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12-27-2013, 12:02 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dariusz Quote
Hi Ron and thanks for your reply.

There is some inconsistency though. Let me take as an example neutral here make of Nikon. In 2006 Nikon was using CCDs across the whole of its range of cameras. Except one - the top of the range, the most expensive D2Xs. It used CMOS. Were they using CMOS because they wanted to save bucks on the most extravagant model of their whole range? I'm not convinced.
Image sensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

12-27-2013, 12:21 PM   #17
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AFAIK, it's the sensor from the Sony NEX7...
12-27-2013, 12:32 PM   #18
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CMOS sensors started out as cheapie rubbish sensors much worse than CCD and over the years became better than CCD in a lot of ways, so there's bound to be a lot of historical arguments as to which is best depending on the year of manufacture.
12-27-2013, 03:19 PM   #19
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Sensor Wars?

Hallo Dariusz,
If you check the link provided by Boriscleto, you'll see pretty clearly what happened; Between 2005-2006 (and somewhat into 07) the changeover from CCD to CMOS occurred. Nikon had been making only APS-C-format DSLRs and the next model following the D2Xs was the first Full Frame Nikon DSLR, the D3.
Interestingly, Nikon had also been making their own sensors until then; The 12Mp sensor used (in cropped format) and the FF sensor in the D3, weren't Nikon-made, they were Sonys.
Apparently, Nikon thought enough of the Sony sensor (CMOS) to put it into the top-line cropped format camera, and another, large-format Sony CMOS sensor into their flagship FF (FX, in Nikon-speak) body.
Was that the time period when the CMOS finally 'caught' up to the CCD in performance? I don't know, but apparently Nikon thought so. Perhaps the CCD sensor in full frame format would have been prohibitively expensive; Maybe Nikon wasn't geared up to make a sensor that large, but Sony was, in CMOS only.
We do know that the 10Mp to 12Mp CCD in 2006-7 was the last gasp of CCD's in DSLR's. By the end of the decade, virtually all DSLR sensors, regardless of format, were (and still are) CMOS. Pentax, Nikon and Canon all went in that direction.
So, to pick one camera from the transitional period, (one that was soon replaced) and try to make a valid CCD vs CMOS evaluation is very tricky. As SteveB said, the overview of CMOS's at that time was that they were cheap and lower-performance sensors.
Views and opinons don't change overnight; While initial CD sales were booming, sales of LP's still existed. Some embrace a change, others resist it.
Since the sensor was (and still is) one of the single most expensive components of a DSLR, any substantial reduction of cost will be reflected in the final price. With Nikon and Canon so closely matched at price points, the CMOS may well have been the only way Nikon could produce a FF body that was competitive with the already-existing Canon FF.
Ron

12-27-2013, 03:44 PM   #20
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8 or so years is an eternity in technological evolution. For instance, the iPhone was introduced June 29, 2007. I don't even remember life before iPhone.

My K10d with a 10.2 Mp CCD sensor was introduced in November 2006
My Olympus E20-n with a 5 Mp CCD (I believe) sensor late in 2001.
The Minolta DiMAGE 7 was the standard-bearing digital camera at the time.
12-27-2013, 04:43 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I don't even remember life before iPhone.
Exaggeration???

I remember using 5 1/4" floppies on Apples long before Jonny Ive came along!
12-27-2013, 05:18 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Exaggeration???

I remember using 5 1/4" floppies on Apples long before Jonny Ive came along!

Hah, floppies....bah, whippersnappers.....

Core memory was a fancy innovation, punch-cards a real advance, and I have actually used mercury-delay-lines.....

Now, get off my lawn
12-28-2013, 01:52 AM   #23
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Before iPhone, people had a life. Now they're all posting on Facebook pictures of their meals and whatever
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12-28-2013, 02:15 AM   #24
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CMOS has completey surpassed CCD in DSLRs. A chief advantange is that a great amount of low-power signal processing can be performed on the sensor chip. For example, Sony Exmor technology in the K-5 has a separate ADC for each column on the sensor: that's approx. 4,950 ADCs included on the sensor. Exmor technology also uses both Digital CDS (correlated double sampling), as well as Analogue CDS, which significantly reduces the buildup of noise.

http://www.sony.net/pressroom/sonytec/Exmor.html

Do yourself a favour and watch the CCD & CMOS video below from a 2009 Sony Pro Video engineering presentation.

VideON | Search Results - ccd

If you just want to watch the bit about Exmor, click on the video navigation bar to get to 22:00 and watch from there to about 29:47. But watching the whole 50 min video is worthwhile for laying a good foundation to understand why CMOS, (still in the ascendency at the time), became the dominant sensor technology.

Dan.

Last edited by dosdan; 12-28-2013 at 08:10 AM.
12-28-2013, 02:18 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Before iPhone, people had a life. Now they're all posting on Facebook pictures of their meals and whatever
My memories starts at 8" floppies and cassette tapes; I feel like a youngster

Facebook, what's that? Some sort of PentaxForums, but for food photographers......?
12-28-2013, 06:45 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Before iPhone, people had a life. Now they're all posting on Facebook pictures of their meals and whatever
My memories starts at 8" floppies and cassette tapes; I feel like a youngster
Only older people post on facebook, most young people don't use facebook anymore.
Young users see Facebook as 'dead and buried' - Telegraph
12-28-2013, 07:12 AM   #27
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I'm not a huge fan of the brand per se (memory stick anyone?), but Sony has always been at the forefront of imaging technology. There's a reason why their video cameras outnumber all other brands in professional video production settings. It's almost a given any TV news crew you see will be carrying a Sony camera (even back to the Betacam days). Look in most studios or even the Olympics and you'll find Sony cameras. Even the sensors in my fantastically sensitive Samsung security camera (modified for astro-imaging) and what's in the latest GoPro Hero 3 Black (another amazing camera) are Sonys.

Last edited by phreon; 12-28-2013 at 07:28 AM.
12-28-2013, 09:23 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Exaggeration???

I remember using 5 1/4" floppies on Apples long before Jonny Ive came along!
I found a box in my cellar packed with those. Another with some HD disks. I'd love to know what's on them - I do have an external 3 1/4" drive with a USB port, but the big ones I'll never know.
12-28-2013, 09:32 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by phreon Quote
I'm not a huge fan of the brand per se (memory stick anyone?), but Sony has always been at the forefront of imaging technology. There's a reason why their video cameras outnumber all other brands in professional video production settings. It's almost a given any TV news crew you see will be carrying a Sony camera (even back to the Betacam days). Look in most studios or even the Olympics and you'll find Sony cameras. Even the sensors in my fantastically sensitive Samsung security camera (modified for astro-imaging) and what's in the latest GoPro Hero 3 Black (another amazing camera) are Sonys.
Truth. Many network Remote / Breaking Teams carry 5D's instead but they're hard to focus so videographers don't like them. One Network News Anchor has become so enamored of the color profile in the 5D that the Network emulates it for live studio news shot on Sony studio cams.
12-28-2013, 09:39 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Truth. Many network Remote / Breaking Teams carry 5D's instead but they're hard to focus so videographers don't like them. One Network News Anchor has become so enamored of the color profile in the 5D that the Network emulates it for live studio news shot on Sony studio cams.
Ron Burgundy is that picky?
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