Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-08-2014, 07:39 AM - 1 Like   #1
Pentaxian
bdery's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec city, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,794
D7100, K-3, sharpness and image stabilization

I've been happily shooting with my K-3 for a while now, in blissful ignorance of a truth known by every Nikon user using the internet...

Did you know that 24MP sensors suck?

Apparently it's impossible to handhold your camera with such a sensor, it has so much resolution that it captures every tiny photographer's movement! Even using the best and sharpest glass there is, most shots turn out having motion blur! D7100 users are looking at the older D7000 with envy.

Amazing.

the only way to avoid this problem (which is setting forums on fire) is to either use a really fast shutter speed or a tripod.

It's also apparently much less if an issue if you use an image stabilized lens, but for some reason Nikon users did not catch up the apparent link between their problem and this simple fact. Maybe because D7100 users tend to get fast, expensive glass, and not all of that glass has stabilization. Users are complaining everywhere about how 24MP is evil, a bad thing, misbehaving and destroying their beautiful images (I'm not kidding). A Nikonian colleague asked me if I had heard of the problem with the K-3 and if I saw it myself. I said no, oblivious to the fact that my camera's sensor should be worse than it is.

Now, my job is optical designer, and I'm pretty good at breaking down problems and seeing possible causes/solutions. In this case, the only main difference between the two systems is the built-in SR in the K-3.

What do you know? It appears that the camera performance we take for granted is actually very hard to obtain with competing systems lacking SR.

I for one find this a tad funny.

01-08-2014, 08:08 AM   #2
Site Supporter
sholtzma's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Salisbury, NC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,025
Shouldn't this be placed instead in the "Why I will not buy a K-3" thread. ;-)
01-08-2014, 08:13 AM   #3
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,326
I have to confess I really need to practice making a stable platform and a gentle shutter release with my K3. I suppose I've gotten sloppy with the K-01, with which I almost never show motion blur.

I had my finger on the mouse button to hit the K5II at $599 when the UPS guy dropped the Christmas box. I was hesitating because
  • I essentially already have a nice camera with that sensor
  • I like the Prime M image processor, even if only 12-bit
  • I'm sort of holding out for a FF in 2014
Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy I got the camera, but the K3 is so much better than I am.

Last edited by monochrome; 01-08-2014 at 12:53 PM.
01-08-2014, 08:28 AM   #4
Junior Member




Join Date: Aug 2013
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 46
Thats interesting! Also interesting thing is when you go to dxomark and compare new sigma 35 1.4 sharpness chart for k3 and d7100 . When d7100 user see this, he must think if I have blurred images, k3 has to be total mess.



01-08-2014, 08:30 AM   #5
Site Supporter
boriscleto's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool, NY
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,834
24MP isn't evil. Nikon just chose a bad sensor
01-08-2014, 08:44 AM   #6
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 306
This is good news, weakest link with 24pix is photographer. Finally gear development has come to this
01-08-2014, 08:51 AM - 1 Like   #7
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 15,997
QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
24MP isn't evil. Nikon just chose a bad sensor
Well, I certainly haven't seen issues from a personal stand point. The one thing that I would say about the D7100 is that there is quite a bit more banding at high iso than with the Sony sensor in the K3, even though they tested the same in DXO Mark scores (actually the D7100 sensor had a little more DR).

(hand held with DA 15 limited).


01-08-2014, 09:20 AM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 402
QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I've been happily shooting with my K-3 for a while now, in blissful ignorance of a truth known by every Nikon user using the internet...

Did you know that 24MP sensors suck?

Apparently it's impossible to handhold your camera with such a sensor, it has so much resolution that it captures every tiny photographer's movement! Even using the best and sharpest glass there is, most shots turn out having motion blur! D7100 users are looking at the older D7000 with envy.

Amazing.

the only way to avoid this problem (which is setting forums on fire) is to either use a really fast shutter speed or a tripod.

It's also apparently much less if an issue if you use an image stabilized lens, but for some reason Nikon users did not catch up the apparent link between their problem and this simple fact. Maybe because D7100 users tend to get fast, expensive glass, and not all of that glass has stabilization. Users are complaining everywhere about how 24MP is evil, a bad thing, misbehaving and destroying their beautiful images (I'm not kidding). A Nikonian colleague asked me if I had heard of the problem with the K-3 and if I saw it myself. I said no, oblivious to the fact that my camera's sensor should be worse than it is.

