In defence of K-3 buttons

audiobomber · 01-20-2014, 08:37 AM - **2 Likes**

Some people have complained that the K-3 uses buttons instead of switches. I have a STRONG preference for buttons, because they can be controlled electronically. For most scenarios, I use Program Shift, Low-speed continuous burst, AF-S, multi-point metering, center point AF, SR on. I have a User mode dedicated to birds in flight BIF, sports, action; TAv, Hi-speed burst, AF-C, center-point metering, expanded AF point, SR off. All I have to do for a BIF opportunity is change the dial to USER1 and I'm ready to shoot.

On the weekend I used my backup K20D, with USER mode set for BIF (TAv mode), but I couldn't set metering, AF-point, AF-mode or SR electronically, because they are on switches. I don't care that much about metering mode, but having to switch the mode dial, AF-point, SR and AF-C switches was aggravating. I had to do it over and over when I thought I'd have a BIF opportunity, then switch back again. Sometimes of course I forgot something. I love the K-3 buttons, I don't want to go back to switches, ever.

Last edited by audiobomber; 01-20-2014 at 08:45 AM.

**Canada_Rockies** · 01-20-2014, 09:31 AM

Good points, Dan. I have only one USER mode on my K10D, and I have it set for my M 400. I wish I had a couple more. The 12-24 takes entirely different settings from everything else, as does the 100/4 macro.

mrNewt · 01-20-2014, 09:38 AM

Buttons are nice and convenient, but they do have a major fault, especially when they are many... is easier to push them by mistake when handling the camera.
Switches... not so easy to move by mistake...

audiobomber · 01-20-2014, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by mrNewt

Buttons are nice and convenient, but they do have a major fault, especially when they are many... is easier to push them by mistake when handling the camera.
Switches... not so easy to move by mistake...

True in general. I have SR on the RAW/JPEG button. It could be activated accidentally, but I have not done so. I had the AF button set to CANCEL AF, but changed it to AF, because that one I was activating accidentally. The AF-point select and AF mode buttons on the K-3 require you to hold the button while turning a control wheel, so not likely to move accidentally.

normhead · 01-20-2014, 10:03 AM

I do find it very difficult to press the AF button, or AF point select button with gloves on. This time of year, that's a recipe for frozen fingers.

audiobomber · 01-20-2014, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by normhead

I do find it very difficult to press the AF button, or AF point select button with gloves on. This time of year, that's a recipe for frozen fingers.

I must have good gloves, haven't had that problem. OTOH turning the AF select ring on the K20D is impossible while wearing gloves.

mrNewt · 01-20-2014, 10:42 AM

I guess in the end is a matter of personal preference and how willing is to adapt to new things.

bdery · 01-20-2014, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

On the weekend I used my backup K20D, with USER mode set for BIF (TAv mode), but I couldn't set metering, AF-point, AF-mode or SR electronically, because they are on switches.

I had never made the connection, but one thing I love about the K-3 is how User modes include so many more settings than on the K20D. Now I understand why. Thanks!

Originally posted by mrNewt

Buttons are nice and convenient, but they do have a major fault, especially when they are many... is easier to push them by mistake when handling the camera.

Lukily the K-3's buttons are not particularly prone to being pressed by mistake.

Originally posted by normhead

I do find it very difficult to press the AF button, or AF point select button with gloves on. This time of year, that's a recipe for frozen fingers.

Get thin gloves inside your larger gloves/mittens. that way you can protect your fingers for even when removing the warmer stuff.

lister6520 · 01-20-2014, 12:19 PM

I think the way buttons are implemented on the K-3 is near perfect, both in terms of placement as well as the feel and responsiveness.

I cannot think of any single thing about them that is 'wrong'. Still there are few things that could make it even better. What I would change if I could would be:
1. Placing the AF mode button in the centre of the AF/MF switch (the same way like the shutter button is in the centre of the power switch)
2. Have two more fully customisable buttons - one instead of the current AF mode button and one in the centre of the video/stills lever.
3. Slightly change the way the AF and metering modes are selected - just make it so the settings don't 'wrap around'. This would make it more predictable to know what mode you are going to without looking at the display, so for instance turning the dial to the right once AF.C is reached it does not go back to AF.A. That way just going all the way right you are sure to select AF.C without having to check the display.
4. I would make the AF and AE-L buttons protrude just a little bit more, though that might perhaps make it too easy to hit by mistake for those who don't use them regularly.
5. I would make the shutter button a little softer to make it easier for shake free handheld photos, just like the trigger on a sniper's is very soft to allow accurate aiming.

bdery · 01-20-2014, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by lister6520

2. Have two more fully customisable buttons - one instead of the current AF mode button and one in the centre of the video/stills lever.

