocolate mint!

rawr · 12-13-2013, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by Wayneheim

Here is a screen grab of a quick test file I did.

The Ricoh description of this WB mode in the GXR is:

Quote:

"The GXR segregates the image into multiple areas and applies the optimum white balance to each. For example, in cases such as where a person is photographed with flash in a room illuminated by incandescent light, even if the subject and background have different color temperatures, both are reproduced with natural colors."

And for the GR they say:

Quote:

"When multiple light sources are mixed together, such as sunlight/shade and flash, the camera automatically optimizes the white balance to match each of the separate areas of light. [Default setting]"

But they do say:

"[Multi-P AUTO] is set by default. If the white balance is not how you thought
it would be when shooting an object of a single color or when shooting un-
der multiple light sources, you can change the setting."

I'm not sure how this would be recorded in RAW. Essentially it seems like some in-camera post-capture image processing needs to be done to use this mode, which sounds to me like it's a JPG only mode. But both the GXR and GR seem to record RAWs with this mode.

I wonder how Lightroom handles GR images shot with this WB mode? Since this is the default GR AWB mode, LR must be able to handle it for the GR. And if LR can do it for the GR, it should be able to do it for the K-3. Ditto for the Pentax software.

**wizofoz** · 12-13-2013, 07:21 PM

I think it is a function of the new WB mode. I have LR 5.3, C1 pro, DXO pro 9, all of these exhibit a 'green sheen' when using the new multi zone WB. I also recently bought ACDsee and that seems to handle the K-3 files better. I think the software is seeing something akin to flourescent WB from the multi zone WB

DXO say they are K-3 compatible, but I have confirmed in email with them that they are referring only to JPEG files, and that they will relese a raw compatibility update in jan '14

lister6520 · 12-14-2013, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by rawr

.....

I'm not sure how this would be recorded in RAW. Essentially it seems like some in-camera post-capture image processing needs to be done to use this mode, which sounds to me like it's a JPG only mode. But both the GXR and GR seem to record RAWs with this mode.

....
.

White balance is always a post processing thing (well it should be). The white balance setting on the camera does not affect the recorded raw image in any way. The only reason it affects what you see in LR is because LR looks at the exif data to see what WB you selected when shooting the picture and sets the WB sliders accordingly.

I have confirmed this for the K-3 by shooting the same picture with different WB settings and in each of them (including multi AWB) if I manually set the sliders on LR to the same position for each photo I get the exact same result. In other words the only difference is where LR placed the temperature and tint sliders when importing the photo.

I actually leave the camera in multi AWB almost all the time, including flash even though I shoot RAW+jPEG and usually use only the RAW. In LR I just select all the images and apply Auto or Daylight to the whole lot and then tweak from there. I find that using the normal AWB or manuale white balance modes I still have to tweak so I might as well tweak from LRs auto rathr than the camera's.

In other words I just ignore what the camera is doing with white balance. So why the multi-AWB? Well I find that it gives a very good result on the LCD but also in some difficult situations it gets better results than I can manage to get in PP so I would in such cases use the JPEG instead of the RAW and post process that.

Wayneheim · 12-14-2013, 09:09 AM

Instead of using the jpg, can't you convert in camera raw to a gig file? It should apply all your jpg settings to the tiff file as well.

phreon · 12-14-2013, 09:28 AM

Fwiw, Raw Therapee seems to get the K3's white balance right.

lister6520 · 12-14-2013, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Wayneheim

Instead of using the jpg, can't you convert in camera raw to a gig file? It should apply all your jpg settings to the tiff file as well.

Wow, would you believe it - I hadn't even noticed that the in camera raw processor could output TIFF.

Thanks for pointing it out ! The TIFF will surely be much better suited to PP than JPEG.

rawr · 12-14-2013, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by lister6520

I hadn't even noticed that the in camera raw processor could output TIFF.

Perhaps a reason for this may be that while this feature really exists in the K-3 (just like it does with the K-5 and other previous Pentaxes), the K-3 manual says only JPEGs can be saved via in-camera RAW processing. No TIFFs for you, according to the K-3 manual, even though the option is there on the menu.

