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02-19-2014, 05:49 PM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I think only Panasonic makes cameras that are rugged and have an articulated screen.
Olympus has been putting articulated screens on their rugged, weather sealed (on par with Pentax) flagship cameras ever since the E-3 way back in 2007.

02-22-2014, 12:29 PM   #137
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- 50i FA 50 1.4
- 60i DA Limited 35 2.8

Take a look at the railings on the ships bridge, something is very wrong the the way camera renders them.
02-22-2014, 01:47 PM   #138
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^^ Stagnant, haven't tried the K-3 for video yet, but by the looks of it my Samsung Note 3 takes better movies.

This is at 1080p 30fps. Not the 4K the telephone thing can do. Still trying to figure out all the settings. It does automatically focus and adjust ev and wotnot.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56053365@N07/12705097804/?likes_hd=1

Last edited by Parry; 02-22-2014 at 02:47 PM.
02-22-2014, 03:11 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stagnant Quote
Eckerö Line MS Finlandia departure from Tallinn 19.02.2014. - YouTube - 50i FA 50 1.4
Eckerö Line MS Finlandia departure from Tallinn 20.02.2014 - YouTube - 60i DA Limited 35 2.8

Take a look at the railings on the ships bridge, something is very wrong the the way camera renders them.
It's moire and aliasing,

In most implementations where a CCD/CMOS sensor intended for stills is used for video this is inevitable because only alternate pixels are used leaving large gaps between pixels recorded. A better way of doing it would be to capture all the pixels and then scaling down but I don't know if there is any SLR that does that.


Last edited by lister6520; 02-22-2014 at 03:33 PM.
02-22-2014, 03:39 PM   #140
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- this one was shot using the 18-55 kit lens. Shows considerably less artifacts.
02-22-2014, 04:07 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Clean HDMI out doesn't sound like a huge issue for them to fix, though who knows.
...
Then again, Nikon uses more or less the same processors as Pentax does, just with a new name (and some more input from Nikon).
Clean HDMI out probably requires special circuitry to buffer the output of the chip (if it supports it) and/or encode it as whatever format (if it doesn't). It's not going to be simply a firmware update (or I'd bet there's less than a 1% chance).

The processor issue is again why Pentax will be marching w/ whatever Nikon is doing, but lagged by 6 months as usual because they have different release cycles
But just MHO as usual.

I would be nice to see pentax add their selectable AA filter to video. That might be doable in firmware and is the only reason I can think of them disabling mechanical SR in video and would give them a market advantage for situations like that cruise ship railing.

p.s., I was disappointed to see that the Panny GH4K also no longer downsamples the entire chip...they do pixel cropping now because of the 4K resolution so there aren't enough pixels to downsample.
02-22-2014, 10:23 PM   #142
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@Stagnant: Can you upload a 10 second video like that, original file, on Dropbox or something like that? I would like to run it through my deinterlacer, because to me that (at least in parts) looks like it's only because of the interlacing. I'd like to see what the best deinterlacer i could find can do with it. Of course I'd upload the file too. Also, try filming at 30p or something like that. See how it holds up then. Is there any moire/anti aliasing issue? You haven't mentioned it, but I think that 18-55 sample is 30p, isn't it? I think that is the reason why it doesn't look that ugly. I do see plenty of aliasing and moire though... :-/

@lister6520 and kenyee:
The thing is: The D5200 had beautiful video, and the D5300 even improves on that. There is no moire/anti aliasing. They do pixel binning, though not for the complete sensor (so maybe they read out 4 or 8 MP and scale it down to 2 MP, instead of only reading 2 MP in the first place). Nikon is, it seems, using the same sensor as Pentax does, and the same processor (with some enhancements?) as Pentax does. However the D5300 creates 50p/60p, it does support higher bitrates (I believe 38 Mbps max?), and it has a clean HDMI output. Mind you, that is their CONSUMER offering. It's their K-50 competitor. The question is now: What on earth will their D7200 do, which is closer to the K-3 (though it IMHO can't match it, at least IMHO the K-5 was a higher end, a more professional camera than the D7100). By how much does the Pentax and the Nikon hardware differ? Or what is firmware only?

As for a selectable AA for video, I don't think that could be done. I think you'd need much more sensor movement for that, and then there'd probably be noise too.

@kenyee: That'd be bad news. Never thought about that. And a mode that completely deactivates all on screen information? Though that would make usage a bit hard... Or perhaps only show the settings on the camera screen, and give a clean output to the HDMI port... in that case you would have to use an external recorder with monitor, but if you're serious that might not be a bad idea anyway.

They do cropping in 4K, but I guess they'd still do binning in 1080?
QuoteQuote:
My feedback to Panasonic was to give us the full sensor 4.6K readout and let us scale it to 4K in post as the reduced sensor size is perhaps a little disappointing. I’m told Panasonic had much internal discussion over whether to take a 1:1 pixel readout of the sensor for 4K video, or to take the full sensor and scale (zoom) it down. The latter technique entails a drop of image quality because we’re back to pixel binning again. In the end they used the same technique as Canon on the 1D C – optimal image quality, reduced recording area – and it seems to pay off looking at the output.
http://www.eoshd.com/content/11934/panasonic-gh4-preview


So there shouldn't be a moire or aliasing problem since it doesn't skip lines. The major problem I think is that the small sensor is further cropped, which might make it hard to get proper wide angle shots etc.