Maybe. But what I would really love would be to have more options for what these buttons can do. THAT would be useful (and can be done via firmware.

Originally posted by lister6520

Slightly change the way the AF and metering modes are selected - just make it so the settings don't 'wrap around'. This would make it more predictable to know what mode you are going to without looking at the display, so for instance turning the dial to the right once AF.C is reached it does not go back to AF.A. That way just going all the way right you are sure to select AF.C without having to check the display.

Interesting idea, I'm thinking about it, pondering if I would like that better. I think I would. Again, firmware can do it.

The FX button (or its relation to the AF button) is my main gripe. They are too easy to confuse, and I find it hard to find the Fx button. Since I set it to light up the top LCD, it's a severe annoyance that I struggle to find it by touch. After all I use it in the dark... Pressing the EV compensation button like on the K20D to light up the LCD could be a good and simple solution (firmware).

The last thing I would change would be to get some feedback when pressing the bottom right button (the one switching between AF selection and short menues). It,s impossible to know which mode is selected except by looking in the viewfinder (my LCD is blank by default, maybe I could try having it lit up by default but I don't think I'd like that). Sometimes I don't want to look in the viewfinder. Just a short feedback on the back LCD, maybe showing the menu options or AF grid for a few seconds, would be fantastic.

It seems everything that bothers me can be fixed via firmware...

**MJSfoto1956** · 01-20-2014, 01:56 PM - **2 Likes**

the number one thing any camera manufacturer can do these days is to document and publicize the APIs that control all functions within the camera. This way third parties can "enhance" the behavior of the system in ways the manufacturer could never dream of. Think what would happen if you could only by Apple software to work with your laptop or iPhone. And witness the "success" the Canon ecosystem is having with hackers "opening up" older Canon models to new features -- it appears that rather than hurting Canon such hacking has instead become a reason to choose Canon! Camera companies are failing precisely because they aren't seeing their systems as "open".

Michael

Steve.Ledger · 01-20-2014, 02:03 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MJSfoto1956

....rather than hurting Canon such hacking has instead become a reason to choose Canon!

Yep, I'm seriously considering picking up a 600D/T3i just so I can use Magic Lantern! It would be great if ML was available for Pentax

novsky · 01-20-2014, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Yep, I'm seriously considering picking up a 600D/T3i just so I can use Magic Lantern! It would be great if ML was available for Pentax

Yeeeesssssss, the Green Lantern

bdery · 01-21-2014, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by MJSfoto1956

the number one thing any camera manufacturer can do these days is to document and publicize the APIs that control all functions within the camera. This way third parties can "enhance" the behavior of the system in ways the manufacturer could never dream of. Think what would happen if you could only by Apple software to work with your laptop or iPhone. And witness the "success" the Canon ecosystem is having with hackers "opening up" older Canon models to new features -- it appears that rather than hurting Canon such hacking has instead become a reason to choose Canon! Camera companies are failing precisely because they aren't seeing their systems as "open".

I agree with this (although not the Apple comment, that company precisely refuses to open their system). I have long found that camera companies are missing the boat on software and connectivity. Even wifi support seems half-hearted. Only Samsung is trying to integrate modern features (like Android) in some of their cameras.

RockvilleBob · 01-21-2014, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by normhead

I do find it very difficult to press the AF button, or AF point select button with gloves on. This time of year, that's a recipe for frozen fingers.

I have the same problem - plus at 68 my circulation in my fingertips is not what it was years ago.
The solution I came up with is handwarmer around my waist, some Hothands warming packets, and a pair of gloves with the shooting forefinger and thumb tips cut off on my right hand (shooting hand) and tip of the glove forefinger on my left hand cut off.
see Amazon.com: Cozy Hand Warming Muff with Inner Warmer Pocket: Sports & Outdoors
I also have a pair of large down filled mittens I can use but the hand warmer combined with hot hands works well for me.
I also keep extra batteries warm in the same hand warmer. The Hothand last over 12 hours and work well.