Now, my job is optical designer, and I'm pretty good at breaking down problems and seeing possible causes/solutions. In this case, the only main difference between the two systems is the built-in SR in the K-3.

What do you know? It appears that the camera performance we take for granted is actually very hard to obtain with competing systems lacking SR.

I for one find this a tad funny.
Unless the 24mp is on a full frame sensor, oh say like a Sony a900 ( which also was the first DSLR to employ sensor shift stabilization )




Last edited by OldNoob; 01-08-2014 at 09:26 AM.
01-08-2014, 09:43 AM - 1 Like   #9
Pentaxian
MJSfoto1956's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,287
I have had no problems shooting handheld with either the D800, D7100 or K-3 in spite of all the press that you must use a tripod with such systems. My K-3 + 60-250mm vs D800 + AF-S 80-400mm comparison shots are shown elsewhere on this site. Most were handheld. I would say that my own experience with tele lenses is that the K-3 + 60-250mm had more "keepers" handheld than the D800 + 80-400mm at the same settings. Or in other words, if you are having trouble getting sharp images with your gear I would first try to evaluate what you can do to improve your technique (something none of us ever want to hear as advise, but it still is good advise nonetheless). Back in the 1980s we didn't have VR or high ISO so we really learned how to shoot handheld!!!
01-08-2014, 10:42 AM   #10
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 698
If you have any doubts what the K-3 SR can do have a look at this thread:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/247316-handheld-astrophoto...ml#post2635858

Not only are these night photos shot handheld, but from a ship at sea.
01-08-2014, 10:51 AM   #11
Loyal Site Supporter
unkipunki's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Lochaweside, Argyll
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 539
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Well, I certainly haven't seen issues from a personal stand point. The one thing that I would say about the D7100 is that there is quite a bit more banding at high iso than with the Sony sensor in the K3, even though they tested the same in DXO Mark scores (actually the D7100 sensor had a little more DR).

(hand held with DA 15 limited).


1/1600 and f9. You must have had some kind of super bright light source for that one. We used to have something that helped, called the 'sun' if I remember right. We haven't had use of it here since the K-3 became available. I'll reserve judgment on handheld sharpness with my technique until it stops raining.
01-08-2014, 11:06 AM   #12
Forum Member




Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Puget Sound
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 76
QuoteOriginally posted by unkipunki Quote
We used to have something that helped, called the 'sun' if I remember right. We haven't had use of it here since the K-3 became available.
Unkipunki, I received my K3 the other day and like you, its been raining and very dark here in the Seattle area for a few days with little relief in the near future. I look forward to getting out and testing my new camera and grip.
01-08-2014, 12:04 PM   #13
Pentaxian
bdery's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec city, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,794
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by unkipunki Quote
I'll reserve judgment on handheld sharpness with my technique until it stops raining.
Since when has rain stopped a Pentax user?
01-08-2014, 12:21 PM   #14
Pentaxian
Miguel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,725
QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
it has so much resolution that it captures every tiny photographer's movement!
One of the more interesting and influential writers about this is Ming Thein. He is a working photographer who uses the D800e plus other digital sysems with mixed feelings. His essay on the consequences of non-stabilized high resolution and best shooting practices is a great read. I don't totally agree with him but I don't totally disagree either. It may help explain why 24MP could be too much for unsteady shooters.
The rest of his blog writings are worth reading too.

M
01-08-2014, 12:41 PM   #15
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 7,089
QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Since when has rain stopped a Pentax user?
That's right. Only Pentax lenses have invisible shields that prevent blowing rain drops from getting on the front element thereby blurring your picture.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
d7100, dslr, glass, image, k-3, k3, pentax k-3, sensor, sr, stabilization, systems, users
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-3 exchanged ... my image sharpness issue identified & solved penmar Pentax K-3 57 01-10-2014 03:35 AM
Image Stabilization with manual lenses and adapter CDW Pentax K-5 4 06-25-2013 07:33 AM
K-5 Anti-shake (image stabilization) test Skymist Pentax K-5 24 03-26-2012 06:25 AM
Image Stabilization and Focal Length trevorgrout Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 7 04-20-2010 07:40 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:19 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top