Last edited by kadajawi; 02-22-2014 at 10:32 PM.
02-23-2014, 04:39 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
@Stagnant: Can you upload a 10 second video like that, original file, on Dropbox or something like that? I would like to run it through my deinterlacer, because to me that (at least in parts) looks like it's only because of the interlacing. I'd like to see what the best deinterlacer i could find can do with it. Of course I'd upload the file too. Also, try filming at 30p or something like that. See how it holds up then. Is there any moire/anti aliasing issue? You haven't mentioned it, but I think that 18-55 sample is 30p, isn't it? I think that is the reason why it doesn't look that ugly. I do see plenty of aliasing and moire though... :-
I can do that. The 18-50 is indeed 30 FPS.

---------- Post added 02-23-14 at 01:55 PM ----------

30 Second sample


Last edited by Stagnant; 02-23-2014 at 04:45 AM.
02-23-2014, 08:28 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The question is now: What on earth will their D7200 do, which is closer to the K-3 (though it IMHO can't match it, at least IMHO the K-5 was a higher end, a more professional camera than the D7100). By how much does the Pentax and the Nikon hardware differ?
Hardware is totally different at this level of design, so firmware would also be totally different. I have an embedded firmware/hardware background in a previous career so I think I have a fairly good sense of what's inside.

The D5300 are newer so they most likely use different video processing chips than the D7100/K3 do. If the K3's video chip were capable of 60p, I'm not sure why they would have left it out unless their design didn't work w/ that bandwidth or they had to cut it before release because of excessive noise issues.
I suspect it's because of the newer chips which is the usual reason for stuff like this. It'll come because video is where people are pushing now...you just have to hope Nikon pushes the edge more because Pentax will follow them instead of Canon/Panny/Sony
02-23-2014, 11:18 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Hardware is totally different at this level of design, so firmware would also be totally different. I have an embedded firmware/hardware background in a previous career so I think I have a fairly good sense of what's inside.

The D5300 are newer so they most likely use different video processing chips than the D7100/K3 do. If the K3's video chip were capable of 60p, I'm not sure why they would have left it out unless their design didn't work w/ that bandwidth or they had to cut it before release because of excessive noise issues.
I suspect it's because of the newer chips which is the usual reason for stuff like this. It'll come because video is where people are pushing now...you just have to hope Nikon pushes the edge more because Pentax will follow them instead of Canon/Panny/Sony
Ok, makes sense. Though the K-3 is supposed to use the latest and greatest chip, based probably on the latest and greatest from Fujitsu. And so is the Nikon. Though the Nikon is I believe a custom chip, based on what Fujitsu has developed, so I guess they have improved it.

In any case, Nikon seems to be pushing towards better video.
02-23-2014, 04:49 PM   #146
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What a shame, that is ugly video IQ from the 'flagship Pentax'
They made such a thing about professional video when the K-3 was announced, but it just isn't is it. It almost seems like it's deliberately crippled.

(@stagnant: Thanks for posting btw. Aside from disappointing Pentax VIQ, very nice clips)
02-23-2014, 09:40 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
What a shame, that is ugly video IQ from the 'flagship Pentax'
They made such a thing about professional video when the K-3 was announced, but it just isn't is it. It almost seems like it's deliberately crippled.

(@stagnant: Thanks for posting btw. Aside from disappointing Pentax VIQ, very nice clips)
I don't think it's that rubbish. It must be the interlacing. YouTube could at least try to deinterlace quickly... Look at his 30p sample (18-55), that looks fine, apart from the moire and anti aliasing But it seems better than my K-5 in those regards. Of course the problem is that if you take away the IBIS you are left with a camera that has decent-ish video quality with a high price tag that can shoot in the rain... in a world where you can have a camera with great video quality at half the price... with the only major disadvantage of not being weather sealed. With the IBIS the K-3 would have something that some may push people to Pentax, as they can't have that with Nikon or Canon.

This is an example I've found on the EOSHD forum, posted by skiphunt. He says the footage was not graded, just auto color balance, some sharpening and a bit of stabilizing in FCP. The lens used also has a stabilizer.

I think that footage is flawless. Sometimes you see some problems due to the additional FCP stabilizing, but it's pretty good. A K-3 couldn't get anywhere near it, because there is no optical stabilization at all (the body doesn't want to do it, and there are (almost?) no stabilized lenses. At least Nikon users have the OPTION, even though they need to use more expensive lenses).
02-24-2014, 03:22 AM   #148
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Another observation : K-3 freezes for a second or so, when the lens is zoomed. It is not so obvious when looking at the video, but some slight lag is still present.
02-24-2014, 03:46 AM   #149
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Yes, from what I've seen so far, the K-3 can't touch the D5300 for VIQ. But I don't know enough about this Nikon system, does it have the features most commonly asked for by videographers? It is better than the 650D/700D when you take into account the Magic Lantern firmware enhancements?
02-24-2014, 03:56 AM   #150
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Phew. I'm also not that familiar with the D5300. It seems to be rather frustrating as a videographers tool, like not being able to change the aperture when in live view (so I guess it also can't change the aperture while recording?). I guess that's a hardware limitation. Other limitations are for example not getting a dedicated video mode (I guess you just press the rec button, however that means there is no 16:9 matte before you start recording). In terms of controls I wouldn't be surprised if the K-3 is better. Though the D5300 has a flip out screen. Personally I think if you can afford it, wait for the D7200. It will have better lens support, I'd guess it will have the same sensor and processor (or a better version), so video quality will be great. But since it is a more professional camera it will have more of the controls you'd want. Hopefully.

In terms of features though I don't think there is any chance of beating Magic Lantern.

If only Magic Lantern would work for Pentax...

Why would it freeze when zooming? Weird. For the K-5 the SR stutters when you change the focal length...

Last edited by kadajawi; 02-24-2014 at 04:08 AM.
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