01-20-2014, 08:37 AM - 2 Likes	#1
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	In defence of K-3 buttons Some people have complained that the K-3 uses buttons instead of switches. I have a STRONG preference for buttons, because they can be controlled electronically. For most scenarios, I use Program Shift, Low-speed continuous burst, AF-S, multi-point metering, center point AF, SR on. I have a User mode dedicated to birds in flight BIF, sports, action; TAv, Hi-speed burst, AF-C, center-point metering, expanded AF point, SR off. All I have to do for a BIF opportunity is change the dial to USER1 and I'm ready to shoot. On the weekend I used my backup K20D, with USER mode set for BIF (TAv mode), but I couldn't set metering, AF-point, AF-mode or SR electronically, because they are on switches. I don't care that much about metering mode, but having to switch the mode dial, AF-point, SR and AF-C switches was aggravating. I had to do it over and over when I thought I'd have a BIF opportunity, then switch back again. Sometimes of course I forgot something. I love the K-3 buttons, I don't want to go back to switches, ever. Last edited by audiobomber; 01-20-2014 at 08:45 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
K-3 in the top 3 best cameras of the year...as per Camera Store	mamethot	Pentax K-3 & K-3 II	3	12-26-2013 05:58 PM
Macro Defence in De Drop!	eaglem	Post Your Photos!	4	09-12-2013 03:31 PM
Zooming in and out of an image using the exposure compensation and green buttons	bwDraco	Pentax K-5 & K-5 II	5	05-15-2012 02:05 PM
Loss of tactile feedback in some buttons	bwDraco	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	3	01-08-2011 07:48 PM
in defence of the tax haters	Gooshin	General Talk	2	11-14-2009 09:44 AM

01-20-2014, 09:31 AM	#2
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Good points, Dan. I have only one USER mode on my K10D, and I have it set for my M 400. I wish I had a couple more. The 12-24 takes entirely different settings from everything else, as does the 100/4 macro.

01-20-2014, 09:38 AM	#3
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Buttons are nice and convenient, but they do have a major fault, especially when they are many... is easier to push them by mistake when handling the camera. Switches... not so easy to move by mistake...

01-20-2014, 10:00 AM	#4
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806 Original Poster	Originally posted by mrNewt Buttons are nice and convenient, but they do have a major fault, especially when they are many... is easier to push them by mistake when handling the camera. Switches... not so easy to move by mistake... True in general. I have SR on the RAW/JPEG button. It could be activated accidentally, but I have not done so. I had the AF button set to CANCEL AF, but changed it to AF, because that one I was activating accidentally. The AF-point select and AF mode buttons on the K-3 require you to hold the button while turning a control wheel, so not likely to move accidentally.

01-20-2014, 10:03 AM	#5
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	I do find it very difficult to press the AF button, or AF point select button with gloves on. This time of year, that's a recipe for frozen fingers.

01-20-2014, 10:40 AM	#6
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806 Original Poster	Originally posted by normhead I do find it very difficult to press the AF button, or AF point select button with gloves on. This time of year, that's a recipe for frozen fingers. I must have good gloves, haven't had that problem. OTOH turning the AF select ring on the K20D is impossible while wearing gloves.

01-20-2014, 10:42 AM	#7
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	I guess in the end is a matter of personal preference and how willing is to adapt to new things.

01-20-2014, 11:05 AM	#8
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Originally posted by audiobomber On the weekend I used my backup K20D, with USER mode set for BIF (TAv mode), but I couldn't set metering, AF-point, AF-mode or SR electronically, because they are on switches. I had never made the connection, but one thing I love about the K-3 is how User modes include so many more settings than on the K20D. Now I understand why. Thanks! Originally posted by mrNewt Buttons are nice and convenient, but they do have a major fault, especially when they are many... is easier to push them by mistake when handling the camera. Lukily the K-3's buttons are not particularly prone to being pressed by mistake. Originally posted by normhead I do find it very difficult to press the AF button, or AF point select button with gloves on. This time of year, that's a recipe for frozen fingers. Get thin gloves inside your larger gloves/mittens. that way you can protect your fingers for even when removing the warmer stuff.

01-20-2014, 12:19 PM	#9
lister6520 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 733	I think the way buttons are implemented on the K-3 is near perfect, both in terms of placement as well as the feel and responsiveness. I cannot think of any single thing about them that is 'wrong'. Still there are few things that could make it even better. What I would change if I could would be: 1. Placing the AF mode button in the centre of the AF/MF switch (the same way like the shutter button is in the centre of the power switch) 2. Have two more fully customisable buttons - one instead of the current AF mode button and one in the centre of the video/stills lever. 3. Slightly change the way the AF and metering modes are selected - just make it so the settings don't 'wrap around'. This would make it more predictable to know what mode you are going to without looking at the display, so for instance turning the dial to the right once AF.C is reached it does not go back to AF.A. That way just going all the way right you are sure to select AF.C without having to check the display. 4. I would make the AF and AE-L buttons protrude just a little bit more, though that might perhaps make it too easy to hit by mistake for those who don't use them regularly. 5. I would make the shutter button a little softer to make it easier for shake free handheld photos, just like the trigger on a sniper's is very soft to allow accurate aiming.