The manual seems to have undergone some minor revisions over time, but they still have not corrected this.

Wayneheim · 12-15-2013, 10:10 PM

Every version back to the k10 has been able to save tiffs in camera.

**Mutters** · 12-16-2013, 05:17 AM

As does the *istD.

Although its TIFFs are based on the in-camera jpeg - not good.

Don't know how later models do the TIFF conversion.

12-13-2013, 01:17 AM	#1
Wayneheim New Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 15	Lightroom 5.3 now sort of supports K3 Just downloaded and installed Lightroom 5.3 and it says it supports k3 now. I'm having a weird issue that I've never noticed before with my other Pentax's. Some shots I take, when I go to view them in Lightroom, Lightroom is not displaying the white point "as shot" correctly. I shot some indoor birthday shots under compact florescent lights with other led lights in the background and birthday candles. I think I shot it in either auto white balance or the new multizone white balance. I'm thinking it was the miltizone. Well, when I view these images in Lightroom they are super green. If I switch the white point to florescent, then what I see in software fairly closely matches the camera lcd. (have to turn down the lcd brightness almost all the way to get them to match) Later I shot a school play and I set the white point to florescent in camera and those come out right on the money. Any suggestion would be appreciated. Wayne

12-13-2013, 04:06 PM	#5
Wayneheim New Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 15 Original Poster	Here is a screen grab of a quick test file I did. On the left is the DCU5 jpg preview and on the right is the same image with no edits in the "laboratory" view. The laboratory view is what I get in Lightroom as well. It was shot with multi auto white balance. Apparently the only way to use this is to convert a picture in camera or extensive adjustments in DCU5 or Lightroom. Attached Images

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12-13-2013, 01:41 AM	#2
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	How do those same images look when opened with the supplied Pentax Digital Camera Utility 5? If PDCU works OK, it may be that LR still needs to learn about the new 'multizone WB', if that's what you were using on those problem images.

12-13-2013, 06:28 AM	#3
mtngal Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Wherever I’m Parked Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,003	I just downloaded the new ACR for CS6 and above. I noticed that there's no update for LR 4, so it looks like I may have to either use Bridge from now on or else upgrade my computer to Lion (or Maverick) so that I can run LR5 (sigh). What you are describing is what I saw with the new multi-AWB using LR4 when I first got the camera. Lightroom didn't know where to put the white balance so it left it at a consistent but weird value. I didn't think about keeping a grey card with me all the time, which would be the easy way of dealing with that. I haven't tried using multi-AWB since, I was hoping that when the new ACR came out it would recognize it. The jpg versions of the pictures were excellent!

12-13-2013, 06:45 AM	#4
Wayneheim New Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 15 Original Poster	Originally posted by rawr How do those same images look when opened with the supplied Pentax Digital Camera Utility 5? If PDCU works OK, it may be that LR still needs to learn about the new 'multizone WB', if that's what you were using on those problem images. Pdcu 5 doesn't work either. Now I'm not an expert with that software. Nightmarish to use but the jpg preview matches the camera but when you go to edit raw it's off too. Under white balance there is no option for multi light so loading as shot in camera is off. Setting to auto white is better and setting to silkys balance is most like the jpg. Very frustrating! What's the point in having a metering option tfor nothing can read except the camera or if it only works on jpg images, only make it an option there. I wish it worked cause the white ballance in this mode is amazing...... In the camera preview. Don't forget to turn your LCD on the camera down almost all the way or you will never come close to what the camera is showing outside the camera.

12-13-2013, 05:18 PM - 1 Like	#6
Quicksand Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area) Posts: 1,519	Mmm, chocolate mint!

