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01-03-2014, 03:14 PM - 3 Likes   #31
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DPR really does work hard to maximize the failings of non-Canon/Nikon cameras. We will see what they say about the K3, but my feeling is that they will kill it with faint praise, saying things like "It is a great camera if you already have a line up of Pentax glass and can deal with its limitations with regard to flash, antiquated menus, slim lens line up, and behind the times auto focus." All the while, they will ignore things like build, ergonomics, shake reduction in camera, frames per second and other areas where Pentax trounces cameras like the D7100.

There aren't any bad SLRs out there right now, but it really does seem as though DP Review picks their winners before they do their reviews.

01-04-2014, 09:29 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
DPR really does work hard to maximize the failings of non-Canon/Nikon cameras. We will see what they say about the K3, but my feeling is that they will kill it with faint praise, saying things like "It is a great camera if you already have a line up of Pentax glass and can deal with its limitations with regard to flash, antiquated menus, slim lens line up, and behind the times auto focus." All the while, they will ignore things like build, ergonomics, shake reduction in camera, frames per second and other areas where Pentax trounces cameras like the D7100.

There aren't any bad SLRs out there right now, but it really does seem as though DP Review picks their winners before they do their reviews.
The overall verdict normally amounts to something like this: "A great camera for Pentax users". And it's not only DPR who do this.

Happily, there ARE other reviewers who see otherwise, and say so.
01-04-2014, 09:34 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by KDAFA Quote
The overall verdict normally amounts to something like this: "A great camera for Pentax users". And it's not only DPR who do this.

Happily, there ARE other reviewers who see otherwise, and say so.
Conversely, can one conceivably imagine it being said: "A great camera for existing Nikon users"; or "A great camera which warrants the attention of existing Canon shooters"?
01-04-2014, 09:51 AM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by KDAFA Quote
Conversely, can one conceivably imagine it being said: "A great camera for existing Nikon users"; or "A great camera which warrants the attention of existing Canon shooters"?
Hello KADFA,
That's certainly the other extreme, and you make a good point, we'll likely never see statements like that, especially on a forum like DPR, so beholden to Canikon.
So, the K-3 is great for Pentax users and probably (certainly, never in a million years, unquestionably) won't attract any dedicated Nikon or Canon users, although they may wish their brand offered some of the same features or value.
Both ends covered. How about the middle? The many new, first-time or 'Kit' owners, not tied into a system yet? I'd guess that's a bigger market than the extremely brand-dedicated users, judging by the starter or kit packages sold daily.
If they see that the K-3 is a great value and the lower-priced Pentax bodies offer good performance at reasonable prices, not deliberately crippled like Canikon, it may present a viable option. But that would take a more fair and unbiased review evaluation than 'Good for Pentax users'. The unspoken first word there is 'only'.
There's a difference.
Ron

01-04-2014, 10:04 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
Hello KADFA,
That's certainly the other extreme, and you make a good point, we'll likely never see statements like that, especially on a forum like DPR, so beholden to Canikon.
So, the K-3 is great for Pentax users and probably (certainly, never in a million years, unquestionably) won't attract any dedicated Nikon or Canon users, although they may wish their brand offered some of the same features or value.
Both ends covered. How about the middle? The many new, first-time or 'Kit' owners, not tied into a system yet? I'd guess that's a bigger market than the extremely brand-dedicated users, judging by the starter or kit packages sold daily.
If they see that the K-3 is a great value and the lower-priced Pentax bodies offer good performance at reasonable prices, not deliberately crippled like Canikon, it may present a viable option. But that would take a more fair and unbiased review evaluation than 'Good for Pentax users'. The unspoken first word there is 'only'.
There's a difference.
Ron
Precisely.

But there ARE other reviewers who see differently, and they say so - sometimes with great enthusiasm, I might add. Indeed, DPR are not the be all and end all of reviewers.

And talking about Pentax not being likely to attract existing Nikon users, do check out on this very forum a thread entitled "K-3 comparable to D800", started by a long time, professional Nikon user!

Last edited by KDAFA; 01-04-2014 at 10:13 AM.
01-05-2014, 05:45 PM - 2 Likes   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by KDAFA Quote
But there ARE other reviewers who see differently, and they say so - sometimes with great enthusiasm, I might add. Indeed, DPR are not the be all and end all of reviewers.
DPReview is most certainly not the be all and end all of all review sites.