01-20-2014, 01:23 PM	#10
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Originally posted by lister6520 2. Have two more fully customisable buttons - one instead of the current AF mode button and one in the centre of the video/stills lever. Maybe. But what I would really love would be to have more options for what these buttons can do. THAT would be useful (and can be done via firmware. Originally posted by lister6520 Slightly change the way the AF and metering modes are selected - just make it so the settings don't 'wrap around'. This would make it more predictable to know what mode you are going to without looking at the display, so for instance turning the dial to the right once AF.C is reached it does not go back to AF.A. That way just going all the way right you are sure to select AF.C without having to check the display. Interesting idea, I'm thinking about it, pondering if I would like that better. I think I would. Again, firmware can do it. The FX button (or its relation to the AF button) is my main gripe. They are too easy to confuse, and I find it hard to find the Fx button. Since I set it to light up the top LCD, it's a severe annoyance that I struggle to find it by touch. After all I use it in the dark... Pressing the EV compensation button like on the K20D to light up the LCD could be a good and simple solution (firmware). The last thing I would change would be to get some feedback when pressing the bottom right button (the one switching between AF selection and short menues). It,s impossible to know which mode is selected except by looking in the viewfinder (my LCD is blank by default, maybe I could try having it lit up by default but I don't think I'd like that). Sometimes I don't want to look in the viewfinder. Just a short feedback on the back LCD, maybe showing the menu options or AF grid for a few seconds, would be fantastic. It seems everything that bothers me can be fixed via firmware...

01-20-2014, 01:56 PM - 2 Likes	#11
MJSfoto1956 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Boston Posts: 1,305	the number one thing any camera manufacturer can do these days is to document and publicize the APIs that control all functions within the camera. This way third parties can "enhance" the behavior of the system in ways the manufacturer could never dream of. Think what would happen if you could only by Apple software to work with your laptop or iPhone. And witness the "success" the Canon ecosystem is having with hackers "opening up" older Canon models to new features -- it appears that rather than hurting Canon such hacking has instead become a reason to choose Canon! Camera companies are failing precisely because they aren't seeing their systems as "open". Michael

01-20-2014, 02:03 PM - 1 Like	#12
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by MJSfoto1956 ....rather than hurting Canon such hacking has instead become a reason to choose Canon! Yep, I'm seriously considering picking up a 600D/T3i just so I can use Magic Lantern! It would be great if ML was available for Pentax

01-20-2014, 04:01 PM	#13
novsky Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 63	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Yep, I'm seriously considering picking up a 600D/T3i just so I can use Magic Lantern! It would be great if ML was available for Pentax Yeeeesssssss, the Green Lantern

01-21-2014, 06:04 AM	#14
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Originally posted by MJSfoto1956 the number one thing any camera manufacturer can do these days is to document and publicize the APIs that control all functions within the camera. This way third parties can "enhance" the behavior of the system in ways the manufacturer could never dream of. Think what would happen if you could only by Apple software to work with your laptop or iPhone. And witness the "success" the Canon ecosystem is having with hackers "opening up" older Canon models to new features -- it appears that rather than hurting Canon such hacking has instead become a reason to choose Canon! Camera companies are failing precisely because they aren't seeing their systems as "open". I agree with this (although not the Apple comment, that company precisely refuses to open their system). I have long found that camera companies are missing the boat on software and connectivity. Even wifi support seems half-hearted. Only Samsung is trying to integrate modern features (like Android) in some of their cameras.

01-21-2014, 06:16 AM	#15
RockvilleBob Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lewes DE USA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,780	Originally posted by normhead I do find it very difficult to press the AF button, or AF point select button with gloves on. This time of year, that's a recipe for frozen fingers. I have the same problem - plus at 68 my circulation in my fingertips is not what it was years ago. The solution I came up with is handwarmer around my waist, some Hothands warming packets, and a pair of gloves with the shooting forefinger and thumb tips cut off on my right hand (shooting hand) and tip of the glove forefinger on my left hand cut off. see Amazon.com: Cozy Hand Warming Muff with Inner Warmer Pocket: Sports & Outdoors I also have a pair of large down filled mittens I can use but the hand warmer combined with hot hands works well for me. I also keep extra batteries warm in the same hand warmer. The Hothand last over 12 hours and work well.