12-13-2013, 07:00 PM	#7
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Wayneheim Here is a screen grab of a quick test file I did. The Ricoh description of this WB mode in the GXR is: Quote: "The GXR segregates the image into multiple areas and applies the optimum white balance to each. For example, in cases such as where a person is photographed with flash in a room illuminated by incandescent light, even if the subject and background have different color temperatures, both are reproduced with natural colors." And for the GR they say: Quote: "When multiple light sources are mixed together, such as sunlight/shade and flash, the camera automatically optimizes the white balance to match each of the separate areas of light. [Default setting]" But they do say: "[Multi-P AUTO] is set by default. If the white balance is not how you thought it would be when shooting an object of a single color or when shooting un- der multiple light sources, you can change the setting." I'm not sure how this would be recorded in RAW. Essentially it seems like some in-camera post-capture image processing needs to be done to use this mode, which sounds to me like it's a JPG only mode. But both the GXR and GR seem to record RAWs with this mode. I wonder how Lightroom handles GR images shot with this WB mode? Since this is the default GR AWB mode, LR must be able to handle it for the GR. And if LR can do it for the GR, it should be able to do it for the K-3. Ditto for the Pentax software.

12-13-2013, 07:21 PM	#8
wizofoz Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Melbourne, Outer east. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,695	I think it is a function of the new WB mode. I have LR 5.3, C1 pro, DXO pro 9, all of these exhibit a 'green sheen' when using the new multi zone WB. I also recently bought ACDsee and that seems to handle the K-3 files better. I think the software is seeing something akin to flourescent WB from the multi zone WB DXO say they are K-3 compatible, but I have confirmed in email with them that they are referring only to JPEG files, and that they will relese a raw compatibility update in jan '14

12-14-2013, 02:26 AM	#9
lister6520 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 733	Originally posted by rawr ..... I'm not sure how this would be recorded in RAW. Essentially it seems like some in-camera post-capture image processing needs to be done to use this mode, which sounds to me like it's a JPG only mode. But both the GXR and GR seem to record RAWs with this mode. .... . White balance is always a post processing thing (well it should be). The white balance setting on the camera does not affect the recorded raw image in any way. The only reason it affects what you see in LR is because LR looks at the exif data to see what WB you selected when shooting the picture and sets the WB sliders accordingly. I have confirmed this for the K-3 by shooting the same picture with different WB settings and in each of them (including multi AWB) if I manually set the sliders on LR to the same position for each photo I get the exact same result. In other words the only difference is where LR placed the temperature and tint sliders when importing the photo. I actually leave the camera in multi AWB almost all the time, including flash even though I shoot RAW+jPEG and usually use only the RAW. In LR I just select all the images and apply Auto or Daylight to the whole lot and then tweak from there. I find that using the normal AWB or manuale white balance modes I still have to tweak so I might as well tweak from LRs auto rathr than the camera's. In other words I just ignore what the camera is doing with white balance. So why the multi-AWB? Well I find that it gives a very good result on the LCD but also in some difficult situations it gets better results than I can manage to get in PP so I would in such cases use the JPEG instead of the RAW and post process that.

12-14-2013, 09:09 AM	#10
Wayneheim New Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 15 Original Poster	Instead of using the jpg, can't you convert in camera raw to a gig file? It should apply all your jpg settings to the tiff file as well.

12-14-2013, 09:28 AM	#11
phreon Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 72	Fwiw, Raw Therapee seems to get the K3's white balance right.

12-14-2013, 09:57 AM	#12
lister6520 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 733	Originally posted by Wayneheim Instead of using the jpg, can't you convert in camera raw to a gig file? It should apply all your jpg settings to the tiff file as well. Wow, would you believe it - I hadn't even noticed that the in camera raw processor could output TIFF. Thanks for pointing it out ! The TIFF will surely be much better suited to PP than JPEG.

12-14-2013, 10:15 AM	#13
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by lister6520 I hadn't even noticed that the in camera raw processor could output TIFF. Perhaps a reason for this may be that while this feature really exists in the K-3 (just like it does with the K-5 and other previous Pentaxes), the K-3 manual says only JPEGs can be saved via in-camera RAW processing. No TIFFs for you, according to the K-3 manual, even though the option is there on the menu. The manual seems to have undergone some minor revisions over time, but they still have not corrected this.

12-15-2013, 10:10 PM	#14
Wayneheim New Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 15 Original Poster	Every version back to the k10 has been able to save tiffs in camera.

12-16-2013, 05:17 AM	#15
Mutters Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 262	As does the *istD. Although its TIFFs are based on the in-camera jpeg - not good. Don't know how later models do the TIFF conversion.