Their scoring system does not work (unless you assume that they deliberately rig values to degrade Pentax DSLRs, for instance) and they do embarrassing things like evaluating the dynamic range of a camera by essentially just looking at the JPG tone curve the in-camera engine uses.

However, they reach a large amount of readers and I'm convinced their verdicts and rankings influence a lot of purchasing decisions. This is why I feel it makes sense to write to them if you feel they haven't done their work.

Sometimes they even respond. For instance, Shawn Barnett added "Built-in sensor-shift shake reduction effectively stabilizes all mountable lenses" as a bullet point to the "Pros" in the Conclusions of the K-5 II review after I argued that this should be mentioned in the Conclusions. They did not respond to other, equally valid, suggestions/questions, but at least providing feedback to them made a difference.
01-06-2014, 08:30 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
DPReview is most certainly not the be all and end all of all review sites.

Their scoring system does not work (unless you assume that they deliberately rig values to degrade Pentax DSLRs, for instance) and they do embarrassing things like evaluating the dynamic range of a camera by essentially just looking at the JPG tone curve the in-camera engine uses.

However, they reach a large amount of readers and I'm convinced their verdicts and rankings influence a lot of purchasing decisions. This is why I feel it makes sense to write to them if you feel they haven't done their work.

Sometimes they even respond. For instance, Shawn Barnett added "Built-in sensor-shift shake reduction effectively stabilizes all mountable lenses" as a bullet point to the "Pros" in the Conclusions of the K-5 II review after I argued that this should be mentioned in the Conclusions. They did not respond to other, equally valid, suggestions/questions, but at least providing feedback to them made a difference.
Yes, I applaud this sort of thing you and others are doing as regards DPR. And it's indeed encouraging to see folks like Shawn responding.

Shall be interesting to see their K-3 review...
01-06-2014, 08:51 AM   #38
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DPR certainly can't be afraid to give Pentax a fair shake - they're no threat to the business model. They're tiny.

This all makes me wonder what elixir would change DPR. What do Canon, Nikon, Sony, Oly and Fuji do that Pentax doesn't? Can anyone hazard a guess?

01-06-2014, 09:23 AM   #39
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Did it occur to anybody that, regardless of their native camera brand (or any inherent agenda that might entail), the voters actually thought the K-3 was the best DSLR of 2013?

Pentaxian cynicism borders on self-loathing.
01-06-2014, 10:02 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by tzeentchiangod Quote
Pentaxian cynicism borders on self-loathing.
That's a pretty harsh statement. Most of the posters here seem to feel that non-Pentax users did vote for the camera in large numbers. The comments on the 'Winners' page would bear this out, several people stated that they own another brand but thought the K-3 was the best overall new DSLR.
The rest of what you call Pentax cynicism is directed at the DPR site, not the fact that the K-3 won this poll.
And well deserved.
Ron
01-06-2014, 11:03 AM - 1 Like   #41
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DPR is rabidly Canikon. To a ridiculous degree. That's why we're critical & mistrusting of DPR. I think most Pentax shooters will be pleased to see "our" flagship camera at the helm, but DPR's review, when it comes, will be filled with backhanded compliments & veiled disses. And we know it.
01-07-2014, 11:31 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
That's a pretty harsh statement. Most of the posters here seem to feel that non-Pentax users did vote for the camera in large numbers. The comments on the 'Winners' page would bear this out, several people stated that they own another brand but thought the K-3 was the best overall new DSLR.
The rest of what you call Pentax cynicism is directed at the DPR site, not the fact that the K-3 won this poll.
And well deserved.
Ron
+1. The so-called cynicism is not directed at the voters.
01-07-2014, 11:37 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by dansamy Quote
DPR is rabidly Canikon. To a ridiculous degree. That's why we're critical & mistrusting of DPR. I think most Pentax shooters will be pleased to see "our" flagship camera at the helm, but DPR's review, when it comes, will be filled with backhanded compliments & veiled disses. And we know it.
+1. That's why I mentioned earlier, it'll be interesting to see how their K-3 review turns out. The camera is clearly good, the voters have spoken, now it's the reviewers turn, but historically they have always seemed to have a problem acknowledging Pentax, in the sense of placing it on equal standing with Canon/Nikon.

One can always go on arguing that DPR TRULY cannot do that because they truly don't see Pentax worthy of it, but many here would not buy that explanation at all......
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